keithk831 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 ...and I have to say I was very disappointed. I don't know if this is the case with all the 5EAT LGTs or not, but when I was stopped at a light and I "mashed" the gas pedal, it hardly moved until the boost built up. It was maybe like a solid 2-3 seconds before it really started going. Made it no fun to drive. The acceleration was fine beyond that. The car I drove was well-maintained (was owned by a sales rep at that dealership and had all the service done as necessary). I was debating between getting a 5EAT (cheaper) and a 5MT, but my experience today makes me disappointed in the 5EAT LGT. Your thoughts? Is this normal? Are there any easy/simple mods that prevent this from happening? I'm sure if I powerbraked it I would have launched better, but who wants to do that all the time (I don't want to kill my tranny)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGT_Ltd_wagon Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Fred Beans Stage 2 "kit" and get the up-pipe the 05 is catted and this will make a huge difference $1275 well spent dollars ( I would get the Cobb catted DP) http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115167 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbrjason Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I think you need to roll onto the throttle more in the 5EAT. I did some experimenting with the one I had, but traded it in within about a week for a 6mt. The 5EAT was definitely not much fun to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heightsgtltd Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 This isn't a car where you "mash" the accelerator it's a 4 cyl turbo not a v8. If you use it right, it's plenty fun to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underground000 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 if your stopped and press the gas it does take a while for it to go, can it be the 3400 stall on the torque converter? but you go get a kick around 4000rpm almost full boost. any other gear even when you downshift it does accel quickly one of the things i love on my 08 is the downshift rev match, and i have an cai so you can hear the bpv, downshift to 2nd at 50, vroom, tuursh (thats how it sounds on stock), roooooom . downshift to 1st at 30 vroom, tuursh, roooooom even though mine is 5eat, i always drive in manual mode, and most of the time i downshift. i love it!! but i wish it is quicker 0-60 in 6.4sec w/out power braking 5eat downshift rev match:) Powder coated wheels: completed:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 This isn't a car where you "mash" the accelerator it's a 4 cyl turbo not a v8. If you use it right, it's plenty fun to drive. I'm used to GM FWD V6s where I can pretty much take off like a rocket from the line (auto trans- but not much power in the top-end). I can't imagine there would be a way to launch better with the 5EAT that would help significantly, though. I understand this is a 4cyl turbo...but my complaint is the tranny. I love driving the 5MT LGT...it feels like there's hardly any lag at all, and you can actually use the low-end torque of the turbo in 1st gear with the 5MT. Driving the 5EAT today felt smooth and simple, and I liked the sport mode w/ the buttons on the steering wheel, but it felt about as fast as my current car...and i'm looking to have a car that's faster than what I currently have. My only deal is this: I have never owned a MT car before. All my cars have been automatics, so I haven't really experienced rush-hour traffic in the city with a MT before. I would imagine I would get used to it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierce88 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 3.23 final drive on the 5eat vs 4.10 on the 5MT... Makes a pretty big difference... -Pierce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 3.23 final drive on the 5eat vs 4.10 on the 5MT... Makes a pretty big difference... -Pierce Wow...didn't realize it was THAT big of a difference. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanjk3 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I had a 2000 Grand Am GT, and yes it had better low end torque than my LGT, but that's about the only thing that was better. My 06 Impreza is the same way, part of it's due to the e-throttle. Simply flooring the gas pedal isn't the best way to get a fast launch. The other big factor is engine design. IIRC the 3400 V6 was rated 175hp, 205 lb/ft torque. It was designed more for low end torque, not top end. H4s have a shorter stroke and less low end torque, but mid and top end power are far better than the 3400 V6. My 06 Impreza 2.5i 4AT has 173hp, 166 lb./ft torque. It feels slower than a GA, but 0-60 is pretty close to a GA. You'll find there's a lot more that can be done to an LGT than a GA. Friends don't let friends drink cheap beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhook Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 ...and I have to say I was very disappointed. I don't know if this is the case with all the 5EAT LGTs or not, but when I was stopped at a light and I "mashed" the gas pedal, it hardly moved until the boost built up. It was maybe like a solid 2-3 seconds before it really started going. Made it no fun to drive. Your thoughts? Is this normal? Are there any easy/simple mods that prevent this from happening? I'm sure if I powerbraked it I would have launched better, but who wants to do that all the time (I don't want to kill my tranny)? Yup, that's definitely the norm for a 5EAT, it's a snail off the line without a launch. You're partially dealing with the turbo lag of the motor, but primarily the laggy valve body in the stock trans. A year later it still bothers the hell out of me. Even once you go stage 2, the lag from a dead stop really won't improve. Your best bet cutting down the lag from a stop would be to have IPT do the valve body upgrade to the tune ~$1100. I know, not a fun scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmoe Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Nothing people haven't already posted but being a 5EAT owner myself I thought I'd chime in anyway. I'd say half the problem is the trans. and half is the way you are driving it due to e-throttle and the nature of an auto. Just slamming the pedal will get you nothing but disappointment. You gotta roll onto it and then floor it when boost hits. Going Stg. 1 or 2 will make a nice difference, but I don't think will ever match what your expecting. It's just a different kind of quickness. The auto LGT will never really take off like a bat outta hell off the line, but will make up for a lot of that loss once you hit boost with quick shifts at higher speeds. But if off the line speed is your number one concern...get the manual trans., no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS5689 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I'm used to GM FWD V6s where I can pretty much take off like a rocket from the line (auto trans- but not much power in the top-end). I can't imagine there would be a way to launch better with the 5EAT that would help significantly, though. I understand this is a 4cyl turbo...but my complaint is the tranny. I love driving the 5MT LGT...it feels like there's hardly any lag at all, and you can actually use the low-end torque of the turbo in 1st gear with the 5MT. Driving the 5EAT today felt smooth and simple, and I liked the sport mode w/ the buttons on the steering wheel, but it felt about as fast as my current car...and i'm looking to have a car that's faster than what I currently have. My only deal is this: I have never owned a MT car before. All my cars have been automatics, so I haven't really experienced rush-hour traffic in the city with a MT before. I would imagine I would get used to it though. Drive a car without much turbo lag then. I hate how long this thing takes to built power. I miss having max torque at 1,800 RPMs. As for driving stick in traffic, you'll get used to it. You may wanna cut your left leg off at times, but it's well worth it.... I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shopper Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 i bought a 5eat because i couldnt find a 5mt that had low miles in my price range and i regret it every day save up and buy the 5mt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 i bought a 5eat because i couldnt find a 5mt that had low miles in my price range and i regret it every day save up and buy the 5mt This is EXACTLY my dilemma. Thanks for the input, fellas! My GAGT is rated at 175hp/205ft-lbs...with my mods i'm probably pushing 220. But the weak point is the tranny. I can take off like a bat outta hell (used to- I have two dying motor mounts now), but you're right- that's about it. With that said, I understand i'm going to a totally different type of engine. But it sounds like I won't be happy with the 5eat because with the 5mt I still have the option of launching well. (My GAGT is a 4-speed auto. Gearing is actually decent for 1 and 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsnoops Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 i dunno i have a 5eat but it doesn't take off the line real quick regularly, but on the manual mode it does make a big difference from my experience. but like said above let it roll off the line a bit then mash the pedal especially with manual mode and it does take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanjk3 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 . But the weak point is the tranny. I can take off like a bat outta hell (used to- I have two dying motor mounts now), but you're right- that's about it. You got that right, mine went just after the warranty expired. Only power mods I had was a custom axle-back exhaust and a K&N panel filter. I'm assuming you have better tires that the OEM GY RSAs, those would spin and set off the TC with even a moderate launch. It bothered me the first couple/few months after I traded in the GA, not having the same low end torque. But eventually you adapt to it. Even my non-turbo Impreza has better top end than my GA, active valve lift (similar to VTEC) helps a lot. Friends don't let friends drink cheap beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 You got that right, mine went just after the warranty expired. Only power mods I had was a custom axle-back exhaust and a K&N panel filter. I'm assuming you have better tires that the OEM GY RSAs, those would spin and set off the TC with even a moderate launch. It bothered me the first couple/few months after I traded in the GA, not having the same low end torque. But eventually you adapt to it. Even my non-turbo Impreza has better top end than my GA, active valve lift (similar to VTEC) helps a lot. Well I bought mine used about 4 years ago, so it had Hankook tires on it. If you mod the engine well enough it really gives it more top-end power. I have P&P intake manifolds, (had) a 62mm throttle body, reprogrammed PCM, intake, and cat-back exhaust. Unfortunately without VVT (or the like), I did lose some low-end torque, but it still moved fairly well. I actually raced and beat a 5eat LGT a couple years ago, but it was close (and I had fewer mods back then too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Just my 2 cents.. (5EAT here). Stage 2 TDC. After driving a 3.3 Grand Caravan for 10 days (vacation, needed the space), WOW, was it fun to come back. The throttle response seems much better than I remembered before. And about 2 weeks before we left, I got the Konis + Cobb sways put in. FINALLY, cornering is fun again. Of course, it does NOT compare with, for example, my supercharged VR6 (nor does the cornering quite - the Corrado had PSS9s) with a 4.23 final drive (something like that). That thing was insane around town. But, it's been quite reliable for 60K, unlike my VR6 Corrado. Seriously - if I'd been married when I had the Corrado, my wife would have thought I was gay and having an affair with my mechanic.. Anyway - if you drive in traffic (I run into a bunch of stop-and-go pretty much every day to work), it's quite liveable. And once you learn to predict ahead a little and build boost BEFORE you need it.. it's not bad at all. I just wish it had more top end (may need a vf52 swap someday). In any case - lots of fun for a family car. Next car may be a Genesis coupe/sedan or G37 or something in 3-4 years, when we've paid off our other car (3.8 Grand Caravan). Or if I want to go all out, an STI/Evo or maybe 335. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 ...and I have to say I was very disappointed. I don't know if this is the case with all the 5EAT LGTs or not, but when I was stopped at a light and I "mashed" the gas pedal, it hardly moved until the boost built up. It was maybe like a solid 2-3 seconds before it really started going. Made it no fun to drive. Mashing the pedal on a 5-speed automatic Legacy GT is the BEST way to make it slow Read this http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2538878&postcount=18 and this http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2539626&postcount=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Driving the 5EAT today felt smooth and simple, and I liked the sport mode w/ the buttons on the steering wheel, but it felt about as fast as my current car...and i'm looking to have a car that's faster than what I currently have. Then don't go for an automatic, 2.5 4-cylinder all-wheel-drive car because it will never "feel" as fast as a NA bigger displacement front wheel drive V6, at a stoplight, no matter what. 99 Grand Am GT? I never had a problem outrunning them. Holeshots suck on the automatic LGT, stock or modified. You are inclined to stay with auto so I think you're looking at least a Stage 1 or most likely Stage 2 set-up. Get to know the car, get to know the tranny and you will come to realize it IS faster by a good margin. I migrated from a V6 3rd gen Altima. That car would murder a lot of cars in it's class from a stop with some good tires. It took me about a week or two to get used to the completely different driving experience that the 5EAT LGT is. Later edit: I'll add this. I've been told at Stage 2, on comparable set-ups MT and AT will run about the same. The AT runs hard on the street modded, good 1-2 gear ratio. Also, keep in mind that with the auto ... WOT shifts at full boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Mashing the pedal on a 5-speed automatic Legacy GT is the BEST way to make it slow Read this http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2538878&postcount=18 and this http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2539626&postcount=20 Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Then don't go for an automatic, 2.5 4-cylinder all-wheel-drive car because it will never "feel" as fast as a NA bigger displacement front wheel drive V6, at a stoplight, no matter what. 99 Grand Am GT? I never had a problem outrunning them. Holeshots suck on the automatic LGT, stock or modified. You are inclined to stay with auto so I think you're looking at least a Stage 1 or most likely Stage 2 set-up. Get to know the car, get to know the tranny and you will come to realize it IS faster by a good margin. I migrated from a V6 3rd gen Altima. That car would murder a lot of cars in it's class from a stop with some good tires. It took me about a week or two to get used to the completely different driving experience that the 5EAT LGT is. Later edit: I'll add this. I've been told at Stage 2, on comparable set-ups MT and AT will run about the same. The AT runs hard on the street modded, good 1-2 gear ratio. Also, keep in mind that with the auto ... WOT shifts at full boost Well, I have always thought of my car as being a factory freak, so that may have something to do with it. I ran a 15.39 1/4 mile stock when I first bought my car (at sea level, no spare). Granted i'm now at 4200ft and not close to stock, but since the 5eat is supposed to run around 15.2 stock (correct me if i'm wrong), that sounds about right. It was a close race but I did beat him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Stock 5EAT should do better than a 15.2. Not sure what elevation is Alaska but AKLGT pulled off a 14.8 @ 89. I am by no means arguing the 5EAT is better than the MT. Anyone who would, clearly has no idea what they are talking about. I was just saying that the 5EAT is a pretty good unit in and by itself and it does have it's own advantages. The AWD drivetrain is also different as a whole from the MT. The 5EAT is more flexible in low-traction conditions and the high-stall torque converter was, I'm sure, in part configured by SOA so that you can torque-brake mildly to get the car out of a rut (a procedure highlighted in the owner manual) as well as towing. You can actually upshift to 2nd at a dead-stop to prevent putting down too much torque. The converter has a stall speed of 3200-3400 rpm. And this just contributes to the problem when taking off from a light Couple years ago I was contemplating actually spraying for low-end torque, which needless to say is a bad bad idea and would not do much. Stock form, MT is definitely faster as there is no slushbox to swallow up the torque. Like I said, with no launch, come Stage 2 with a similar set-up they run about the same on the street from what I have been told. IF you are like me and prefer an auto for daily driving, I think you're looking at a basic Stage 2 to be happy with the auto, which is neither expensive nor complicated. Basically get rid of at least 2 cat converters and get a reflash. To put things in perspective, anywhere between 2800 and 3400 rpms I am pushing 18+ PSI. The stock map is set-up for 13 PSI ... That's what I'm tuned for at redline. Stage 2 vs stock is night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithk831 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Stock 5EAT should do better than a 15.2. Not sure what elevation is Alaska but AKLGT pulled off a 14.8 @ 89. Hmm...not too shabby. I always thought/read that the 5eat was a second slower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 A second or so slower to 60. According to my Accessport which can clock 0-60 runs, I was able to pull off a 5.5 to 60 with absolutely no launch with the set-up I am right now. One thing is, the 5EAT feels kinda clumsy for me in traffic, in the sense that it's so very very eager to row through them gears to get you in 5th for fuel economy, when you need to make a quick move, it's horrendous to squeeze the pedal at 30 in 4th. Not a big deal since you can manually downshift the gear even when in D, and after you leave it alone for a few seconds, it goes back bu itself to auto mode So to sum it up, awd + turbo lag + torque converter = feels slow and torqueless out of boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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