Tribeca Continues to Set Sales Records

[TSiWRX]

Subaru hardly sells any FXT's... Forester is being hit by the Outback... plain and simple.

 

FXT, true - but that's not to be said of the Forester, in-total.

 

Also... Forester had it's best month ever in December... so one month doesn't make a trend.

 

I agree, one month does not make a trend, but it's certainly convenient that sales started dropping just as the copies of these popular magazines were hitting the shelves.

[The B4]

FXT, true - but that's not to be said of the Forester, in-total.

 

 

 

I agree, one month does not make a trend, but it's certainly convenient that sales started dropping just as the copies of these popular magazines were hitting the shelves.

 

It's all Outback. Outback died on a vine while the 09/10 Forester was out... now that the new model is out Foresters have been scaling back relative to Outback.

 

This time last year, Forester had the newness of being SUV of the year.

[TSiWRX]

It's all Outback. Outback died on a vine while the 09/10 Forester was out... now that the new model is out Foresters have been scaling back relative to Outback.

 

^ Certainly true - that certainly cannot be denied. It would have been interesting to have test-driven the new Outback, had it been available, when we were shopping the FXT. I wonder what our own decision would have been, had that option been made available to us.

 

The previous-generation Outback, certainly, did not strike my wife's fancy, although I liked it - but then again, I'm in a BL.

 

But at the same time, as you've pointed out, Forester sales continued to climb, even well after the new Outback had been introduced (and, at least in the month of November, even after Motor Trend gave its Sport/Utility of the Year award, this year, to the new Outback). Given December's sales figures alone, then, it couldn't "all be Outback," could it?

 

This time last year, Forester had the newness of being SUV of the year.

^ And that's what I repeatedly pointed out. In the meanwhile, the rest of the mini/"Cute"-Utes have continued to evolve, and I wouldn't put it past them to have targeted the FXT as a benchmark in at least some areas (i.e. grunt).

 

And with this same logic, it also stands to reason that if having been crowned with that title somehow affected sales in a positive manner, then the same - albeit now negative - press is going to also drive things the other way.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Tribeca needs to become an AWD pavement-based people-mover. Sleeker, lower-floor, wider, and more aerodynamic than Outback or Forester.

 

It wouldn't offend me if they stole Honda's new SkyDeck concept's jack-knife front side doors, and sliding doors behind that.

 

Forester needs to step up as the truck-look CUV, to Outback's Wagon-look CUV.

 

Forester should get a premium trim line with an H6, and a good gearbox. RAV-4 will continue to clobber it until it does, or something else will, if Toyota sinks. Subaru has the benefit of not being that closely tied to toyota, to possibly side-step their current horrific brand image problem.

 

Subaru needs to upgrade it's premium automatic gearbox anyway... so that they can put more than ~250 lb. ft. of torque in front of it, which Subaru won't do with the current 5EAT.

 

Frankly... I wish they had saved the money that they spent putting a 6th ratio in the old manual gearbox for the Legacy GT, used their good robust 6MT instead, and spent the R&D money to put a nice overdrive 6th gear, and more robust internals into the current 5EAT gearbox that actually supports VTD AWD.

 

Then, they could up the 3.6's specific output, and get more power per fuel consumption out of it, and put it in front of a vehicle that can handle it. Keep in mind, a more efficient engine isn't only more powerful at it's peak, but even at lower RPMs... an engine that is more efficient at 2500rpm, and capable of pulling against a mechanical dis-advantage in overdrive gear requires less down-shifting, less transmission power sapping, and less engine revving up and down. to adjust speed both in-town, and on the highway. Plus an NA H6 is less thirsty in those situations than a running-pig-rich-to-be-safe turbo, even if it is less fun. And an H6 that is less handicapped by a slow-shifting, gear-hunting automatic gearbox, is even better. A gearbox that is properly geared, and doesn't have to hunt, and doesn't slide slowly from gear to gear is more efficient, and allows the engine to be more efficient.

 

If they want to keep the Forester out of Outback's turf, they could de-stroke the EZ36, back down toward 3.0-3.2, but keeping the new block updates that the EZ36 has over the EZ30R, and the unleaded fuel compatibility.

 

That, and a good towing package, with good size brakes. (WRX spec, or better... maybe even BL Legacy GT or tribeca size, and either going to 5x114 hubs, or getting tribeca-spec discs that are drilled for 5x100 instead.) and factory engine and transmission oil coolers, and air-cooled differential housing, and rear unibody underfloor strength and good, robust hitch receiver setup.

 

If my old 4.0 Ranger with an ancient engine and pretty much no oil cooling, nor big brakes, could haul 5000lbs, 500lbs tongue weight... a Forester with current technology, and good Subaru parts from larger vehicles' bins should have no trouble.

 

Frankly, the same thing ought to be possible with fewer modifications for the Tribeca itself.

 

Give people the option to haul a utility trailer, or a family boat, or other power-toys behind the vehicle, not just a puny little wannabe option for towing barely more than the weight of a little dinky empty trailer.

 

Maybe they could actually build a reliable, versatile vehicle, and capitalize on their recent successes of being on the receiving end of american people down-sizing out of more extravagant vehicles, usually SUVS, and looking for something with more value.

 

Value is king... and Subaru could capitalize on that much more than they currently are. But they would have to listen, instead of dictate to customers.

 

I don't really need either vehicles, but I know people who would love it. My dad needs a replacement for his AWD V6 Pacifica, and the big criteria are a generous size interior for general comfort, unlike Jeeps (which he has had an earlier GC, and liked it... but not current models. He hates the b-pillar intrusion into the interior's shoulder space on both the GC and the Wrangler Unlimited with the roll cage.) Not just comfortable around town, but for multiple long-mileage trips per year, including the winter months.

 

2: That can pull his fishing boat, and gear inside the vehicle, back and forth to canada and minnesota. (hundreds, to nearly a thousand miles one way.), and get him around in the winter as a volunteer firefighter. He has to get to the fire station regardless of the weather or road conditions.

 

Off-roading is not that much of a demand. Low ride height might be a bit too far, but average car to CUV ride height would be fine. Most of these vehicles cover the better part of a hundred or two hundred thousand highway miles in their useful lives... but especially in the case of CUVs like Tribeca or Pacifica, most buyers put very few to none-at-all "off-road" miles on them, beyond parking on an impromptu gravel or grass parking area, or something.

 

Tribeca might do that sort of job now... but could do that even better than it currently does. Done right, even a Forester with an H6 and properly equipped, could do that, although perhaps not quite as comfortably, interior-wise.

[ama0787]

I love the tribeca. I took one home for the weekend to get my g/f to buy it and to this day she regrets it she went with a Saturn Aura to please her father and doesn't care for it at all and still loves the Tribeca 3 years later and regrets her purchase.

 

Not to mention the Tribeca was only a few thousand more than the Aura she purchased. She got the worst deal ever on that Saturn they claim no mark up/ haggling and that the price is what it is; but on Saturn site I could not build a Aura to equal the price she paid adding ever possible option acessory etc... TERRIBLE CARS!

[legandrex]

I would be surprised if Subaru continues with the Tribeca in the coming years. I think they made the new Outback larger and taller to kill off the Tribeca. Produce less and less and people will get the Outback instead. When sales are so slow they can justify killing the vehicle. The Tribeca market is so flooded with good competition it is difficult to sell enough to justify the engineering and development costs in my opinion.

 

In retrospect I wish we never would have leased the Tribeca in March of 06. We sold my wife's 05 Legacy GT-Limited Wagon-with manual in Atlantic Blue and Black leather for it. I wish I still had that car!!! At least our Tribeca is also Atlantic Blue Pearl which is probably my favorite Subaru color.

[Guest]

I wanted to like Tribeca, I spent quite a bit of time test driving one. Handling and particularly steering feel was pretty bad and I am comparing it to our body-on-frame 2002 Suzuki XL-7 (which actually is an incredibly well handling truck, beat BMW 3-series per Edmunds). Beca feels larger than it is... and then it feels cramped inside. The controls and ergonomics of the dash are laughable, I don't understand why it was "award wining". I guess the award givers have penchant for crappy design with form over function. The 3rd row is useless. And I am not even talking about the leg room (or lack of it), but the difficulty of entry.

 

I was semi seriously looking at it as a replacement for the Suzuki (need 7 passanger capacity occasionaly). No way, except the engine it's a overall failure, and it won't be missed once it departs next year...

[IwannaSportSedan]

I am not sure where people got the idea that a vehicle with four normal hinged doors could successfully incorporate three rows of seats.

 

At least the doors on a 2+2 coupe are nice and wide. A 4-door SUV has narrow door openings.

 

seriously... if you need 7 seats... a wide sliding side door, or two of them, is much more useable. It is sad to see that even VANS have been run asunder by the push for SUVs. (which I still maintain is a function of CAFE regulation double standards, and people's tastes follow the trend, rather than set it.)

[Guest]

I am not sure where people got the idea that a vehicle with four normal hinged doors could successfully incorporate three rows of seats.

 

I don't know, but I can confirm the success in 2001-2006 XL-7

 

Adequate amount of room in 3rd row with easy access (my 5"11' frame fits there fine). The car has extremely long rear door that make it really work. I compared it to Nissan Pathfinder (current), a much much larger car with totally unusable and inaccessible 3rd row.

 

You of all people with penchant for quirky cars, should not make the mainstream assumption "3 rows = minivan only"...

 

http://view.admission.net/abc/carsads/_CARSADS_f7cbcac92d5e31cd48db5376c43378eb/i-1.JPG

[legandrex]

I continue to think Subaru should get out of the Tribeca size SUV game. There is alot of pretty good competition out there playing the same awd game. New Kia Sorento looks very nice. If I want a small or midsize 4/5 door awd car not many options so the impreza/legacy is the way to go. However, at 30 large there are several small SUV's that I would have to consider and it seems Subaru hasn't been winning that comparison very much during the last 4 years.

[The B4]

The Forester is the most awarding winning small suv there is... it plays in the sorento field. The Tribeca plays in the Pilot/Highlander Midsized crossover field.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I do like quirky vehicles.

 

And it does look like that big SUV has a long rear door. But most do not, and seem to be a contortionist effort to access the back row. The pictured SUV seems like that one is an exception, rather than a rule.

 

Plus, the longer the rear door, the more sense it makes to have it slide, rather than open wide in a parking stall. That is the genius of the SkyDeck concept... almost no increase in width to fully open all of the side doors to gain access. The down-side would be trying to engineer a vehicle like that without a B-pillar, to have good side impact resistance. There would basically have to be a false B-pillar built into the front edge of the sliding door, that would lock itself into place when the door closes, and then the front door latch to that, and pretty heavy side intrusion beams in both doors.

 

But then again, I like alternate door configurations for long coupe doors, too. Forward-and-up butterfly doors like McLaren F1, SLR, and MC4-12C make the most sense there. better than gull wings for not hitting your head on the door, and being more likely to reach the open door from the seated position. And not as vertically demanding as a jack-knife door, but not as narrow, either.

 

Anyway, back on the minivan/people-mover issue...

 

Other than CAFE classification pressure on the automakers, and automakers advertising and swaying public opinion toward SUVs, I find it unfortunate that wagons for 4-5 passengers, and minivans/vans for more passengers have gone so far out of fashion. Not just slightly unpopular, but pretty much shunned.

 

With current "fashion" for efficiency... why aren't sleeker, normal-ride-height vehicles not recovering some appeal for the multi-passenger crowd?

 

Not everyone needs "rugged off-road" capability to haul passengers around on paved roads, and maybe tow a boat along or something. Cars and Vans used to be able to tow like that... now it is either a ubiquitous SUV, or a very paltry choice of other alternatives.

 

Frankly, I am sorry to see the Toyota Previa no longer being developed. front-mid-engined... laid-over inline 4 (almost a horizontal-inline... would have been cool to offer a boxer...) available AWD. I'd love to get a nice one, and dress it up like a Star Fleet Shuttlecraft. A white Previa looks almost like one anyway.

 

Unfortunately interesting vehicles like the Previa, or the VW Transporter Syncro AWD, haven't been further developed with new technology, and incorporated new advancements that normal front-engined minivans, or even CUVs have received in the last few years...

 

Creativity and inventiveness seem to have gone away... they'd rather build camry-based everything, all with cheap componentry that doesn't fail safely, because it is cheaper/more profitable.

 

Subaru is closer to it's history of innovation and quality, but even Subaru seems to be starting down the sell-out and cheap-out route, as a company, and moreso in the US, than from the parent company in Japan.

[Guest]

That was the deal breaker for me when I was looking for a minivan, especially of early 2000 era - no AWD (or 4x4).

 

The XL-7 is truly unique find... ours has 5MT transmission. Probably the only 7-passenger vehicle with one in the U.S market in recent years (the only other, but 6-passenger, would be Mazda 5). My wife refuses to drive slushboxes just like me, so these were our only options for people movers.

 

And btw, it's not that big, it's not any longer than 05 Legacy wagon, and not really wider.

 

As far as people movers something like JDM Mazda MPV or JDM Honda Odyssey would be cool. Too bad they are not coming, and definitely not with MT transmission.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I thought the USDM Mazda 5 had a stick shift option?

 

But yes... there seems to be a lack of product diversity all over the automotive landscape. It is unfortunate that the auto industry is such a hugely expensive industry to get into... it would probably cost hundreds of millions to just get started, let alone get established, and get multiple products certified/federalized.

 

A company that could specialize in non-conventional cars, something that other companies don't seem to want to build anymore... is something prohibitively expensive to even contemplate.

 

I am hoping that the advent of dual-clutch automated gearboxes will supplant some of the hydraulic-automatic versions... and give a bit of the best of both worlds... automatic shifting for people who want it... but clutch-based physical connection between the engine and the road, and more driver control in manual mode.

 

Even shiftable hydraulic automatics are slow to respond, and still have a dampening fluid-connection torque converter, which I agree is far less than ideal.

 

As much as my wife and I also don't like automatics... we all seem to be in the minority, especially on vehicles that are less sport-oriented anymore. Even economy cars that used to use manuals for economical reasons, are now using CVTs and such.

[ama0787]

I like the interior of the tribeca a lot doesnt make me feel cramped just makes me feel like the space is my own I think it would do the same for the passenger... It reminds me of my supra dash converted to a suv also with more color...... I am comparing it to other suv Ive driven explorer grand cherokee and all of them were not winners at all in handling I accidentily got the jeep on 2 wheels I thought I would never approve of a suv again after that but when I took the tribeca home for the weekend I definately preffered it. I would choose it for my g/f over the forestor which is suprising given I love turbos so much

[Guest]

I thought the USDM Mazda 5 had a stick shift option?

 

Yes, I mentioned it.

[Verwilderd]

If Subaru does to the Tribeca what it did to the Baja, this should be the last year for the Beca. For some reason with Subaru, when they are going to make a change or the vehicle isn't selling well, rather than make them cheaper, they make them more expensive and add more "stuff".

 

As far as numbers go, I will say that part of the reason for the Tribeca's failing numbers is due to the lack of inventory. I know we get many people wanting them, but we almost never have one in stock. As soon as we get one, it's usually gone within a week max. As for the Forester, one reason sales are seemingly slowing is because of the Outback. Most people who were originally interested in the Forester end up choosing the Outback once they ride in it as you really get a fair amount more vehicle for not much more in price. On the other hand, Foresters are also doing well still because a lot of dealerships have tons and will sell them extremely cheap. So when we get the Outback customer who wants one we don't have, we will offer the Forester at a great deal. There are a fair amount who will end up buy the Forester solely for that reason....especially those who need a new vehicle right away....because the waits on Outbacks can be quite long.

 

As for the Impreza....well.....there's not much to be said. That is more or less a younger person's car and I think Subaru has dropped the ball on it as there is nothing exciting about the Impreza. And for those who like the body styling, there's always the Mazda 3 which (at least up until the smilely face design) is very similar to the Impreza except that is offers a more "fun to drive" feel. Many younger people want a "cool" car and the Impreza just really isn't that car. As far as the WRX though, it still sells fairly well in that everytime we get one of those in, it goes out very fast. The major issue with this vehicle (engines aside) is the lack of inventory.....especially with the 5 door. I think there are only 5 or 6 5-door WRX's in the whole state of Texas currently (this is with both the base and premium combined).

 

As far as the legacy, we don't sell many, but I think it's slowly catching on. It's one of those cars where people may not always love the looks, but most seem to really enjoy the ride and interior. Yes there are definitely areas where Subaru "cheaped" out on, but I think all in all, people still seem to like the interior.

 

So sum it up though....Subaru's #1 issue right now (imho) is a lack of inventory. Normally this is good for the seller except that dealerships are soo starved for deals, that they are giving away cars when normally they shouldn't. Typically when demand is high and supply is low, prices go up, not down. This isn't the case. So because of this sales are staying high and as a result, Subaru can't keep up with demand. In addition, the Indiana plant is soo focused on producing Outbacks, they the Beca especially and the Legacy are put on the back burner. As far as the STi and WRX, I heard those are short in supply because of SOA not ordering the correct vehicles at the correct time. Because they were giving them away at the end of 08, the stopped ordering as many and now that there aren't many left, they are upping the order....but that's roughly 6 months behind.

 

So there's my $0.02.

 

Lastly, someone mentioned the issues on the rex. The recall back in 08 was due to an oil supply line on Turbo vehicles. This didn't apply to the 09-10's. Then when Subaru refreshed the rex at the end of 08, there was a separate recall for them for certain vins.

[TSiWRX]

Lastly, someone mentioned the issues on the rex. The recall back in 08 was due to an oil supply line on Turbo vehicles. This didn't apply to the 09-10's. Then when Subaru refreshed the rex at the end of 08, there was a separate recall for them for certain vins.

 

What I meant was this:

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1695936

 

- specifically:

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28488944&postcount=658

 

^ My screen-name there is "LGT+WRX".

[GTTuner]

I wanted to like Tribeca, I spent quite a bit of time test driving one. Handling and particularly steering feel was pretty bad and I am comparing it to our body-on-frame 2002 Suzuki XL-7 (which actually is an incredibly well handling truck, beat BMW 3-series per Edmunds). Beca feels larger than it is... and then it feels cramped inside. The controls and ergonomics of the dash are laughable, I don't understand why it was "award wining". I guess the award givers have penchant for crappy design with form over function. The 3rd row is useless. And I am not even talking about the leg room (or lack of it), but the difficulty of entry.

 

I was semi seriously looking at it as a replacement for the Suzuki (need 7 passanger capacity occasionaly). No way, except the engine it's a overall failure, and it won't be missed once it departs next year...

 

 

I have to agree with everything in bold here. Unclemat is right on the money with how I feel about this vehicle. I would add again the brakes are silly bad, low mushy pedal. I wouldn't say it is a complete fail but def. not a vehicle I would want to drive on a daily basis.

[SLegacy99]

The competition is less ugly than the Tribeca. They are cheaper. They have more power and get better gas mileage doing it. ....Tribeca has a long way to go. Why would I buy a Tribeca when I could get a Highlander or an Edge? That being said, I don't think it should be eliminated, but it does need improvement.

[IwannaSportSedan]

I have to say that the Edge and MKX are looking pretty decent in that market segment.

 

I don't need any of those cars, but a new face-lifted MKX with a full-width rear light bar tailgate put back on from the previous generation... lowered and raked just a slight bit, with the sport appearance package dark chrome, instead of the full bling...

 

If I did need that kind of vehicle, it would be hard to get more stylish... but I would still wish it had a Subaru drivetrain.

 

And by that, I mean an improved Subaru drivetrain, that can handle the EZ36 tuned to it's potential, without fragging the gearbox. If Ford can make their 3.7 do more than 300hp... the EZ36 should be able to, as well... if it weren't handicapped for the 5EAT.

 

It continues to irk me that in every segment Subaru competes in, they have the potential for the best engine and could have the best drivetrain... but other companies, and usually FoMoCo brands, beat the pants off of Subaru's styling.

 

In terms of looks...

Mazda 3 > Impreza, especially in the 4-door version.

Fusion > Legacy

Edge/MKX > 5-pass Tribeca OR Outback.

Escape/Mariner ~= Forester, but Escape/Mariner should be easy to beat, style-wise.

 

I really badly wish that Subaru would figure out that having GOOD styling would HELP them sell their good chassis and drivetrain setup.

 

They need to figure out that the styling being an OBSTACLE to overcome, is a needless problem, and that they should un-encumber themselves from that obstacle.

 

Appliance buyers would like it... style is usually appreciated, even superficially.

Enthusiast buyers would really appreciate it, for not having to rationalize buying a car that they can't bring themselves to look at... by having a car that they actually like to look at.

 

Certain people around here dog on the BL/BP Legacy for having faults, but it was not an ugly car to look at. Even people who know nothing about cars, and can't even tell what a Legacy GT is still look at mine, and approve of the way it looks. And usually Subaru is the LAST company they would guess it comes from, unless they know that Subarus sometimes have hood scoops.

[GTTuner]

As the resident "Ford hater" I really like what Ford is doing. If an AWD, Ecoboost 4cyl Fusion came out I'd buy it.

[SLegacy99]

As the resident "Ford hater" I really like what Ford is doing. If an AWD, Ecoboost 4cyl Fusion came out I'd buy it.

 

Ditto. I will definately test drive a Fusion when I go to replace the Legacy, but a 6MT AWD SHO model would probably be the only one I would buy...other than the hybrid, but I'm not giving up my MT.

 

Anywho, I would consider a 2.0L ecoboost Edge well before the Tribeca. Not fearing the small displacement, this is engine supposedly can move this people hauler adequately. Though I doubt that Ford will offer it. Maybe.

[captainhook]

Fusion + SHO 3.5TT WTF! Too bad I'm done modding my DD after this thing and won't be looking for a car like this in the future.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Ditto. I will definately test drive a Fusion when I go to replace the Legacy, but a 6MT AWD SHO model would probably be the only one I would buy...other than the hybrid, but I'm not giving up my MT.

 

Anywho, I would consider a 2.0L ecoboost Edge well before the Tribeca. Not fearing the small displacement, this is engine supposedly can move this people hauler adequately. Though I doubt that Ford will offer it. Maybe.

 

There was just an article on Autoblog about the EcoBoost 4 powering camo-ed face-lifted Ford Edge mules.

 

Ford Edge and upcoming Explorer are probably going to spear-head the EcoBoost 4, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it in the Fusion/Milan/MKZ, as well.

 

but manual gearbox, especially manual+AWD, might be a tall order for Ford. They have an abysmal history of only offering manuals on the very most base trim line, not on the upper-feature trim lines, and pretty much never pairing manual and AWD together.