FB Offering a Rear 20mm AVO Adj. Swaybar for $89

[TSiWRX]

If that's the intent, then why did you guys not clarify, in your original posts?

 

Why is it that so many of us thought the two of you had other aims? It's not like only one other person somehow "misread" your posts.

 

Everyone knows that subtle clues/cues such as intonation are easily lost over the Intrawebs - basic efforts of human communication are easily defeated. Which is why many of us go to lengths to insure that our actual *intent* is properly conveyed.

 

Why not, then, in this case?

 

We would've been relaxed, had the supposed intent of those posts been more readily apparent.

 

shadowsports, N.sane, and LegacyGTBiggie's posts were all clear in their intent.

 

Face it, it was a bad choice of words and a lack of proper clarification that caused both your and madcatz's posts to be "misread" by those of us who came to support FBP.

 

And besides, if no one else had come forward to offer FBP's original defense with some good backup, what would you think that would say, to potential customers?

 

When a Vendor actually has the support of the community, that says a lot.

 

 

 

----

 

 

And before anyone accuses me of being some kind of "Vendor/retailer/manufacturer fanboy," they should check out my past posts here *against* certain Vendors - those who have come short (not necessarily of fulfilling my needs, personally, but that of the community's, period), as well as posts elsewhere (such as the various speed-detection countermeasures hobbyist/enthusiast Forums). My past record stands for itself. I call the shots as I see it.

[m sprank]

I love fireworks!

[torinalth]

could it be a bit of bias that has caused the over-reaction? I say it this way for this purpose: I am new to the LGT side of things, and as such I have zero experience with FBP (or most of this forum, save for the last couple months). So, as someone that does not care about the subject, I find this thread to be quite lopsided.

 

I do not see the ill-intent that was claimed, nor a direct attack, or any other type of mal-intent. So, I kinda agree, that while defending someone may be important, I do believe several people went overboard.... so, why not just let the thread die now.

 

T

[m sprank]

Thats no fun, lol. this is the interweb, everything lives forever here and everything is TRUE! Welcome to the forum. This is just about having fun now.

[dudeondacouch]

IBTL

[m sprank]

noooooooo. not the lock. nooooooooooooooo.

[TSiWRX]

^

 

 

----

 

 

could it be a bit of bias that has caused the over-reaction? I say it this way for this purpose: I am new to the LGT side of things, and as such I have zero experience with FBP (or most of this forum, save for the last couple months). So, as someone that does not care about the subject, I find this thread to be quite lopsided.

 

I do not see the ill-intent that was claimed, nor a direct attack, or any other type of mal-intent. So, I kinda agree, that while defending someone may be important, I do believe several people went overboard.... so, why not just let the thread die now.

 

T

 

It certainly could be a bit of bias - FBP and certain of its staff have *long* been servicing our community here on LegacyGT.com, and I think that a bit of this has been spurred by such loyalties. I'm certainly not going to say that I'm not biased (more below).

 

But like you said, it is important to defend a Vendor that's stood in our corner and gone to bat for us, the individual consumers, versus the manufacturers, many times in the past. Given how many Forum-supporting Vendors here have gone the way of the dodo for various legitimate (yet still sad) reasons, given the Vendors whom I have seen slide into carelessness, incompetence, and then flame-out, and even more importantly given those who have taken advantage of the honor and trust of the community and violated them in the most rude manner possible....I just did not want to see a *GOOD* Vendor's name dragged through the mud for something that was clearly an honest mistake (and one for which shadosports was good enough to point out to the Vendor! ).

 

A lot of larger communities have a bit of "toxicity" to them. I've been here since nearly the beginning, and I refuse to see us go that way.

 

On the Intraw3b, it's all too easy for someone's good name to go down the tube, simply from false and baseless accusations, or even just a careless word.

 

"Bait-and-switch" is a serious accusation to have made, and I think the response here shows that.

 

Are the guys at FBP my friends?

 

Not really - while I respect them for their professionalism and knowledge, and am friendly with them, but I don't know them, personally. They seem like truly nice people and sure, for our shared interest in the BL/BP alone, I'd like to meet them, shake their hands, and call them my friend, someday. But at this point? My relationship with them is no different than any customer-vendor relationship, yet their efforts on my behalf (as well as that of the rest of the community) certainly has generated a bit of loyalty from me.

 

So, just as I would step up to vouch for my friends, if someone accused them of something that they did not do, I feel no embarrassment nor wrong in stepping forward to do the same, for FBP. Again, I ask - how would it have seemed if the only post to negate the "bait and switch" allegation were FBP's? Would not any potential new customer just look and snicker, then? "Yeah, right, a Vendor caught red-handed," right? But now, with members who've come out to defend FBP, is that same feeling still the same? or have our words offered a potential new customer some reassurance?

 

A "bait and switch" is a truly vile and despicable act. It's not words that should be thrown around lightly. And I think that if the intensity of the argument/support for FBP has been "lopsided," as you said, torinalth, I think that part of the reason why rests on that very set of words.

 

And if it was a question that was asked/answered, as BAC maintains, then I submit that intent of those words should have been better clarified.

 

As for "letting it die?"

 

FBP, myself, Bolksey, F-WDC, and m sprank's replies to the commentary by madcatz and BAC all took place on 7/7. It wasn't until yesterday that BAC returned to the thread to say that we were "overreacting."

 

There are ways to let a thread die, and there are ways to prolong the agony.

 

 

 

---

 

 

And I should add:

 

I have nothing personal against either BAC or madcatz.

 

I've often interacted, positively, with BAC - both here as well as on the SubaruForester.org Forums.

 

My (over)reaction here is based solely on the "bait and switch" accusation.

[BAC5.2]

There was no accusation... he asked an innocent question (which, oddly enough, was mostly unrelated to the thread. No one claimed to have been "bait-and-switched", or made any mention of having attempted to buy at the low price). The question was innocent and sterile. I fail to see where the accusation arose?

 

The same post could have been made in ANY thread about ANY vendor. If the exact same post were made in a disreputable vendor thread, would it have gotten as much heat?

 

It was an honest mistake that FBP posted the wrong price. Don't read more into it than that.

[TSiWRX]

There was no accusation... he asked an innocent question (which, oddly enough, was mostly unrelated to the thread. No one claimed to have been "bait-and-switched", or made any mention of having attempted to buy at the low price). The question was innocent and sterile. I fail to see where the accusation arose?

 

That may have been how you read it, but it certainly was not the same way that several of us who followed-up read it.

 

The fact that it was, as you say, misread towards "accusation" - and was "misread" by so many others testifies toward that end.

 

The same post could have been made in ANY thread about ANY vendor. If the exact same post were made in a disreputable vendor thread, would it have gotten as much heat?

 

Exactly the point.

 

If such an accusation was made of a disreputable Vendor, I highly doubt that anyone other than the Vendor would have come forward to defend themselves. Such a Vendor would be left to fend for such a claim, however true or not, for themselves.

 

There was no "overreaction" here in so many of us coming forward to vouch for FBP.

 

It was an honest mistake that FBP posted the wrong price. Don't read more into it than that.

 

Then why did neither you nor madcatz clarify your intents, in your respective original replies in this thread?

 

The simple fact that several of us "misread" your and madcatz's intent again plainly shows where those posts were lacking.

 

Reading into those original replies -or not, for that matter, as there were simply no more words to read, in either case- yields the same thing: "bait and switch" was mentioned without any further clarification.

[torinalth]

I feel myself going back to my old freshman english class. Back then we learned about fallacies. and one was the bandwagon mentality where the more people take a stance then more follow: this does not make it correct.

 

honestly what happened in this thread is that someone asked a qestion based on a possible scenario (in this case, if someone purchased the RSB at the price, would it be honored or not: if not, then it may be seen as a bait and switch). this led to people assuming that he was conjecturing that FBP was trying to screw people (this was not intended nor was it read as such by people unrelated to this situation [me]). after a few people established this possability (that he was indeed accusing FBP) more joined in to defend (this was regardless of if it was done or not).

 

This entire thread is somewhat amusing till you look at it for what it is. essentially it shows that regardless of what happens, if anyone makes a comment against FPB then they will indeed be discredited and attacked. while that is fine if the claim is baseless, if there was indeed an issue then it would be conveniently swept away by the thralls of FBP troops on this board.

 

Am I going a bit overboard in this analysis? yes. The point was to take the other side of the coin to show what happens when you take an assumption and run with it without regard for any other possible reasoning other then what you initially see.

 

In essence: this thread failed amusing, but wrong. yay for boobies.

 

T

[BAC5.2]

Why didn't I clarify? Because I thought we were all adults here, and would give the benefit of doubt to eachothers credit. I didn't realize that someone would get burned at the stake for asking a question, and I didn't think anyone would attack my opinion on their question.

 

I REALLY think people over reacted and got their panties bunched for no reason. I think Torinalth hit the nail on the head.

 

I have nothing against FBP at all. I am sure they are a great vendor and I have no opposition to shopping with them.

 

/thread and my involvement in this.

[m sprank]

 

Please dont lock this thread, its just getting good.

 

What us adults? Hahahahahahahah!

[TSiWRX]

I feel myself going back to my old freshman english class. Back then we learned about fallacies. and one was the bandwagon mentality where the more people take a stance then more follow: this does not make it correct.

 

honestly what happened in this thread is that someone asked a qestion based on a possible scenario (in this case, if someone purchased the RSB at the price, would it be honored or not: if not, then it may be seen as a bait and switch). this led to people assuming that he was conjecturing that FBP was trying to screw people (this was not intended nor was it read as such by people unrelated to this situation [me]). after a few people established this possability (that he was indeed accusing FBP) more joined in to defend (this was regardless of if it was done or not).

 

That's certainly one way of seeing it.

 

This entire thread is somewhat amusing till you look at it for what it is. essentially it shows that regardless of what happens, if anyone makes a comment against FPB then they will indeed be discredited and attacked. while that is fine if the claim is baseless, if there was indeed an issue then it would be conveniently swept away by the thralls of FBP troops on this board.

Believe me, it won't turn out that way.

 

If there's fault to find, fault will be found - and it will be properly assigned.

 

What you didn't take into account there is FBP's history here. Search up the problem-issues that they've been involved in in the past, and you'll see.

 

If FBP was wrong, I'd be among the first to call them out on it - and I'm sure that the bandwagon would follow as well.

 

I can't speak for any other person here, but have a general search of my screen-name, it's the same in virtually all on-line Forum communities I participate in. You'll see just how many manufacturers, Vendors, etc. I've voiced negative remarks about.

 

Fairness, to me, is a worth defending, and this is one of those cases.

 

Vendors come and go.

 

We simply all want the good ones to stay - and a way of doing so is to show our community support for these Vendors, to make sure that their hard-earned good name stays intact.

 

 

Am I going a bit overboard in this analysis? yes. The point was to take the other side of the coin to show what happens when you take an assumption and run with it without regard for any other possible reasoning other then what you initially see.

Actually, I do see the other side of the story - but at the same time, I'm left here wondering why those who claim to not have meant what they did, with the few words that they wrote or the ambivalent statements that they threw around, had not come forward to simply clarify and apologize, instead of trying to lay the blame elsewhere: i.e. "overreaction."

 

Why not simply man-up, and say "sorry for the confusion - that's not what I meant, my apologies?" instead of "sorry for the confusion, but y'all were reading too much into it, so it's not my fault."

 

 

In essence: this thread failed amusing, but wrong. yay for boobies.

 

T

Yay for boobies, definitely.

 

 

 

------

 

 

Why didn't I clarify? Because I thought we were all adults here, and would give the benefit of doubt to eachothers credit. I didn't realize that someone would get burned at the stake for asking a question, and I didn't think anyone would attack my opinion on their question.

 

We are all adults here, and as adults, we should understand the weight our words carry.

 

"Bait and switch" is truly a repugnant act, and it's rightfully despised.

 

If no such sentiment of "accusation" was intended to begin with, then the writer, as an adult, should have made the heck sure that there was absolutely no such doubt.

 

The tone of this thread changed drastically between posts 7 and 8.

 

Up through post 7, it was clear as day that this was an honest mistake, and all parties involved were kicking themselves in the head and laughing at themselves, for one reason or another.

 

But at post 8, that all changed.

 

And you (not you, BAC, but rather, "the reader") have to ask why.

 

Are we reading too much into it? Was too much said or left unsaid?

 

All of that could have applied to those two posts and the follow-up it's spawned.

 

It would've been simple for madcatz to have clarified why, exactly, he brought up the thought of "bait and switch," if it wasn't to say that FBP should honor that price, no matter the retraction? Or wait, did he actually say "he marked price must be honored no matter what?" So what was the intent of that?

 

It would have been just as simple for you to have said "I think so - but 'bait and switch' is not this case."

 

Wouldn't that have made things much more clear?

[m sprank]

Scoobies and boobies. Yay!

[TSiWRX]

Too many boobies. I'm getting distracted. Don't tell the wife.

 

Oh, wait, she already knows.