mpiotro Posted December 1, 2010 Author Share Posted December 1, 2010 I have to double check the attached flow sheet, but I want to say it pushes ~290-300lph at 65psi when running at 60% of max speed. This is considered "continuous duty" which is safe to run 100% of the time. It will push significantly more at max pump speed but is not recommended to be run at max speed. A few folks wired them up at 100% and experienced failures in ~1 year. Since it does pump a ton of fuel, that is why I'd like to mimic the factory fuel pump duty cycles. As much as it kills me to admit this, Rao is probably right, factory pump duty is EVAP related, not supply/demand related. However, I'm not adding a level of sophistication that is not already in the factory system; I'm just wanting to do it for a different reason than EVAP. The concept here is build the motor and fuel system to support 600WHP and I will be loafing along at 400WHP. Yes it cost me a good bit more, but I know I have dramatically reduced my chances of a lean event or pump failure. GTTuner- there is a guy who runs this pump in line and reports it is significantly quieter than his intank Bosch 044 was. Mine is intank, so I think pump noise should be a non-issue. But I'll try to update once system is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 just use a walbro and save yourself a headache My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpiotro Posted December 2, 2010 Author Share Posted December 2, 2010 mwiener- thanks for your opinion about Walbro being good enough. I have posted numerous times why I chose not to use another Walbro. Please go away now and dirty up somebody else's thread, since your post is not relevant to any of my PWM issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 o why yes master builder My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I love Fireworks. Anyone got cheese for the burgers? I'm gonna be camping out for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Sorry I am late to the thread. Just thought I would share some pictures of the set up. Andy has worked his bum off on this and the results speak for themselves. It seems there are some issues at this point with the factory ecu controlling this due to some pwm issues. With a fuel pump controller it would be solved easily. We tried one solution and it did not work as expected. One nice part about this set up is that you could use a pump for just about any fuel needs. That and it eliminates the need for dual pumps. While it is not as simple as a single in tank Walbro, if someone were to have a large upgraded rotated set up and wanted to run E85, this would be a great single pump set up. The car was plumbed with hard line from front to back including some very nice Fuel Lab filters and a Weldon fuel pressure regulator. This is a solid system, it just seems that the fuel pump is not happy with the factory fuel pump pwm signal. I do NOT think this is a replacement for a drop in pump. But, for those wanting to move some serious fuel, this set up is pretty decent. It IS loud. But we knew that going into this. You are not going to get a pump that supports 1000-1500 hp that is going to be nice and quiet like the factory pump. Was this system massive overkill? Yeah it was. But it is ready in the event that he ever wants to go with a big rotated set up. At this point we are exploring another option for fuel pump control as we have a Sti and a hybrid WRX that will be making in excess of 500 awhp that are going to be running E85 and will be using this kind of pump. We may go with a surge tank, we may go with an in tank. http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/sargmike/Andys%20Work/Intank3.jpg http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/sargmike/Andys%20Work/Intank2.jpg http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/sargmike/Andys%20Work/Intank1.jpg http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/sargmike/Andys%20Work/IMG00034-20101204-1725.jpg http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu290/sargmike/Andys%20Work/IMG00033-20101204-1724.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 http://wrxatlanta.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2288&d=1290370900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 It seems there are some issues at this point with the factory ecu controlling this due to some pwm issues. With a fuel pump controller it would be solved easily. We tried one solution and it did not work as expected. Can you elaborate on the PWM issues? If it would help, I can provide a table definition for A2WC522N (05 LGT) ROMs that will allow you to change the factory "low" and "medium" duty levels from 33% and 66% to whatever you want. I haven't figured out how to change the conditions in which it switches between 0/low/medium/100 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 It is actually a difference in the signal itself from my understanding. The htz pwm signal from the factory controller is too low for the fuel pump. We are looking into some solutions such as amplifiers and such right now for future builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 so now that there are 2 "drop in" fuel pumps that flow significantly more than the crappy old walbro 255 HP.... where does that put this project? My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Same place it was before. Those pumps could not keep up with these. 2 of them might, but then you are right back in the same boat of having to use 2 pumps. Some people, myself included, don't like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Guys is there not an equivalent bosch fuel pump that has the same connector and physical dimensions as the OEM fuel pump that flows more or equivalent to a walbro? Might be a good idea to check the bosch catalog: http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/BOSCH_Fuel_Pump_WEB.pdf Or how about this Process West external surge tank setup with a 044 pump? http://www.processwest.com.au/website/prod_subaru/pw_p_fuelantisurge.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowKeyGT Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Can you elaborate on the PWM issues? If it would help, I can provide a table definition for A2WC522N (05 LGT) ROMs that will allow you to change the factory "low" and "medium" duty levels from 33% and 66% to whatever you want. I haven't figured out how to change the conditions in which it switches between 0/low/medium/100 though. Not sure if this helps any but, the ECM controls the pump through the fuel pump controller based off of the crankshaft position sensor signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowKeyGT Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 From what i can gather the ecm looks at the engine rpm and dictates 0,33,66 or 100%. One day next week I can scope the crank sensor and watch the output signal from the fuel pump control unit and see what the correlation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integroid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Guys is there not an equivalent bosch fuel pump that has the same connector and physical dimensions as the OEM fuel pump that flows more or equivalent to a walbro? Might be a good idea to check the bosch catalog: http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/BOSCH_Fuel_Pump_WEB.pdf Or how about this Process West external surge tank setup with a 044 pump? http://www.processwest.com.au/website/prod_subaru/pw_p_fuelantisurge.htm No, if there was, it would have been found over a decade ago because the majority of the imports use the same size pump. The best thing you have now are the two 300lph pumps that came out from DW and Aeromotive. Like I said in the other thread, the link to the surge tank you have won't work on our cars unless you went with a single exit exhuast ont he driver side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integroid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 From what i can gather the ecm looks at the engine rpm and dictates 0,33,66 or 100%. One day next week I can scope the crank sensor and watch the output signal from the fuel pump control unit and see what the correlation is. The problem isnt what the ecu is sending to the Fuel Labs pump, it is the frequency it is sending it at. The fuels labs pump requires a certain frequency for it to work. If you have an AEM EMS, this isnt a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowKeyGT Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 The problem isnt what the ecu is sending to the Fuel Labs pump, it is the frequency it is sending it at. The fuels labs pump requires a certain frequency for it to work. If you have an AEM EMS, this isnt a problem. That previous post was for NSFW, on what the conditions are for 0,33,66 or 100% Do you think that a simple transistor amplifier between the controller and the fuel labs pump would work, if we knew what the exact frequency range of the stock pump and the fuel labs pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
integroid Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I believe the OP knows these values and think he tried to get Lebonte to build one with no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarg Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 He sent off the controller to Fuel Labs to see why it didn't work. Awaiting results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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