ksnh Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Please read this through before killing me w/"search, newbie" posts! I did in fact search, with disjointed and (at times conflicting) results. I'm about ready to buy an '05 GT Wagon (5MT, non-Limited), and want to get some fuel economy and octane feedback from you GT owners who use the car as a medium-to-high mileage daily driver. I'm especially looking for moderate drivers who rarely get into the turbo during their daily commute. I know I won't be the only driver in the country who will try to justify their GT purchase with a light commuter foot, so please try to cut me a little slack with the "if you want to dance, you've got to pay the piper" posts . It's a no-brainer that the sight of S-turns, on-ramps, and school zones (just kidding!) will override any weak attempt at restraint, but I want to hear from those of you who actually try to keep your mpg numbers in the 20's. I've also traveled the whole spectrum of dealer advice trying to establish minimum octane requirements. Some say "premium only", with no hedging. The majority say that mid-grade will work fine w/some performance loss under load, and a small minority say that the GT's engine management software can deal with 87 octane albeit with somewhat more performance loss under load. They all agee that whatever the octane, consistent pinging is a sure ticket to an engine rebuild. And finally, I want to confirm that there are no 16" wheels (steel or alloy) that will clear the GT brakes. Search results were not encouraging, but I've seen one particular wheel work while others don't, etc. I just want to be sure. I plan to run a dedicated winter wheel/tire set, and I'm not crazy about ponying up for a 17" combo. And if 17" is "it", then what's the narrowest (snow) tire size that has been successful with the OEM rolling diameter? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eamiller Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you are going to be driving highway or constant speed daily drives, you'll be in the 23-24mpg range with ease, even with dipping into boost occasionally.. My work commute is all of 5 miles but drive significant distances on the weekends, so my overall mileage hovers around 20.1MPG.. As far as the grade differences, yes the knock sensor will pull timing when you put in a lower grade gasoline.. However, I wouldn't rely on the knock sensor in the long term.. Also, as an engine ages, it naturally requires higher octane due to carbon deposits in the combustion chamber.. I think if you look at the price difference over the long term, it's not really significant on a nearly $30,000 car. For wheels, there are cheap 17" wheels out there.. You can easily find 17" wheels for around $100 a piece from tirerack.com... They might not be best looking or lightest wheels, but they'll do fine for winter tires and look a heck of a lot better than steelies. The front brakes are pretty tight with the 17" wheels, I can't imagine getting a 16" on there. I also doubt that anyone around here as tried.. You'll probably have a hard time finding one with the right offset and bolt spacing anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallispec Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you're worried about being able to use 16' rims, have good gas mileage, and you're not all about the constant speed --- you should seriously consider the Legacy I over the GT. Just my opinion. With that said, thiere are no 16" that i am aware of that fit over the stock brakes. It should be easy enough to swap to the legacy I brakes to accomodate smaller wheels. With a decent set of all weather tires on 17's though, you should be good all year round. (honestly i've had no problems with the moderate amount of snow we've gotten here in VA one the stock RE92's. (i'm sure its much worse up north though) as far as gas goes - Yes, you're car will work with 87 octane. I would highly suggest you not push your luck with it though. Premium is a dollar more each fill up and is worth the peace of mind not worrying about pinging. (again, if you can't afford a dollar more each fill up, check out the legacy I ) lastly, gas mileage. I drive a sedan, but the difference should be minor. I constantly get 23mpg city driving, and 29highway. This is mostly calm driving, with the occasional hard pull merging into traffic or when i'm feeling ancy, etc.. I'm sure thier is room for improvement in those numbers if i really were to ease up on the throttle. ( note, this is based actual fill-up computation, not the trip computers guess at MPG) Hopefully you'll get some more informative posts here in a little while - But the GT is a great car and i'm sure that you'll be really happy with it once you get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 Right now, at 3600 miles (on my A trip meter), I'm averaging 21.7, with stop and go commute and the occasional weekend freeway/mountain run. My S&G commute is rarely into boost for the 9 mile duration. When I get free air ahead, I roll slowly into the go pedal because I know that just over the hill, traffic is going to be stopped. I start looking for a gas station about 250/260 miles when I have 70 miles (1/4 tank) left in the tank. When I'm on the freeway/mountain run (on my B trip meter), I average about 23.5 with some significant, sustained boost, followed by cruise control at 75/80 mph. WRT octane requirement - A FI engine is going to run hotter and stay hotter, even under light load, so running higher octane makes sense. Since you're looking at (in the California market) about 10-20 cents per gallon difference, between 87 and 91 or about $1.50 to $3.00 per tankful on a 15 gallon reload. On average, that works out to about $15.00 more per month in premium vs. regular gas costs. That's reasonable insurance to keep the engine out of the detonation zone and from suffering any short term performance deficits or long term reliability issues. HTH SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I have a mixed commute, about 22 miles each way and about 75% highway. I've never been under 20 mpg since Day 1. In fact, it's getting better as I get more miles on it (1500 now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I you are interested enough in economy to consider fueling a GT with 87 octane, do not buy the car. While the knock sensor will pull timing to avoid a meltdown, it is a reactive process. In other words you will have experienced knocking and pinging before the correction happens. Over time this is not doing your motor any favors. Many here that are more performance oriented will only use certain brands of gas to optimize performance. While I'm personally a little skeptical of this, the LGT, as many forced induction car do, seems to like prefer as high quality fuel as possible. In term of mileage, I have seen at best 25 mpg on the freeway. I'm averaging about 21 mpg in mixed driving now on my 5MT with 8000 miles. With regards to 16" wheels, there might be one or two out there that will clear the brakes, but those will very likely be more expensive than most 17" wheels. Seriously, given your priorities I don't think the LGT is the car for you. You could go with the 2.5i, but for the price, I think you might be happier with my "other" car, a Mazda 6s. My fiancee's 6s (V6) model AT gets 27-28 mpg on the freeway, and is speced to run on 87 octane. For me that is practically economy car mileage in a car that certainly doesn't drive like one. It also fits 16" just fine. A loaded 6s can be had for around $23K, which is a very good value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretm1 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 bought demo lgt sedan auto in december with 3k-now i have 17k-i love the car and drive it fairly aggressively. average 20.1-19.8 all around with most of my miles being hi-way. on "stand alone 300 mile interstate 90 trips to upstate new york or w.mass-i'll average 22-24 for that trip without babying it. always run 91 or 93 octane-if the car allowed lower i'd use it-not worth the risk. we have same emission regs as ca. so my car isn't set up any different. it is very difficult to drive this car (because it is indeed a turbo assisted engine) by "laying off it" This is not my beautiful car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksnh Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Thanks much for the replies. Maybe my original questions were misleading; if so, here goes: I want to know what to expect for mileage up front, and I want to establish the minimum octane that I can run without screwing up the engine. I drive 45K miles /year, and if each octane jump above 87 is roughly a dime's increase per gallon, then @22.5 mpg, each 225 miles (22.5 x 10) is a buck more. Each 2250 miles is 10 bucks more; 22500 a hundred bucks more, and my 45K will be around $200 more. So the jump to mid-grade in a year is at least $200; a jump to premium is minimum$400 more per year. Wringing that last HP out of the engine is less important to me than, say, buying a short throw shifter. So if the engine electronics support mid-grade or lower, I'm perfectly willing to take that premium "premium" and turn it into other stuff for the car that is more tangible to me. But in response to your octane warnings: I work on machinery for a living. I still have most of my hearing, and I'd drink hemlock rather than listen to my portable mortgage ping. And I'll go only as low in octane rating as I can justify to a warranty arbiter who's ordered a lab test of a fuel line gas sample! And don't worry. The car will be tossed; the gearbox stirred, and the turbo spooled. Just not while I'm working, and not while I'm near city lights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 If you are concerned about the warranty, perhaps the bold lettered word on the gas cap should serve as adaquate warning as to the octane grade required: "PREMIUM UNLEADED FUEL ONLY". It's old and tired, but you have to pay to play. Seriously, given the miles you drive and your concern for economy give the Mazda 6 wagon a look. It is a fine handling car, at least as good if not better than the LGT stock vs. stock. Definately less torque, but still a quick and satifying car that will be cheaper to purchase and operate. If you want the shear grunt the LGT offers, then pony up the $$$ and put the right gas in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksnh Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Seriously, given the miles you drive and your concern for economy give the Mazda 6 wagon a look. It is a fine handling car, at least as good if not better than the LGT stock vs. stock. Definately less torque, but still a quick and satifying car that will be cheaper to purchase and operate. If you want the shear grunt the LGT offers, then pony up the $$$ and put the right gas in. I'd lose some of that economy converting the Mazda to AWD. I do lots of winter driving in northern New England, and want AWD. Can you think of another AWD wagon with more pop than the standard non-turbo Subaru 2.5 engine, and with better seats than the base Outbacks or Legacys, for around $24k? It needs to be an '05 (with little or no miles) to fit my work travel compensation package. Kinda narrows it down, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondcookie Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 GT Wagon 80 miles a day (to and from work, M-F) - 98% hwy (i live right off an interstate) - last 20 minutes of the hwy is stop and go .. yes on the hwy - damn MD drivers =( I'm just about to turn over 2000 miles. Just for giggles I wanted to see how far I could go before the fuel light came on. 360 miles. I usually pull into the gas station around 330. At 330, there's probably 1-2 needletip width of space above E. My average mpg according to the dash is 26.9. I usually drive at two speeds - 40 or 70. 0-40 and 40-70 I'm a maniac. Usually I'm trying to merge or trying to get around the sleeping old lady in the crusier who's driving in the fast lane. I use premium and my bi-weekly fillup costs now 28$. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unilat Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 You can see my results here: http://www.calvars.com/unilat/auto/subaru/Fuel_Mileage.xls These are mostly commuter miles, 75% highway, 20 miles one way, five speed sedan. I've seen 28.8 on a highway stretch (computer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
live- Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Have you considered Forester XT? If you really don't like the Subaru cloth seats (I really like them, but who knows), the Forester 2.5 XT Premium has the leather seating and moonroof for about the same price as a standard (non-limited) LGT Wagon. The engine has plenty of pop (210 HP turbo) and would seem to be about what you are looking for. Retail is $27,395 but invoice is only $25,237, so you could probably get it OTD for under $27k. I know that's a bit more than $24k, but it's $2000 less than a LGT Limited and would be a bit better on snowy NE roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunk10 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Interesting thread. I may not have any idea what I'm talking about, but wouldn't using a lower than recommended octane give lower gas mileage results due to pulled timing? If you are that hell bent on using the cheapest gas possible, I'm not sure why you absolutely must have a turbo car. Does the 3.0 H6 require premium? Perhaps you could consider the Forester as mentioned above. for better info on them, check out the forums at http://www.subaruforester.com (I almost bought one myself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Does the 3.0 H6 require premium? As far as I recall they recommend it, but may not require it. Dunno about power without the premium though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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