SBT Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 For me I cant imagine a SMFW being that bad its surely not that bad on the WRX??? Anyway its more of an issue with performance for me as the DMFW is spongy, or as you call it "silky smooth" and WEIGHS nearly twice that of a light single mass. can you confirm the weight of the DMFW? Where the WRX SMFW setup 'shines' is it is lighter by ~5 lbs versus the stock DMFW and, as I previously mentioned, grips well. Where it 'sucks' is that it moves the engagement point well up in the clutch stroke (almost completely to the top of the stroke) and because it's not "damped" ANY gear lash (on-or-off throttle), hard-point connections to the transmission or other vibration points WILL vibrate. I never felt that the stock setup engagement was spongy, but I did benignly expect that with higher power levels (and towing) that the SMFW setup was the better option. I've completely disabused myself of that idea. For those who are going mad-power, than there are tradeoffs to make, including clutch decisions, but for those at stage 1 and even 2+, think the stocker is the better solution, provided it's properly broken in. YMMV - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZGT Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Mines getting a WRX flywheel and Exedy HD clutch next Wednesday, I'll let you know how it goes The reasons I'm doing it is the stock setup feels sloppy and I like the simple setup of SMFW. I've driven WRX's and prefer the more direct feel. Smooth rides are for old men Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 ^ Good luck. btw there's a reason why we got to be old men. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteyjr Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I drove the WRX yesterday (owned now by my evil twin). Two minutes later the LGT. Clutch feel is completely different. Engagement point is way smoother on the Leggy among other things. The fact that I daily drive my LGT and encounter some traffic makes me favor the Dual mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Tell me whats the difference between an 07 SMFW and the WRX one? Because if the DMFW stuff your all saying about smooth engagement and stuff like that was true, then I really don't think Subaru would have swapped back to the SMFW like they did on 07+. Mine is smooth engaging and I have a stock clutch right now. I'm replacing it with an Exedy OEM Subaru on soon though since it does have 105k on it and I plan on going stage2 soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZGT Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 ^^^ are the USDM 07+ 6sp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 07 LGT is not a 6 speed, unless a spec.b they just did not come with a DMFW... Thats why I'm asking why is a WRX clutch so "rough" as noted... Is it simply the SMFW configuration? and if so then why would subaru switch from the smoother DMFW back to the SMFW if this was true... Unless they realized how bad it was cost wise even if it was smoother. I read some articles online about other DMFW's in other cars and how they can wear out and cause a bad knocking noise, and need replacement, and obviously this is before a standard SMFW would need replacement. Also from what I've read the DMFW is there to absorb the shock yes, but at the same time thats why they spring the clutch hub on a standard clutch, and what I have not been able to find out is if a Legacy with the DMFW ALSO has the sprung clutch disc... If so then I can definitely see how the engagement would be much smoother, but at the same time if the WRX SMFW has a sprung disc just like mine then they should feel no different, if the WRX is a SMFW and Un-sprung disc, then yeah it would be rather rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 The 06 LGT DMFW clutch disc is "sprung". Fact. Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I know I'm going to switch back to the OEM dual mass unit if I ever pull my trans. I can live with rougher engagement over stock, but the nasty noise under deceleration is way too much for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 What nasty noises do you have? And being that both the flywheel and disc are sprung then that may definitely be the reason why the 05-06's have a soft engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 "Search" is your friend. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/just-fyi-photo-comparison-dual-mass-vs-single-mass-flywheels-129928.html http://www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/DualMassvsSolidFW.htm Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 The 06 LGT DMFW clutch disc is "sprung". Fact. Yep - looking at mine right now and it is definitely a sprung disc. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blameless Posted November 5, 2010 Author Share Posted November 5, 2010 So is the better option to go with an 07 single mass LGT flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Depends on who you ask. I'm completely happy with my setup and the clutch I'm putting in is a complete OEM disc and plate, I've also talked to an 05 owner and he said you loose some drivetrain/clutch feel with the DMFW. But then some like it that way. I simply asked my questions because so many people seemed so specific as to using a WRX flywheel, and never mentioned that you can use an 07 Legacy one since they are exactly the same... Which is also the same reason why I asked my question because I'm very surprised that many found the single mass flywheel to rough of engagement... But then again it really does depend on which clutch you buy. If you get a stock one I'm sure it would be fine, but if you go get some race ready setup for the SMFW I can understand why it would engage rough... That's the nature of a race type clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 The ACT HD setup is not a race-ready clutch by any stretch of the imagination. It's basically a stage II (increased torque/horsepower capability), but definitely not a rev it, dump it and blast away clutch. Other than launch (which is where I always get the chatter) and the increased "push" it requires to engage/disengage, the clutch's downside are the roughness, chatter, NVH, and saying it again, "noise". You'd really need to get to a stage III+ with an unsprung puck clutch for this to be race-ready IME. - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Ok, maybe I stretched a little using the word race, but still Getting an Act HD setup is far beyond stock and it's natural for any clutch of that strength and design to simply chatter some since the disc is made from a different material. I guess you can really say that "noises" will come when you use aftermarket performance parts in that area. Just the nature of the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefaru Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I'll throw this one up again... Has anyone replaced an '05 DMFY an '07 SMFW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-BGTLimited Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 According to the links above, ANYONE who has used a WRX SMFW has done that swap. A SM WRX FW is the same as an 07+ LGT one. You just need to use the flywheel and clutch assy as a whole, you can't mix and match FW's with clutches for DM setups, it needs to be SMFW clutches that you use... and IIRC the same with the throwout bearing but I could be wrong those may be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZGT Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I get my SMFW and Exedy HD clutch done tomorrow, I honestly can't see it being any different to drive than a stock WRX which is fine IMO I guess there are people out there who say Bilsteins are too firm and then I pulled mine out and had them re-valved 20% firmer and they still feel too soft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blameless Posted November 11, 2010 Author Share Posted November 11, 2010 I get my SMFW and Exedy HD clutch done tomorrow, I honestly can't see it being any different to drive than a stock WRX which is fine IMO I guess there are people out there who say Bilsteins are too firm and then I pulled mine out and had them re-valved 20% firmer and they still feel too soft.... I am dying to know what difference you find. Also the cost of the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZGT Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 ^^^ me too! I had to postpone it till next week due to work commitments this week On a side note, have you had any issues with your JDM Bilstein's? I had my fronts rebuilt and the rears replaced with new items at 50,000kms, the fronts had shaft play and the whole car was way too soft for my liking so i had all 4 corners revalved 20% firmer both ways. I also added some Cobb springs which only lowered the car around 20mm all round. Now after 25,000kms driving I have noticed a knock in the left rear, which could be a bush, but if it's the 25,000km old shock I'll be pretty pissed off! Everywhere I read how Bilstein are meant the best all I've had is problems. I've had Koni and Tein coilovers in other cars and never had issues. My last set of Tein Colivers were in a car for 100,000kms and are still perfect! /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blameless Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 I have a rear for sale if your interested? I swapped mine out for Tein's... A bloke I know took out his front that was knocking bad. Turned out to be simply that the rubber that wraps the spring at the bottom end had wriggled out and the knocking was just the steel spring hitting the steel spring seat. Easy fix in the end. Lift your car, Get under and take a look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blameless Posted November 13, 2010 Author Share Posted November 13, 2010 PS go Tein ;-) no regrets here! The car handles awesome now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZGT Posted November 13, 2010 Share Posted November 13, 2010 How much did you get your Teins for and where? I'm not happy with the way my car handles, but I've spent a lot on the Bilsteins so don't really want to keep spending My old Altezza Gita 3L with Tein coilovers rides and handles so well (my wife drives it now), everytime I drive it I want to do my Legacy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blameless Posted November 14, 2010 Author Share Posted November 14, 2010 I got them off Tradme. $650 from an importer looking to return an imported LGT to standard. They were IMACULATE... I seriously could not believe I got them so cheap. There are loads of importers in Auckland so just go door knocking and offer yours as a swap for some Teins when a car with them comes in. Thats a long wait option but a cheap bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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