BernardP Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Yesterday, I sat in a black 2.5i. As I opened the door, I noticed, as on other Subaru models, the frameless glass. I wonder why Subaru continues with that design element. I can understand frameless glass in a coupe, but in a four door? I see downsides to frameless glass: the car is easier to break into, there is added risk of wind noise and it is easier for the driver/passenger to spear himself on the corner of the glass when entering the car... On the other hand, I think I have seen somewhere that Subaru claims safety benefits for the frameless sideglass. Maybe someone could explain these benefits, as they are not obvious to me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 It's also a weight savings additional to structural where they can make the single member above and around the windows more secure and sound. BMW and others have really done well with the same deal, except the window automatically goes up and down just a hair and locks the window under a lip IIRC so the wind/breakin things are negligible. Probably a cost thing for Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Also, framless windows give a bit better visibility. IIRC, my WRX window edges were rounded so you couldn't stab yourself on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AreEyeSeeKay Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Assuming you want to minimize the size of the pillars for visablity, and maximize the stiffness of the chassis for crashworthiness, then the framelss design is the way to go. Given the same size pillars, a framed window design will have less structure in the body. The RX-8 design is interesting in that the B Pillar is part of the rear Doorlet, and it actually interolocks with the body when you close it. Regarding Security, it seems to me that if they want to get into your car, they can, frame or not. It still freaks me out though, evertime I open my Forester's Doors with the windows down, and theres nothing to grab on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 No wind noise at any speed from the windows in my WRX but I do have the infamous squeak when going up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardP Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Nice info, guys. Thanks As for the visibility, I can certainly vouch for it. When I sat in that 2.5i, I was really impressed by the visibility. Pillars are thin and the beltline is low, for a commanding view of the road. I have the impression that contrary to Honda and Toyota, who have steadily been raising the beltline over the last model changes, Subaru is not going with the "kid-sitting-in-the-bathub" feel. Of course, one can always raise the seat, but if the roof is low, there is a limit to that, especially with a sunroof. Extreme cases of high beltline and relatively low roof are the new Chrysler 300, Infiniti G35 Coupe or Hyundai Tiburon. In these cars, I can't get rid of a claustrophobic feeling and I have the impression that I can't see enough around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 It helps the windows to freeze to the weatherstripping in the winter ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']It helps the windows to freeze to the weatherstripping in the winter ;)[/quote] I'll have more reason not to leave my car. w00t -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']It helps the windows to freeze to the weatherstripping in the winter ;)[/quote] Truthfully I have never had this happen. Although it would seem more likey than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Happened to me once- applied some dressing and it never happened again. Now the gas tank freezing shut is another issue altogether... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crapy Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 actually the glasses on Legacy has less noise than A4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraziken Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 A sales man told me originally, that is' for kid safety. He then proceeded to demonstrate by putting his hand between the window and door and slammed the door shut. It seems reasonable that this is the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Woulda been funny if there was a sharp edge on the glass and it cut his fingers off. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panos Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 It's sexy. I've gotten used to it. Now everytime I go to get in another car I get a door corner to the arm pit....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 [quote name='jedimaster']Happened to me once- applied some dressing and it never happened again. Now the gas tank freezing shut is another issue altogether...[/quote] We don't have winters where I live, so meh. :lol: I agree panos, they are sexy. They remind me of Lexus and BMW windows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 The down side is when you get used to frameless windows, you can almost knock your head off when driving a normal car. Once, with the windows down in a rental, I pulled in to a parking spot and hopped out of the car. I was standing too close to the door, as you can do with your Subaru with the windows down. But with an Olds Alero...not quite. :lol: Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaairsoft Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 [quote name='BernardP']Nice info, guys. Thanks As for the visibility, I can certainly vouch for it. When I sat in that 2.5i, I was really impressed by the visibility. Pillars are thin and the beltline is low, for a commanding view of the road. I have the impression that contrary to Honda and Toyota, who have steadily been raising the beltline over the last model changes, Subaru is not going with the "kid-sitting-in-the-bathub" feel. Of course, one can always raise the seat, but if the roof is low, there is a limit to that, especially with a sunroof. Extreme cases of high beltline and relatively low roof are the new Chrysler 300, Infiniti G35 Coupe or Hyundai Tiburon. In these cars, I can't get rid of a claustrophobic feeling and I have the impression that I can't see enough around me.[/quote] One word for the reason of rising beltline on a lot of cars is SUV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']The down side is when you get used to frameless windows, you can almost knock your head off when driving a normal car.[/quote] I've actually hit my head on other framed side windows too! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardP Posted May 27, 2004 Author Share Posted May 27, 2004 ***One word for the reason of rising beltline on a lot of cars is SUV*** A couple of years ago, I saw such a reason mentionned in a Car and Driver article. It seems car manufacturers have conducted psychological studies that reveal that people, especially women, feel safer when they feel a solid wall, instead of a glass, separating them from the outside of the car. That is why beltlines have been rising: the solid wall protection goes higher in relation to the driver's line of vision. And while we are on the subject of psychological studies, am I the only one who is tired of the ubiquitous "smiling grille" front end motif :) on so many cars, especially most japanese cars? I would not be surprised if this was also the result of psychological studies: A smiling car looks friendlier. That is one reason that draws me to Subaru. The standard Subaru front end is a frown :x not a smile, and thus looks more agressive. The new Legacy grille is neutral :| neither a smile nor a frown, and is different from the grinning Acuras, Mazda, Toyotas and Hondas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 At least the leg looks a little meaner than our friendly bug-eyes. ;) I have been drawn to the windowless style as it just works for me, but most people I know are like what the heck, I can't lean on them. :lol: Too bad, don't lean on my car then. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobert486 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 if you want a car that smiles, get a neon...."HI"!!! hahaa.. i wonder what my volvo s80 would look like, it doesnt smile nor agressive, it kinda looks like it has a front buck tooth. I agree w/ the higher beltline concept. it does provide a secure wrap around feel, which i kind of like. about the frameless windows, i was reading a benz brochure a few years back when they talked about a frameless AND B pillarless window for their new CL class(the 100k+ coupe)...the lack of a frame creates a smoother flow(less resistance) and therefore a more quiet cabin. so i read the gapping of the frame causes obstruction. also, i noticed if one were to stand outside(side view) of the leg vs a framed window car, the relationship between the front and rear windows SHOULD flow better as if it were one giant piece of glass, instead of 2 seperate pieces on a framed window car. anyone get my "vision" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']At least the leg looks a little meaner than our friendly bug-eyes. ;)[/quote] I actually find the buggyes to me more aggressive than the new "crosseyed" Impreza front end. Bugeyes represent! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey'][quote name='SUBE555']At least the leg looks a little meaner than our friendly bug-eyes. ;)[/quote] I actually find the buggyes to me more aggressive than the new "crosseyed" Impreza front end. Bugeyes represent! :D[/quote] Only bugeyes with JDMs or EDMs. Otherwise I think the new ones are more aggressive, personally. :D Yeah it will take me some getting used to the frameless windows.. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 JDM projector & Prodrive lamps= aggressive USDM lamps= lame IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 "USDM lamps" are Standard on JDM RA Spec Cs. They are obviously superior to the projectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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