Jonathan Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 While I admit that when it snows I will start the car, and let it idle with the rear window defogger on and the windshield defroster on (fan on full) while I clear the car of snow and, if necessary, shovel out my driveway... I think it is generally a very bad idea to let your car idle whilst "cold" on a regular basis. The longer you let a cold engine idle the more time the motor will spend running a slightly "rich" condition that can, in theory, lead to shortened catalytic converter, Oxygen Sensor, and spark plug life... The shorter amount of time spend running "rich", the longer your car will last. It is obviously best to drive slowly, cautiously and gently while the motor is "cold". Yeah, your manual shift transmission is going to shift stiffly until it warms up.. but it will warm up quickest while being driven. Avoid making too many gear changes, and when you do change gears make sure to rev match and double clutch and to be as gentle as possible. I agree that the use of an "in block" electrical heater to warm the coolant before starting the car on really cold days makes a great deal of sense too, although when you first start your motor your motor oil is very likely to be rather cold and slow to lubricate those areas where it is most needed... So maybe on really cold days it is best to let the motor just idle for 2-3 minutes or so (even if you used an in-block electrical heater) just to let the oil flow through out to motor before driving off gently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassnectar Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 do any of you have a bloc heater in your car? i do and it keeps the oil nice and warm i truly think its the coolant that takes a long time to warm in my car :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 When my transmission is cold, shifting is like stirring molasses. I always double-clutch, and go easy on my transmission anyway, I want this car to last me a good long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz98gt Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 unclemat is definitely right. idling is the most inefficient way to use your car, regardless of the comfort from heat (i'm guilty of it too: 5am morning hockey sucks when it's -10 out haha). it's easier to start it up, wait 10-20 seconds, and start driving. the oil circulates pretty quickly actually (given you're not running like a 25w-50 ), and driving the car is easier on all the parts than just letting her sit there, plus everything warms up faster. just don't beat the hell out of it 2 minutes into a cold morning drive; wait for the oil/coolant to come to temp if you have an early lead foot. save time, money, gas...and if you really want heat, get a block heater. personally, i'm for old fashioned heat: big, fluffy jacket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I always have to let my car warm up a bit because I start out driving up a really steep hill. But my engine is warm within about 2 miles anyway. The 2.2 warms up MUCH MUCH faster than the DOHC 2.5 in my outback. Just so much less mass I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoLegacy Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I let it warm up enough that I know everything is lubricated, oil has thinned a bit, rings have expanded and tolerances have gone down... Tolerances *increase* as the engine warms up. It's somwhat counter-intuitive but as the metals expand so do the spaces between them. If you have a jar with a stuck lid, you'd run it under warm/hot water to unseize it....or heat a bolt and nut to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Tolerances *increase* as the engine warms up. It's somwhat counter-intuitive but as the metals expand so do the spaces between them. I was thinking about it as the space between parts going down, I like looking at things backwards But that's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Today I tried driving away with only a 1 min warm up. Took about 5 mins for the temp gauge to get to the normal level and seemed a little "gittier" on the freeway haha. If deffinatly warms up the car faster and drives a little better. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I very rarely drive on the freeway. On a daily basis I rarely drive over 50mph. I live in the boonies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 I don't either I live downtown Milwaukee but I have no school this week so I'm staying at the gf's which is 30 min south of here. If i lived in the boonies I would be way to tempted to do a 100mph a lot haha -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I don't either I live downtown Milwaukee but I have no school this week so I'm staying at the gf's which is 30 min south of here. If i lived in the boonies I would be way to tempted to do a 100mph a lot haha Depending on the season ... yes... The roads are either covered in snow. So I go the speed limitish with my studded tires. FUN! When it is dry in the winter it sucks because the roads are all frost heaved and full of holes. And studded tires perform horribly on dry roads. But when it is warm, I have my crappy all seasons on, and the roads are decent. WEEE! Can you say 60 down roads with a limit of 25...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I think one thing some people forget is that letting the car warm up for two minutes is *not* the same as letting a car idle. We all know that an idling engine is an unhappy engine, and an inefficient one. However, as we also know, for the first minute or two the engine is idling at 1500 RPM, so it's far from idling anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amp27 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 has anyone ever looked to see if the car is making the engine idle at 2 k on warm ups. like is the cruse control cable pulling the butterfly open or does the car idle idle high for some other reason. like i am gonna check to see if the cable is moving tomorrow morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 It is a combination of the IACV, fuel input, and ignition. Stop to think how your logic would work on a subaru without cruise control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 How often do you guys who let it idle for extended periods change your oil? My guess is you change it so often as to make the idling issue a non-issue. I start up both the STI and LGT and drive off after <1 min, regardless of how cold it is. The oil is pumping to every where it needs to instantaneously, so worrying about proper lubrication is just silly. The only reason to let the car idle, IMO, is for your own comfort or your perception of what your car feels is comfortable. '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Well, if you don't warm it up the oil is thick in really cold temps. And it doesn't lubricate things like HLAs as well. Or at all at higher RPMs. Also, at higher RPMs when the oil is very thick it is a LOT more pressure. So more wear on oil pump, valve train, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Why are you driving at high RPM when it's cold? '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I bought these machines to serve a purpose in my life. I use decent fluids, maintain my my vehicles properly, and expect them to perform for me. If you treat your car right it'll last forever, barring some defect. For me, this doesn't include coddling it in cold weather. What's cold to you and me isn't the same for our cars. Unless you've got a mechanical problem or a sludged up motor, it should be fine to drive immediately after starting for most climates. The only reason to let the car idle is for your own comfort, IMO. We can sit here and argue which would cause more wear, but I doubt it would be of any consequence. To me, the only detriment to long idling is its affect on oil - excessive moisture, fuel and other blowby. Again, I think most people (and especially enthusiasts) use too good of an oil at too short of an OCI, so this means little. Do what you want, and rest easy that your BD will most likely rust to the ground or blow a head gasket before you have an oil-related failure! haha '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 What's cold to you and me isn't the same for our cars. Unless you've got a mechanical problem or a sludged up motor, it should be fine to drive immediately after starting for most climates. The only reason to let the car idle is for your own comfort, IMO. When your car has 235,000 miles, and a pretty much original motor and completely original transmission, you come back and let me know if it's still the same car in cold weather. Because I can tell you that 50 degrees is very different than 70 degrees. And when it's below freezing, I almost cringe when I start it. And when it's below zero, I try to avoid starting it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Last winter it was -30° F here. As soon as I started it, the valvetrain was making a horrible ticking noise until it warmed up enough to get the HLAs full of oil. And I still have a HLA or 2 that doesn't work right and my valvetrain still ticks. Stupid HLAs. What a horrible idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Do any of you have a bloc heater in your car? I do and it keeps the oil nice and warm. I truly think its the coolant that takes a long time to warm in my car :S I have a dealer installed in block heater. I purchased this car new and specifically requested it be installed. I have never yet used it though. My understanding is that the In block heater heats the coolant, not the oil. Am I mistaken ? You can obviously get an after-market electrical oil heater that you temporarily replace the dip stick with, and there may also be some sort of an after market oil pan heating element as well ? Also Subaru did offer a heating element for the battery as well ? If it is cold enough to justify the use of the In block Heater, using a battery heater isn't a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subikid90 Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 You are right it is the coolant that it heats because eventually coolant will freeze and crack your block, oil wont. I think Subaru did make a battery heater because I have seem them on a few cars I have looked at buying. Could be something aftermarket too though. -Subikid90 1997 Legacy GT 5spd & EJ251 w/EJ25D heads ~10.5CR 1998 Legacy GT Limited waiting for EJ22T hybrid swap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 The coolant isn't going to freeze... that's why you have ANTI-freeze. It keeps it from freezing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gathermewool Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Is 204k closee enough? Mine makes noises, too, but I feel it it warms up faster and more efficiently when I drive it gently instead of letting it sit there. I'm not saying those who warm up their cars are wrong; do what you want if it makes you happy or more comfortable. If you've got stuck or collapsed HLAs or other problems you're trying to nurse along, then do so. If you drive in the city and can't stand that the 2nd gen's high idle will tend to over power the stock crappy brakes when cold, then let it warm up first. Before replacing the calipers and changing to aftermarket rotors and pads I would have trouble stopping my car backing out of my parking spot in the morning, even with the brake smashed to the ground! I was told this is common on BDs. My main point was that the only thing I believe is being hurt by idling excessively is your wallet, the environment (for any one who cares - I do a little, I guess), and your oil. If you leaving in a quieter, warmer car is worth the extra $0.50 in gas, and you change your oil frequently enough, who cares, right? '15 FB25 Magnatec 0W-20 + FU filter (70,517 miles) RSB, Fr. Strut Bar, Tint, STI BBS, LED er'where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 The coolant isn't going to freeze... that's why you have ANTI-freeze. It keeps it from freezing ...My understanding is that a 50-50 mix of water and traditional anti-freeze is only good to around -35 degrees. If you mix it in the exact proper proportions it just might be good to ~ -50 or so. This should be easy enough to look up on the internet though... EDIT Here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol Using a 50 % water mix you are good to -30 degrees (F) Using a 70 % water mix you are good to -60 degrees (F) Parking your car in an unheated barn overnight might not be such a bad idea if it is going to get really cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.