ydeardorff Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Hello all, This is my first post in this forum. I just recently purchased a running 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon for 60 bucks. She runs, and is complete, although not running right, perhaps you could shed some light on her for me. First of all the Piror owner stated the entire cooling system had been replaced, this includes rad, hoses, thermostat, everything minus I think the water pump. She stated the car would over heat after 20 miles or so. OK, for my diagnosis thus far. When the car runs she sounds like shes running on 3 cylinders. I filled the radiator to the top, put the cap back on and test ran her. she runs rough at idle, if the revs are raised to 1700 to 2K the engine cleans up and fires on all four cylinders and will return to idle and run clean for abit, until the gas is pressed again, which then Im back to 3 again. The coolant seems to disappear out of site after a few minutes of running. Yet no evidence of leakage, nor coolant being burned (no white smoke/or steam out of the exhaust) No water in the oil, nor oil in the coolant either. On the dash the check engine light and the ABS lights are lit. The brakes work, but I haven't checked them yet for wear. There also seems to be a small knock which is also intermittent as well. This sounds to me like a failing, but not yet failed head gasket. The knock sounds like it could be a lifter going or gone bad. The intermittent nature of this is puzzling, and the lack of normal evidence of coolant leaking, or being burnt it also causing me to scratch my head. Any help here? Im a mechanic by trade, but I just got the car and have no manual yet. My plan is to fix this car, and use it this winter. Later, Ill be pulling the EJ22 motor and putting it into a kit car. But for now Any points in the right direction would be of great time savings, and help. Thank you yaughn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 How many miles? These cars have a natural thump that closely resembles an inline 4 running on 3 cylinders, especially at idle. Maybe it's just the thumping of the boxer you're hearing? Since you're a mechanic, this is probably a stretch. I'm sure you know the drill, check the ignition coil, plug wires, and plugs first, just to be on the safe side (Cheap stuff first), then worry about the big stuff. It could be a head gasket, but you'd get coolant in the oil. The EJ22 engine has pretty sturdy head gaskets, unlike the pre-05 EJ25 engines, which require new head gaskets about as often as timing belts. Pull the spark plugs and see what they look like. As for the coolant drain, it would be one Hell of a head gasket leak to suck through all that coolant in a couple minutes. If this were the case you would certainly see it in the oil and out the exhaust immediately. Maybe the coolant disappearing is because the coolant was drained and never refilled, so every time you add fluid you're just filling up the block and heads. Does the car suck through the coolant before it's warmed up/thermostat opens? If you replaced the thermostat it could be leaking from there, as the thermostat housing could've warped over time.. A FLAT surface plate and a couple different grits of sandpaper will take care of this. Only problem is that the location of the thermostat on these cars makes it very easy to diagnose leaks, as gravity will cause drips with any kind of coolant leak. You probably would've noticed a leak there by now. How many miles on this car? Maybe it's piston rings? These engines don't wear out easy, and its not uncommon for them to go 240,000 miles between overhauls. That's the point where the internals start getting tired, but they can go even longer with proper care and preventative maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 This motor is running wierd, See here: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrmnVZ1iPlI]YouTube - My 60 dollar subaru[/ame] Shell purr like a kitten, until you touch the gas, then she sounds to me like I lose either a cylinder or the timing advance is shot. Under acceleration she almost sounds like she has a hole in the mufflers, even though it doesnt. She has about 168K on the clock She supposedly overheats after about 20 miles. after it has its issue, it will pop itself up to an RPM level and clean up, and purr again. This is directly related to pressing on the gas. (TPS???) No oil in the coolant no coolant in the oil plug wires are new engine runs great until you touch the gas (if you slowly raise the rpms it doesnt miss at all) about a cup of coolant dissapears each time I run the car. No evidence of leakage anywhere no steam or white smoke coming out of the exhaust. The entire cooling system has been replaced, radiator, hoses, thermostat, water pump The resevior tank stays full, and the rad doesnt pull collant back in from the tank into it. the tubes are clear, maybe the cap is bad even though its new? The cap does seal well, and you get a hissing sound when the cap is removed when warm. Could this be O2 sensors? HMMM this is boggling me! Any help here? BTW, if you slowly press the gas down to make the revs go up slowly it doesnt miss at all, until you let off the gas again, rinse repeat... Anyone got any scooby snacks? maybe shes hungry... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 This is strange. It almost sounds like an exhaust leak in the picture, but it also resembles what happnens when you lose a cylinder. I'd say go around the engine unplugging each fuel injector or plug wire one at a time and see if it sounds different. If you come across one that makes no change when you give it throttle then you've found the lazy cylinder. Does also sound like there's a valve tick, but the EJ22 had problems with headers and header gaskets (At least mine does) which could cause the same effect. The 02 sensor would make it bog, it wouldn't shut down one cylinder entirely unless that cylinder already had problems to begin with, IE piston rings or fuel injector issues. Even then, it would take a lot to make it drop a cylinder completely. It might still be burning the coolant. Maybe the head gasket is only shot near one cylinder, causing only one cylinder to inkate coolant. This could cause that cylinder to not fire, and could also account for the loss of coolant with no leaks. It could take a while for the coolant leak to make its way to the oil if the piston rings are in good enough shape. 168K isn't that much for an EJ22. Mine is at 153,500 now and I'll tell you what, compression is the one thing it's got going for it. If the cap is hissing when you take it off it should be fine. If it hisses a little bit when the engine is warm, or if you shut the engine off while it's warm it's leaking. If it were leaking you would also notice steam rising from it while the engine is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 I noticed a little steam when it first sarted up, but it hadnt been run in 3 months so Im sure that was it. Whats wierd is that it goes away, unless you get on the gas. It corrects itself. then as soon as you romp on the gas, let the chugging begin. You leave it alone and it sounds fine. Wierd, Ill try that this weekend if I can, but with no manual as of yet, Im shooting abit blind and running on only my past with other motors. It might be worth just going ahead and replacing the head gaskets anyway. I was wondering if the TPS was going bad, as if it was giving bum info, it would cause the timing to be off, and the spark needs to be advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Could be. If the timing is already off, and the TPS is bad, the weakest cylinder would be the first to drop. If it was the TPS you would also notice extremely hesitant response from throttle inputs. IE, you step on the gas and the engine will chug for a second then spike up reluctantly. When you let off again it would be kind of sluggish as well. This would be because of an improper air/fuel ratio and messed up ignition timing. Unplug it and see how much of a change you can feel. One other thing that I noticed with older plug wires is that they like to fall off. The boot isn't always tight around the ignition coil. It can slide off and pull the metal connector out of the coil. I fixed this issue with new plug wires and 4 zip ties. Never again have I had any misfires in the rain. This could cause intermittent cylinder misfires based on the resistance the coil must overcome to send a spark through that wire. While you're at this, check to see if the coil is even sending a spark to that cylinder at all when you give it the gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 Now I wish I had one of those light up spark plug tips LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 OK, ran her up again this morning, I pulled the car up onto ramps to elevated the nose, to possibly help bleed out any air. Bled the system for 20 minutes while the motor was running (just left the cap off) Every rev led to a few bubbles percolating up, I then topped her off again. I ran the heater while the motor was at running temp, no gurgling, and nice hot air as one would expect came out. The temp gauge stayed right dead in the middle as one would expect. I then turned on max A/C, still nothing, different I left her running until the fans kicked on, still the temp stayed right where it was supposed to be. The cap was placed back on, and I kept squeezing the upper rad hose as I could feel air in it. All this did was proceed to fill the over flow tank, till it ran over. I waited until the upper hose was almost too hot to touch, then reached down and grabbed the bottom hose, to find it nearly cold. This tells me bad thermostat, or placed in backwards. Can you do that with these cars? Can anyone post up a pic or describe the way the thermostat is supposed to be installed? In case its not obvious. Like I stated before the rad is new, the hoses are new, the water pump is supposed to be new, I would presume the thermostat would be replaced when the pump was, but then thats what I would do... And it still stammers on accelleration. I tapped on the MAS, ICL, TPS with no changes to the idle, I then pulled the injector connectors one at a time. Pulled number one, it didnt like it but kept running, pulled 3 it died, pulled 2 same as 1, pulled 4 same as 1. I suppose I could check the timing to see if its advancing properly or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 I tested all the injectors and they are working fine. I used the bleed screw to vent off additional air in the system, either there was alot of air in the system, or its getting air from somewhere in the system. The lower hose finally got hot too, so it not the thermostat I turned the AC back on to have things tested under a load, then the motor started surging from 500 rpms to 1500, and the clutches on the AC compressor started kicking off and on. Maybe thats a new problem, Im not worried about the AC anyways, Ill be using this car for the winter. I tried to check the timing using a standard timing light, on plug number 1 wire, with no evidence of timing marks, even on plugs 2, 3, 4 same thing. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 Finally got it,... The head gasket(s) are blown. There is a constant stream of bubbles flowing into the overflow res while the car is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydeardorff Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 The ABS light was a unpluged connector by the passenger headlight. I plugged it back in and the light went out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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