Coyote Chris Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 My wife's '04 Outback runs great but we dont know what to do with her round the town gopher car, her 1996 Stick shift Legacy 2.2l with 300,000 on it. Till a week ago, it ran fine but she tried to start it and it cranks fine but no cylinder firing. I tried starting fluid but no luck. I pulled a plug lead, put in a bolt in the lead, and held it the bolt near the intake manafold. No spark. The old Chilton's manual, No. 8259, if very poor about how one gets trouble codes... Is there a way to get trouble codes without having an OBDii scanner? I dont mind buying a scanner as it could be of use further down the road. I figure this is going to be a coil pack, ignitor, computer, or manybe a crank angle sensor or cam angle sensor...(at least the fuse is good!) The only real value of the car is as a backup and something to keep miles off of her road car. It would probably be worth a few hundred bucks to get running....any quick and dirty ideas? JUnkyard part shotgunning maybe? I hold an aircraft mechanics license so I know just about enough to get into trouble.... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Check the wires, and certainly the coilpack. If the sensors are bad, the car would most likely at least start, or try to turn over. But, you sure no spark? With 300,000 miles, when is the last time you replaced the timing belt? It could have snapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 At least with a the 1996 Legacy 2.2 the motor is non-interference so if the timing belt did indeed snap the valves aren't bent. Snapped timing belt = stationary cam shafts = no cam position sensor reading = no start. I personally would suspect something less expensive first, but a snapped timing belt is certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 When cranking over, does it sound like it's loping? If some of the valves are open and stationary when cranking the engine over, compression would be reduced in those cylinders causing a loping sound when you turn the key. This is one telltale sign that the timing belt is gone, but it could still be gone with all the valves closed, to this trick isn't 100% reliable. Other than that I'd have to agree that the cam position sensors, crank sensor, or coil pack would be the culprit. Where to start is up to you. Go to a junkyard and find 1 2.2L that looks good, if it's got enough parts you can try to start the junkyard motor and see if it's got a spark, but this isn't always the case. You could also grab the crank and cam sensors just for giggles. They might not even charge you for them. If you install one at a time you will be able to tell which one is the culprit. When you're all done buy the sensor that's the culprit at an autoparts store to make sure the used junkyard one isn't going to die in 100 miles. Good luck, have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Chris Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 While the timing belt was changed 40,000 mi ago and four years, it could have broke when she shut down the engine the last time she drove it. Engine sounds normal cranking. I don't suppose there is an easy way to tell by an inspection cover if the belt is broke? I could make my own kinda sorta....by cutting off part of the cam cover and glueing it back on. I would think the easiest thing to do would be to plug in a scanner and at least find out which circuit/sensor is bad....does this car take an OBDii scanner, and if so, where does one plug it in and what are the codes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 By 1996 pretty much all cars in the US were OBD II compliant. Subaru were compliant a year earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bdubs Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The OBD plug is at your left knee behind a little access door. Using a scanner is the only way to get the codes, unfortunately. I know the car doesn't run, so bringing the car to Autozone or Advance Auto isn't that easy. They will scan the codes for free. It wouldn't hurt to check the timing either, it may have jumped a tooth. You may be able to get the DS top front cover off without removing anything else to see what condition it is in at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I think it would have to jump more than just one tooth to not run at all. I've seen engines run after the belt skipped 4 or 5 teeth, but they wouldn't idle, and they sounded like they wanted to bite the dust. Sounds purely electrical at this point anyway. Assuming the cam belt is on the car at all, you should be getting some spark, regardless of it's position because the cam position sensor would still be sending a signal when the engine cranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Chris Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thanks guys! My plan of attack is, when I come back from a trip in a week, is to remove the cam covers and check the belts, then see if a scanner will work with the ignition on and engine not running...then to get a scanner.... I have to agree with Platinum_Racing, all the computer really needs is a crank angle sensor and a cam angle sensor and it should make a spark if the ignitor is good and at least one half of the coil pack is good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsubby Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Most auto parts stores offer free engine scan. Try your local Pep Boys or Advance Auto. See if they can scan it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Chris Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Well, guess what? I went out to the car today and it started....it hasnt run in three weeks and it started alittle hard but was going smoothly after five or ten seconds. Just for fun, I wiggled the sensor wires and tapped on them, but it kept running. The check engine light is on just as it was a year ago when it sailed through the emissions test, so I think the next thing to do is get it scanned....hopefully the trouble codes are all saved....This may be a red herring, but for years now it has also had a trick where, after it is warmed up, and the driver stops for about 20 minutes, the car wont restart for ten minutes or so. It didnt do it very often...maybe once a month.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum_Racing Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 AHA!!! I think I've got it. Fuel pump/fuel pump relay. Had a Nissan that did that. If you slammed the door or the hood really, really hard in anger it would start up fine. Turned out to be a dead spot in the fuel pump. Might be the same on your Leggy. The thing with the Subaru is, if there is any fuel left in the lines the left cylinder bank will suck in all the fuel and try to fire on those 2 cylinders, and the right cylinder bank will get nothing and just crank. This is because the fuel line runs into the left fuel rail first, then from the left side a rubber hose carries the fuel over to the right bank. If there are any "Fumes" in the line, the left 2 cylinders will suck them all up, leaving the right 2 cylinders with nothing. When the engine tries to start, does it lope really bad, like it's got a blown head gasket or something? This is a telltale sign that the car is either out of fuel, or you have a faulty fuel pump/relay. It could also be the coilpack. When the coilpack gets hot resistance increases. I'm thinking that maybe when the engine is cold the coilpack is able to provide spark for the cylinders, and when it warms up it continues to provide spark, but once you shut the car off and try to start it up there isn't enough amperage to overcome the resistance in the warm, blown coilpack since the starter is drawing away all the amperage from the finicky coilpack. Try hooking jumper cables from another car that's running to the Legacy, then start the Legacy. Excuse my madness, I'm just thinking out loud. Sometimes it makes others think and come up with good ideas also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickfast Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 GAH! darnit I was about to suggest a faulty fuel pump. I had an 85 vw cabrio with that symptom, except for the spark problem. OP, did you check all of the cylinders for spark? Maybe you also have a faulty coilpack or something. Either way, get a scanner. They're so cheap nowadays and you'll be able to use it on other OBDII cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Chris Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Thanks guys....just got back from a motorcycle trip to Wyoming and I am soon off to the REno Air races....when this problem was intermittant, I thought about the fuel pump relay and was going to try the starting fluid....but this time when it went dead the fluid didnt help and there was no spark.....it is time for the scanner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickfast Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 CAN I COME?! I am a pilot... I hope to do air races some day. What a rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Chris Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Sure you can go! Where else can you get nine days of entertainment for under $100 bucks!!!! I would have to be dead to miss the air races..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickfast Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Well I meant actually flying in an air race, but that's insanely cheap! 100 for the flight roundtrip? Man I wish our semester started a little later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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