Stage 1.25? 1.5? 1.75?

[B-BGTLimited]

LOL, ok yeah Not sure what you would call it, BUT Is there anything wrong with running a Stage 2 tune on a car without replacing the down pipe yet or punching it out? My car already has a cat less up pipe... YES I know it does not flow as good as the straight through since it does have a flex section, But that wont bet there long.

 

Really I'm asking, Is the aftermarket or custom down pipe necessary to support any part of a stage 2 tune?

 

If so I'll make a pipe before I flash the tune to the car.

[John M]

My car isn't held back by having an UP with a flex. It greatly helps prevent leaks and eases installation. You couldn't give me a free solid UP.

 

The goal of a gutted DP for Stage 2 is the exhaust flow. The stock DP sucks that badly so anything you do is an improvement. Pic:

 

http://moojohn.com/subaru/dpcomp.jpg

 

Is it really required to run a normal Stag 2 setup? Probably not. You may not make the same power but I can't think of anything that would be harmed by running a S2 tune.

[B-BGTLimited]

Ok, that's what I assumed, and could only imagine that the flow alone is the main restriction that will hold back the full S2 potential.

 

I will probably stay away from a aftermarket DP just due to the price tags. I'm looking at getting a flange and making my own divorced setup.

 

I also agree with you on the up pipe flex part, but I have been told the transitions of the pipe to flex aren't the best, so maybe in the future it will be worth replacing with a better section of flex, and making those joints smoother inside.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[Irimis]

300ish for the erz/cnt is a great price on a well made DP. They may have some of the "open" box ones for 280 still.

[B-BGTLimited]

Yes, but for someone who came from a car where you had to make everything for it or you had no aftermarket, I still find 280 to be a bit steep for a piece of pipe with two flanges on the ends. I can make it for way less than that since I do not require the bling of stainless steel under my hood.

 

I just checked what you said and they are 339 for a catted version... or $189 for a non catted.... And to be quite honest, $189 is on the edge of acceptable to me. I'm just not sure if I want to run catless... I'm not a fan of it. I run a cat on my Beretta unless I'm at the strip where its running open headers, so I'm not about to do cat-less on my DD

[keithk831]

Yes, but for someone who came from a car where you had to make everything for it or you had no aftermarket

 

This man speaks the truth!

 

<-- Former Beretta owner (like 8 years ago)

 

 

OP, just gut your stock downpipe and take advantage of that stage 2 tune! Otherwise you might as well just run a stage 1 tune.

[wpmarky]

I'll vote for not running stage 2 until you get the downpipe, unless you know how to self tune and can start with a stage 2 tune and take some timing/target boost off of that.

 

Having a tune that doesn't match your parts is not good for your engine long term. Will it work? Yes your car will run after you load the map. It will also probably have alot of knock, and will wear down your engine faster.

 

At the minimum just go for a gutted stock DP. I ran that with the Cobb OTS stg.2 for a while, then went with infamous tune for piece of mind.

[rtbrjason]

OP, just gut your stock downpipe and take advantage of that stage 2 tune! Otherwise you might as well just run a stage 1 tune.

 

Pretty much. "Stage 2" is just a tune that's setup for additional exhaust flow. You shouldn't flash the stage 2 map without opening up the exhaust. It probably won't hurt anything, but it definitely won't help anything as it's not tuned for so restrictive an exhaust. In fact it's more likely to hurt than help.

[dr_sharp]

Yea that is sort of the point of stg 1 and stg 2. One is tuned for stock DP, the other is tuned for aftermarket DP. I wouldn't do it.

[NSFW]

Probably won't help much, probably won't hurt much. Why risk it?

 

Running a tune that matches your hardware is definitely safer and possible (probably?) more powerful.

[B-BGTLimited]

Ok, then the simple answer is, it sounds like the S2 tune's purpose is to take advantage of a down pipe change and will only truly benefit if the down pipe is gutted or replaced.

 

I have a tactrix so I do my own tweaking to my tunes, but I start with ones from RomRaider that MickyD2005 has been working on. His S1 tune has been pretty solid on my car so I guess I'll stick with that till I can attack the exhaust.

 

Its hard to decide what to do things to... I need a Nitrous pressure gauge setup, warming blanket, and progressive timer for the car in my avatar to really benefit from the install on that, but at the same time I want a downpipe and an aftermarket exhaust for the Leggy... Dammit... LOL Which should I do? push the good ole Beretta into solid 12's or work on the DD...

[wpmarky]

Since you have a separate track car, just gut the LGT DP and load up an OS Stg. 2, then use the money you save on the beretta.

[B-BGTLimited]

That's what I'm leaning toward... But at the same time I will probably still search out a dump flange that I can make my own down pipe from so I can at least improve upon whats there, and for much cheaper.

[TSiWRX]

I'm curious as to what the EGTs will be, with the factory DP in-place, particularly while it retains both of the factory post-turbo cats., with boost levels typical of that seen with "Stage II" maps - B-BGT, do you have a way of monitoring EGTs?

[B-BGTLimited]

Unfortunately no I do not. 07's didn't come with a front EGT sensor and I don't have the money to invest in one just to test that. I have no reason to keep the stock DP, I was just wondering if the stage 2 tune really needs something better than stock to be there. To run reliably of course since this is my DD.

 

As wpmarky noted, I have one car that consumes most of my money, and I also work on a circle track car that consumes whatever time I thought I had as well... lol

 

For now I'll stick with the Stg1 and after my upcoming wedding in Aug and cross country trip, I think I will gain some extra time to play with this more.

[keithk831]

Unfortunately no I do not. 07's didn't come with a front EGT sensor and I don't have the money to invest in one just to test that. I have no reason to keep the stock DP, I was just wondering if the stage 2 tune really needs something better than stock to be there. To run reliably of course since this is my DD.

 

As wpmarky noted, I have one car that consumes most of my money, and I also work on a circle track car that consumes whatever time I thought I had as well... lol

 

For now I'll stick with the Stg1 and after my upcoming wedding in Aug and cross country trip, I think I will gain some extra time to play with this more.

 

I may be selling my gutted DP in the next couple weeks, as I just ordered a catted DP. I'll probably sell it for around $50-60 if you're interested. That way you can keep your stocker (like I did).

[NSFW]

Ok, then the simple answer is, it sounds like the S2 tune's purpose is to take advantage of a down pipe change and will only truly benefit if the down pipe is gutted or replaced.

 

That's how I see it. Until someone does a proper back-to-back test we can't know for sure, but I'd be shocked it it turned out any other way. Stage-1 and Stage-2 tunes are both developed to make the best use of the available hardware. Mixing and matching is not likely to be optimal.

 

Its hard to decide what to do things to... I need a Nitrous pressure gauge setup, warming blanket, and progressive timer for the car in my avatar to really benefit from the install on that, but at the same time I want a downpipe and an aftermarket exhaust for the Leggy... Dammit... LOL Which should I do? push the good ole Beretta into solid 12's or work on the DD...

 

I suggest just a downpipe for the LGT, and a Stage-2 tune for it. Then, Beretta into 12s. There are varying opinions of what order to do mods, but IMO the next two LGT upgrades would be a TMIC (so you can run more boost without popping the stocker) and then the midpipe/y-pipe. Since you are tuning yourself, you can do those whenever you feel like it. The DP will likely be the biggest bang-for-the-buck you ever get, though. After that it's just incremental changes, until/unless you put in a bigger turbo (big bang, but also big bucks).

 

Or you could sell the Beretta and use the proceeds to put the LGT into the 12s.

[TSiWRX]

^ I like the idea of keeping the Beretta as the fun car, too.

 

---

 

The reason why I brought up EGT is just how cautious Cobb has been regarding the "Stage II" step...ever more so, since 2005. Given that the post-turbo cats. are the greatest restrictions in the picture, certainly, I'd imagine that one would want to gut at least the first post-turbo cat. before turning up the boost - but if you had an EGT, and could keep an eye on knock, too, then the test of not gutting any of the post-turbo piping certainly would bring some interesting data to what we've always only speculated upon.

[B-BGTLimited]

You guys all make good points. There seems to be a lot of speculation over fact on here too... especially on tuning items.

 

And I agree with TSi... The Beretta will stay. Unfortunately the LGT was purchased to replace my other DD Beretta with something that's better in the snow and a bit more comfortable/safe. As far as the race/toy Beretta... I bought that in 07 to take the parts I had in my daily one and put them into that since it was rust free. And how often do you see a 1996 Raspberry Metallic Beretta with the license plate MR PINK run 12's in the 1/4 It already hit 13.074@106 and that made some jaws drop.

[TSiWRX]

There seems to be a lot of speculation over fact on here too... especially on tuning items.

 

^ Exactly. There's some things we know, via conclusive, quantitative, measures - but there's definitely also some things which we don't.

 

IIRC, the lack of conclusive EGT data is one that fits into the latter...we've always just taken for-granted that with such hefty post-turbo restrictions, upping the boost will push EGTs into unfriendly territory.

 

Tell you the truth, I wouldn't have wanted you to push the car with only the UP EGT - I was more thinking that you may already have an EGT at the manifolds...that way, if things started to climb into the danger zone, at least you'd have plenty of time to come off the throttle.

 

I dunno, maybe you'll want to toss it around, if you ever got the spare time and came upon a nicely priced second-hand gauge/thermocouple combo: the factory manifolds usually come off with little to no issues (particularly as they're protected by both the splash guard as well as a heat-shield), so it makes for a painless drill-and-tap procedure.

 

And how often do you see a 1996 Raspberry Metallic Beretta with the license plate MR PINK run 12's in the 1/4 It already hit 13.074@106 and that made some jaws drop.

[rtbrjason]

And how often do you see a 1996 Raspberry Metallic Beretta with the license plate MR PINK run 12's in the 1/4 It already hit 13.074@106 and that made some jaws drop.

 

Sweet man.. the last Beretta I saw run at a track was stoked about hitting a 17.1 or something ridiculously slow.