All you Outback lovers comment?

[jranmann]

OK all you Outback lovers I am torn between buying another low slung GT wagon and perhaps stepping 'up' to the Outback XT....I would certianly enjoy hearing your own opinons on the XT vs the GT model differences, especially as to handling, as I am in the market for a MT version such as this Gold 05 MT limited shown.

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/Gold.jpg

 

Ground clearance is an issue for me (many unpaved roadways here) and the extra 3" that the Outback XT offers would be very appreciated, although any significant sacrifice in handling would make the MT/H4 combo somewhat overkill...thus leading me to believe that the extra cost for premium fuel on both would be somewhat wasted on the XT if it's handling characteristics are what one would assume, given it's higher center of gravity. etc.

 

Thanks for any real comparison info...

 

Ran

[shutterbc]

Hi Ran,

 

You might want to check out this thread regarding an LGT / OBXT suspension swap:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/lgt-wagon-suspension-swapped-into-outback-xt-140548.html?t=140548

 

So pretty much, you can do a swap if you really felt like it, but it sounds like you'd want to keep the ground clearance. To be honest, there have been a few days where I wanted a couple inches of clearance as well. I can tell from driving both cars that there is noticeably more body roll in an OBXT. But still, I think a lot of that can be changed with some simple modifications.

[jranmann]

Hey Shutter...

 

Thanks for the reply and the link...Admittedly that XT looks excellent down low but as you say, a good set of struts and springs (progressive?)

might well do the trick without sacrificing the inches (almost 3) that one gains by going with the XT set-up.

 

What I found interesting is the amount of XT MT examples up for sale relative to the Legacy GT's (even though this is an '05)

my understanding is that the MT went up thru 06 in contrast to the Legacy which lost it in 05.

 

Many good exterior color choices not offered on the Legacy lineup in H4

 

http://www.russauto.com/ucinv/BT39902/BT39902_04.jpg

 

Gotta love that light color interior 'option' on these hot summer days too!

 

Cheers!

[FLlegacy]

I would say simpler mods like beefier swaybars would tighten that OB suspension nicely, springs and shocks may not even be necesary.

[jranmann]

I would say simpler mods like beefier swaybars would tighten that OB suspension nicely, springs and shocks may not even be necesary.

 

Now you're talkin'

 

Any specific brand of swaybar that may work well on the 4th generation chassis?

I've used several on my BMW and if Suspension Techniques were still around, I'd buy another set...

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/New%20Album/DSC000062.jpg

 

for my e24 that is.

On smoothing out the ride...Does anyone offhand know if Bilstein make struts for this Legacy/Outback?

 

Cheers!

 

Ran

[superg]

I just bought an 05 OBXT manual with 22,000 miles. It replaces a WRX I had modified to near GR N rally car spec, so I have high standards.

 

I have made two mods to the suspension:

- AVO front and rear sway bar kit (and will add AVO end links and bar mount)

- LGT-sized tires, 215/45-17 instead of the 225/55-17 RE92s that came on the OBXT.

 

I am very happy with the handling now. It is flatter in the corners. The float is gone. It absorbs rough gravel roads very well, yet can be steered with the throttle.

 

The tire size change lowers the car by about an inch, saves 6 lbs per corner, shortens the gearing by 8%, and improves the turn-in. Only downside is the 8% speedo error, but that will probably save me on tickets.

 

Final mod will be some Rotas to take off another 24 lbs of unsprung weight. Then my stealth wagon will only be about 50 lbs heavier than a new STi!

[mwiener2]

All you need is a sway bar or two and the handling in the OB will suffice. That's pretty much all I have on mine and I take it to the track everyonce and awhile.

 

The only strut and spring options for the OB that DON'T lower it are KYB GR2 non-adjustable struts and Rallitek (i think) HD rear springs.

[jranmann]

I appreciate the tips and will investiate the options you mention...

now if I could just get my Saab Aero to mow my lawn for me automatically...

that would be soooo special?

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/lawnmower2.jpg

 

I do think I'm going to have to add on to the garage!

 

[BAC5.2]

What do you mean "MT thru 06"?

 

My 09 is an MT...

 

That said, stock, they handle like doo. The VERY minimum is an alignment with front camber bolts and rear camber bushings from Whiteline. The front alignment spec is +0.07 degrees of positive camber!

[jranmann]

What do you mean "MT thru 06"?

 

Love that shift knob mwiener2...!

 

Apologies for the confusion Bacs.2...I forgot to clearly say...

 

The Legacy GT wagon (only) lost the MT after 2005.

 

Again, on the wagons only, the only newer ones available with MT is/was the Outback/Legacy models (XT and XT limited)

thru 06 and likely further in time, perhaps up to the fifth generation chassis brought out in '09?

 

Make sense?

 

And thanks for confirming what I suspect was an issue resolved with far more than a wheel alignment and camber plates?

[jranmann]

The tire size change lowers the car by about an inch, saves 6 lbs per corner, shortens the gearing by 8%, and improves the turn-in. Only downside is the 8% speedo error, but that will probably save me on tickets.

 

Final mod will be some Rotas to take off another 24 lbs of unsprung weight. Then my stealth wagon will only be about 50 lbs heavier than a new STi!

 

Thanks too superg for that good information...Good tires, brakes and any reduction in unsprung wheel/tire weight are a priority for me too...(note the super light BBS 3-piece RS wheels on the white BMW?)

 

So, will those tires you menton also fit on the stock XT limited wheels too..? (I sorta like the stock XT wheel look...)

 

By the way, given your recent purchase do you mind my asking what a fair price to pay might be for this 05 XT limited MT (here and above) with just under 38k miles? (appears to be bone stock..)

 

http://www.russauto.com/ucinv/BT39902/BT39902_02.jpg

 

Dealer is asking way too much for a car they purchased at auction...and it's not of course eligible for Subaru warranty as it's

been in service for over 5 years. i.e. Here's a chance to reveal what you paid for yours... is what I am asking if you don't mind??

 

http://www.russauto.com/ucinv/BT39902/BT39902_08.jpg

 

PS: Just to be safe and avoid all tickets, make sure your speedo error is going in the upward direction relative to your indicated speed...

and not the other way 'round? Me thinks any GPS real-time unit worth it's salt can give you accurate speed over terrain with pinpoint accuracy...

 

Gosh how i do love modern technology sometimes!

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/New%20Album/DSC000162.jpg

 

Note: I may be dating myself severely but NO more visits to the AAA for Speedometer error checks is a godsend as the BMW

you see above is nearing it's 30th birthday next year, all of it while driven (with great spirit) within my family...

This should tell you something about my age and refusal to submit to the automatic transmission crowd? (no offense intended)

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/New%20Album/DSC00025A-1.jpg

 

(Shameful self-serving plug aside?) I was hoping some speed demon here (with a bit of regard also for early BMW/German engineering?) might be able to purchase this pre-CSL Karmann light-body well-documented car from us, so that a bit newer Outback/Legacy purchase could be made with the extra funds? A beautiful car indeed, restored well (by us) at great expense, a rare BMW example with no issues whatsoever...Squeeky clean Oregon title and one of the 237 five-speed California Edition models ever imported here to the States ...and back then only available in the US by special order from BMW, not to mention it's Alpina/Bilstein suspension heritage that was also ordered from BMW/Alpina at the time..?

 

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-car-page.php/carno/85357

 

Cheers!

[jranmann]

Incidently, might anyone help me to identify the maker of these front and rear strut tower braces shown here on an 05 LGT wagon?

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/DSC01376_1024x768.jpg

 

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93/JRanmann/DSC01370_1024x768.jpg

 

Thanks!

[OhBe1]

If you need the ground clearance, get the Outback & accept the compromised handling. However, with a upgraded rear bar (JDM 20mm hollow) & decent tires & alignment, I find the paved backroads fun even without the turbo. Max out the front camber (probably -0.7deg), and set toe to 0.05deg in all around.

 

We went with GY TripleTred for all weather capability, increasing size to 235/55/17 for looks. Handling is much improved with all the above, with surprising turn-in.

 

It's freeways where the deficiencies are most apparent, floatytail being the biggest problem. More camber all around and front caster would require aftermarket parts. More damping would be desirable, but difficult to find at stockish height without going JDM Bilsteins or full coilovers.

 

AFAIK, there is no appreciable difference between the turbo & n/a suspensions, BTW.

 

I doubt the (front) strut brace does much, considering how close the tops are to the firewall. Don't know about the rear (shock) brace.

[BAC5.2]

With the stock front camber bolts, at least on my 09, negative camber isn't possible. I've done 3 alignments, and the only time the front camber was negative, was when it was on coilovers.

[jranmann]

I doubt the (front) strut brace does much, considering how close the tops are to the firewall. Don't know about the rear (shock) brace.

 

I wondered about the bracing here as this car was set-up this way when new by a PO...But as I see it, without a sunroof (a large hole in the intergriy of the structure?) the LGT wagon (non-limited) as Subaru's initial design (w/o the glass roof) seems a bit firmer overall structurally...

 

I am to take it out again today on the FWY, etc for a longer test drive... to see if it performs there as much as I think it will and then do her a few twisties, one I get a good feel and confidence of it's capabilities, as for now I don't own it... (but might?)

 

As I said I'm torn on the issue and it's handy to read what each of you mention here, so thanks for sharing your experiences, it helps focus the issue surely?

 

The extra ground clearance (it's actually 2.5" IIRC) is one factor (handy no doubt) but the full-time sacrifice of the car's handling makes the tradeoff seem hardly worth it... as lowering the XT to suit might just be a bit expensive for my taste currently and a bit experimental at best (with the 'soundest' of advice) I also drive lots of miles on the CA freewway grid etc. and long distance trips (instead of flying) Mostly west coast...i.e. North/South

 

To respond to BAC.2's comment...Poster may have not been clear, and IIRC my understanding is that...it wasn't just the 'bolts' may have used adjustable camber plates and just didn't mention it...IIRC, front strut tower bushings/adjustable camber plates are needed to even begin to acheive these (negative) numbers mentioned...

 

http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/NOL44003.jpg

 

 

Cheers!

[apexjapan]

The Outback and the Forester share a similarity in that, despite the COG being raised, they still handle quite well. The primary reason for any "looseness" in it is due to the tiny rear sway bar plus the usual issues inherent to any Legacy. Ie, junk OEM lower control arm bushing (rear), inadequate mounts for the rear swaybar (which is the real reason subaru band-aided a smaller rear bar in), and relatively blah damping on the struts.

 

All that said, I find the Outback a little easier to steer with the throttle *because* you can get the rear end loose easier. Go to far with suspension setup and you'll have too much understeer. One thing a lot of people don't appreciate is that while the car feels like it's leaning too much, all four tyres are still on the road and have traction. Too much suspension and it becomes a 3-wheeler on bumping hard corners.

 

Regards,

 

Paul Hansen

http://www.avoturboworld.com

[jranmann]

Doesn't the (as designed) 'passive' rear steering, via flexing of the rear suspension bushings that you mention, (to push for more of an understeer?)...also play a factor in this too?

[OhBe1]

Ours came OEM with massive, almost unsafe, levels of understeer.