Going from WRX to new Legacy

[StoplightAssassin]

The Spec B (at least for 2009) used summer performance tires. And frankly, that car performed only marginally better than a 2010 LGT. And even then it wasn't better in every category.

 

right and a spec b is only marginally better than a 4th gen GT. I'm saying the difference in performance is all in the tires. any car driving on summer tires immediately has an advantage over the same or similar car on all seasons

[PeteWK]

right and a spec b is only marginally better than a 4th gen GT. I'm saying the difference in performance is all in the tires. any car driving on summer tires immediately has an advantage over the same or similar car on all seasons

 

I get the tire thing. I'm saying that the Gen 4 is a Luxo Civic. It was never in the midsize class. It was like Subaru Execs sat around clicking their heals together "there's no place like home, there's no place like home". Wishing don't make it so.

 

Geez, a small car will always have an advantage over a car one class up. It's like you're saying the Gen 5 Legacy GT is crap because it can't out-corner a Corvette. OMG, it must be a piece of crap! No, it's in a completely different class of cars. The Gen 4 is not and never was a midsize car, period.

 

And if you like even comparos check out Consumer Reports. When they test a bunch of cars, they put all the same kind of tires on the them.

 

I am sorry Subaru chose to put lousy tires on it, I really am. But thems the breaks of the game.

[StoplightAssassin]

I get the tire thing. I'm saying that the Gen 4 is a Luxo Civic. It was never in the midsize class. It was like Subaru Execs sat around clicking their heals together "there's no place like home, there's no place like home". Wishing don't make it so.

 

Geez, a small car will always have an advantage over a car one class up. It's like you're saying the Gen 5 Legacy GT is crap because it can't out-corner a Corvette. OMG, it must be a piece of crap! No, it's in a completely different class of cars. The Gen 4 is not and never was a midsize car, period.

 

And if you like even comparos check out Consumer Reports. When they test a bunch of cars, they put all the same kind of tires on the them.

 

I am sorry Subaru chose to put lousy tires on it, I really am. But thems the breaks of the game.

 

I'm not going to start a flame war with you. You're really reaching for things and you're in defense mode. Despite its nomenclature, not once did I call the BM a piece of crap, nor did I say anything bad about it at all.

 

My point was/is, given the same or similar tires, a BM will not "run circles around" a BP/BL. The two generations of the cars' performance stock for stock will be very similar.

[krzyss]

and one point: some people prefer smaller cars, minority as sales number indicate.

 

Krzys

[PeteWK]

I'm not going to start a flame war with you. You're really reaching for things and you're in defense mode. Despite its nomenclature, not once did I call the BM a piece of crap, nor did I say anything bad about it at all.

 

My point was/is, given the same or similar tires, a BM will not "run circles around" a BP/BL. The two generations of the cars' performance stock for stock will be very similar.

 

I'm not trying to flame you or dis the Gen 4 car so I'll be kind. The Gen 4 Legacy GT / Spec B was great for what it was, a small high performance 4 door sedan. No contention from me there.

 

As for your argument, I don't think you understand what you're really saying. Boiled down your claim is that if you could just spend 700-1000 dollars (cost of good summer tires) it would then be on par with the Gen 5 car. Does that mean I get to spend a like amount on sway bars or exhaust improvements or computer upgrades or whatever to counter your claim? Frankly, I could say that about any car, "Man, this here car is way better than that there car; that is to say, after I get to dump some big dollars into it and make it what I think it should have been from the factory, but wasn't." That just doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

Both cars came from Subaru exactly as the company intended and there's nothing you or I can do about it. If you have some issue with that don't get on my case or posit hypotheticals, rather please forward your complaints to Subaru USA for doing that to buyers, and then the Automotive Press for pointing out the obvious.

 

Also note that with those magical Summer tires the Spec B car STILL braked worse than a Gen 5 car and handling was only .01 or .02 better on the skid pad (depends on who's testing you like). And put me down in the group of people who place most of the credit to a (nearly) completely different front suspension system rather than tires.

 

Pete

[StoplightAssassin]

I'm by no means complaining. I'm just making a point that when comparing a car on all-seasons to a car on summers, the car on summer tires has a huge advantage.

 

Putting on different tires other than OEM is hardly considered modifying a car. Sure BP/BL owners can go out and spend "$700 - 1000" for a good set of summer rubber, but BM GT owners have to purchase a second set of tires if they wish to not be embarrassed b/c their car is completely unsafe in cold or snowy conditions while driving on the OEM summer tires. So while I may have had to buy summer tires, you have to buy winter tires, so it's a moot point.

 

You can compare numbers all you want. I don't know why you think the Spec B is some awesome, super high performance machine. It's not. I never made it out to be. It's a little better than the GT performance wise. My only real reason to get one would be for the STi running gear. Just don't read Vimy's posts.

 

I really don't care about how many hundredths of a second some magazine recorded for a car. WTF is the purpose of a skidpad? Who drives in a huge, flat circle as fast as they can? How many slaloms do you hit on your way to work?

[vkchu]

i much prefer the looks of the 05-09 vs the 10.

 

to the op: maybe you want to pick up a used prev gen lgt?

sounds like you def want to modify whatever you get.

lots more stuff/support/history avail for prev gen (obviously), unless of course the interior roominess is a limiting factor.

[Sydtron]

WTF is the purpose of a skidpad? Who drives in a huge, flat circle as fast as they can? How many slaloms do you hit on your way to work?

 

Skidpad is a convoluted way of seeing how wide the tires are/how much grip they have. Slaloms are a convoluted way of seeing what the wheelbase of the car is.

[Waaazooo]

the only thing Subaru failed on with the new LGT is the lack of rumble in the tail pipe.

[PeteWK]

I'm by no means complaining. I'm just making a point that when comparing a car on all-seasons to a car on summers, the car on summer tires has a huge advantage.

 

Putting on different tires other than OEM is hardly considered modifying a car. Sure BP/BL owners can go out and spend "$700 - 1000" for a good set of summer rubber, but BM GT owners have to purchase a second set of tires if they wish to not be embarrassed b/c their car is completely unsafe in cold or snowy conditions while driving on the OEM summer tires. So while I may have had to buy summer tires, you have to buy winter tires, so it's a moot point.

 

You can compare numbers all you want. I don't know why you think the Spec B is some awesome, super high performance machine. It's not. I never made it out to be. It's a little better than the GT performance wise. My only real reason to get one would be for the STi running gear. Just don't read Vimy's posts.

 

I really don't care about how many hundredths of a second some magazine recorded for a car. WTF is the purpose of a skidpad? Who drives in a huge, flat circle as fast as they can? How many slaloms do you hit on your way to work?

 

 

 

Actually I live in Southern California and have zero intentions of buying winter tires.

 

Agreed on the running gear though I don't think the Spec B is that awesome of a car. It's nice but that's about it. My mentioning of it was to be kind to Gen 4 owners who see it as the end all / be all.

 

As for the skidpad, I make it a point to drive in a huge, flat circle as fast as I can. . . freeway on-ramps. And of course, the point of the slalom is to determine the characteristics of a car when making fast / emergency changes of direction. And that is a VERY important thing to know about one's car.

 

I'm still standing in approval of the Road and Track article regarding the two generations of Legacy GT. I don't think the Gen 4 owners give Subaru engineers enough credit. They came up with a car that will benefit the company by expanding the car's appeal greatly while still giving their customers a real driver's car. Someone may or may not like the looks (if someone bought a Gen 4 car they're probably in that boat as the cars are quite different) but it should be admitted by all that the company addressed nearly all the Gen 4 short-comings and came up with a car that goes fast, stops fast, handles well and is sufficiently roomy.

 

Pete

[PeteWK]

the only thing Subaru failed on with the new LGT is the lack of rumble in the tail pipe.

 

I could not agree more.

 

I pester Borla weekly.

[StoplightAssassin]

Actually I live in Southern California and have zero intentions of buying winter tires.That's fine for you as long as you don't venture out of SoCal or go to the mountains. Then you'll find out how quickly awd won't save you with summer tires in cold and wet conditions.

 

Agreed on the running gear though I don't think the Spec B is that awesome of a car. It's nice but that's about it. My mentioning of it was to be kind to Gen 4 owners who see it as the end all / be all. There was one guy who really believed that and he's not here anymore. I'm not sure if you ever noticed all of the Spec B jokes on the site.

 

As for the skidpad, I make it a point to drive in a huge, flat circle as fast as I can. . . freeway on-ramps. And of course, the point of the slalom is to determine the characteristics of a car when making fast / emergency changes of direction. And that is a VERY important thing to know about one's car.

 

Highway on/off ramps are all banked, have elevation changes and bumps. They are completely different than a skidpad and pretty much make skidpad results useless. Do you keep a g-meter on your dash that you watch in turns to let you know when the max g's RnT were able to pull is about to be reached by your car? I didn't think so.

 

The slalom tests the average speed a car can repeatedly transition from a right turn to a left turn or vice versa. Unless you are weaving in and out of traffic, this test is also useless for the quantitative results. You can get a good idea of a car's turn in, but you can't quantify that.

 

The test that you are talking about is the "emergency lane change maneuver test". Sure, if you were in a parking lot full of cones you might be able to duplicate RnT's results, but in the real world, there are thousands of other factors that determine a successful ELCM. That cone the RnT test driver hit on his first attempt at the ELCM test is a kid or animal in real life.

 

I'm still standing in approval of the Road and Track article regarding the two generations of Legacy GT. I don't think the Gen 4 owners give Subaru engineers enough credit. They came up with a car that will benefit the company by expanding the car's appeal greatly while still giving their customers a real driver's car. Someone may or may not like the looks (if someone bought a Gen 4 car they're probably in that boat as the cars are quite different) but it should be admitted by all that the company addressed nearly all the Gen 4 short-comings and came up with a car that goes fast, stops fast, handles well and is sufficiently roomy.

 

You can continue defending your BM all you want. Not once did I ever say anything bad about it. I guess you view the BP/BL as such a terrible car, god forbid someone dare compares the two.

 

I'm glad you love your car and hope your relationship with Road and Track continues to blossom. However, your stock BM GT will not run circles around a stock BP/BL GT with summer tires.

 

Pete

[Waaazooo]

I don't necessarily think the BM is an uuuber better competitor than the spec b. I just think the spec b fixed the "at the time" deficiencies.

 

Continuing to argue the pros and cons of summer tires has lost its luster. Less than average a/s tires versus so-so summer tires. Either way both sets of tires were not practical for all regions of the market.

[lenco12]

1. Transmission is basically a 5-speed with an extra gear. As far as I know, no one has broken one yet (someone going stage 2 killed their clutch though).

2. Legacy is a lot more roomy. I'm just over 6' tall and I can set the driver seat to be comfy, then hop in the back seat and not feel cramped.

3. Acessport/other tuners, exhaust from AVO and Invidia and suspension bits from a few people.

You will love the Legacy GT models.

You will get an A+ deal on the 2010 legacy.

The only main difference is that the 2011 Legacy GT comes only in limited and if you were to get a dark color the interior would also be dark.

Oh and also the folding mirrors..

 

_________________

watch movies online

[PeteWK]

 

 

 

(Back from exciting Michigan, sorry for the delay)

 

Umm, OK. First, I'm not sure you're actually reading my posts. Compare the two cars all you want. Go nuts, no complaint from me.

 

Your real issue seems to be with Road and Track. I could get you their address if you want to write them a nasty letter telling them how they, with a long and admirable track record testing cars are essentially idiots. Their tests are inadequate, opinions invalid etc etc etc.

 

Frankly, if this were a court case, the judge would certainly name them as an "expert witness". They ain't perfect but their writers and editors drive just about everything (hard and fast) and are in an excellent position to make educated comments.

 

As for the tire thing, yes - they are an aftermarket upgrade. When I purchased a Jeep (1987 Commanche 4WD, 4.0 liter, 5MT etc) I upgraded the tires. In no way could I have said to my friends while standing next to my Jeep with newly shod Mickey Thompson Baja Belted Tires that my "still stock" Jeep could trash their Fords, Toyotas etc through the mud and up the hills we off-roaded through. They would have rightly concluded - it ain't stock.

 

Now, if the Jeep had been available from American Motors with those tires, that would be a different story but it wasn't.

 

Pete

[StoplightAssassin]

RnT would not be named as an expert witness in a court case. That's what the NHTSA is for.

 

I have no issues with RnT. They can test cars til they're blue in the face. What I don't understand is how people such as yourself can take RnT test results and can claim one car is far superior based on .02 more lateral g's on the skidpad or a .1 second quicker 0 - 60.

 

I've driven both otherwise stock BL GT and BM GT with summers and I can assure you, they may look vastly different, but they handle damn near the same. Both cars rock like a boat when pushed. Turn in is decently sharp in both cars, unfortunately it's followed by moderate understeer which is controllable by trail braking.

 

The bottom line is a stock BM GT will not run circles around a stock BL/BP GT on summers.

 

unsubscribe

[PeteWK]

RnT would not be named as an expert witness in a court case. That's what the NHTSA is for.

 

I have no issues with RnT. They can test cars til they're blue in the face. What I don't understand is how people such as yourself can take RnT test results and can claim one car is far superior based on .02 more lateral g's on the skidpad or a .1 second quicker 0 - 60.

 

I've driven both otherwise stock BL GT and BM GT with summers and I can assure you, they may look vastly different, but they handle damn near the same. Both cars rock like a boat when pushed. Turn in is decently sharp in both cars, unfortunately it's followed by moderate understeer which is controllable by trail braking.

 

The bottom line is a stock BM GT will not run circles around a stock BL/BP GT on summers.

 

unsubscribe

 

And when I add 800 dollars worth of upgrades to match your tire expense?

[Waaazooo]

Bm still runs circles around the spec b.

 

 

 

Ha ha I said it.

[bradygo]

http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg

 

 

Methinks this thread is growing pointless.

[Waaazooo]

This thread has been the poo poo.

[vkchu]

http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg

 

 

Methinks this thread is growing pointless.

 

xkcd is dead on point here.

i wonder if the op is even checking this thread.

 

lol

[PeteWK]

http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg

 

 

Methinks this thread is growing pointless.

 

 

 

 

NO WAY. And I'm starting to agree with StoplightAssassin. Think about it. A 2009 Legacy GT has better ground clearance than a 4X4 F-150. . . that is once we pop on a set of tractor tires.

 

And the Legacy can out skid-pad a Corvette. . . with a set of circle track slicks.

 

And then Monster Mudders and Snow Tires and what have you?

 

Everybody knows those tires should have been offered on the Gen 4 Legacy GT. There's no end to how much better it is than all the other cars out there!

 

Yep yep yep.

 

Pete

[Waaazooo]

You sound bitter

[PeteWK]

You sound bitter

 

Not at all. I wrote it all with a smile on my face, and a rather impish smile at that.

 

Pete

 

ps - I don't have a problem with disagreements. But I do take issue when they're devoid of common sense.

[Flat_4]

xkcd is dead on point here.

i wonder if the op is even checking this thread.

 

lol

 

I still check on this thread now and again to see if anybody actually went back on the topic but it seams to just be turning to a bitch over 2 cars on which one may be a little bit better stock than the other. Who races stock cars anyways:confused: