Audio Mods for Subaru Outback 2005

[phildog33]

Hey guys,

 

Finally after months on the classified sections and autotrader.. I finally got a 2005 Outback XT. Really happy with it, all black, beautiful etc.

 

I am an acoustic consultant, in the architectural and studio/theater design world and I am a real sound lover in my car, home, my own studio, etc. And understand the ins and outs of tuning, good gear, etc.

 

Can you guys help me purchase some great gear for this car, and fit me out right. Through browsing the forums it looks like:

 

 

** Keep Stock HU, because you cant replace

** Speakers -- Polk DB650 and DB6500 or Boston Acoustics SL60 (BETTER)

** Subwoofer -- JL Audio Stealth Box

** Amps --- ???

** Cabling -- ???

** Location for above -- in rear under tray

** ETC -- Dynamat for internal acoustics

** DSP -- RF 3Sxity,2 or Alpine PHX system until the JBL MS-8 comes out

** ALSO -- something in the cubby hole??

** IPOD HOOKUP

** Tune and calibrate acoustics

 

Any hardware mods to the car which are not overkill, but well worth it?

 

Thanks for any advice you can offer, Id like to start ordering equipment

And if anyone knows someone in the NYC area that can do the install.. would be great

 

Thanks

 

Phillip

[ean611]

If you don't have NAV, you can put a radio in the cubby space above the stock radio. I used to do that when I didn't have NAV in my old 2.5i, and had an Eclipse 8053 there. My current car can't do that.

 

If you do have NAV, the 3Sixty.2 will work, but not as well as an aftermarket radio.

 

Amps, JL Audio 500/5. If you really want more power, go with something even more expensive, such as McIntosh or the like.

 

For speakers, both options you mention are inexpensive options, and there are better out there if you're willing to spend the money. I use Image Dynamics XS-65's up front, they're pretty good. If you're looking at Boston Acoustics, Pro60's aren't bad, I use them for my rears. Focal is supposed to be pretty good (in their high end) and CDT is also good for speakers. MB Quart used to be the gold standard back when I was more into current equipment, and many today still think they are.

 

Subs, JL Stealthbox is the easiest way for a wagon, can't dispute that.

 

Cableing is cableing, just make sure it's thick enough, if you use the JL 500/5, you need 4GA.

 

Dynamat is a waste of money. Edead, Raammat BXT, Damlifier, and second skin are all examples of products you can get that do the same job, but are significantly cheaper than dynamat. see http://www.raamaudio.com/for good instructions on how to sound deaden and they sell good materials much cheaper than Dynamat.

 

Good luck, and post some pics when you're done!

[MOMSWGN]

I am an audiophile. I would not waste money on a system for a car.

[phildog33]

Im used to using the highest quality tube amps, and great gear in my projects and home theater.

 

I ahvent gotten involved deeply in car audio before.

 

MOMSWGN, if you are telling me that all the gear from low to high is kind of so-so. Then recommend something good but not 'just to spend' since the quality difference, you think is not so apparent on the higher end car audio

 

 

P

[RustyShackleford]

I am an audiophile. I would not waste money on a system for a car.

 

I am an audiophile too, but this is dumb. You can make a car sound

system sound a lot better than what typically comes from the factory,

and it's worth it unless you intend just to drive in silence.

[ean611]

I agree rustyShackleford

 

I stand by JL Audio amps, the speakers I mentioned, (There are other good ones, just don't get the cheap ones you mentioned)

 

And if you spend the time with 1/3 octave EQs and sound deadening, your results will be very good. Not home audiophile good, but you will be very happy

 

EDIT: I am an audiophile. I'm also an engineer. If it's digital anything, Monster doesn't matter. Analog, you run into the law of diminishing returns above a certain point with cables.

[MOMSWGN]

The ambient noise in a car is about 50-60 dB. Even with a butt load of dynamat I cannot not even come close to the acoustics in my dedicated listening room.

 

I enjoy the car's OEM system and sub for what it is. I spend minutes in the car and hours in the listening room. My opinion maybe "dumb", but it is my opinion.

[ean611]

MOMSWGN. Your opinion is not dumb whatsoever. You're absolutely right.

 

I still enjoy high fidelity with the background noise, because I can hear small detail over the noise. I prefer it to silence, and if I use 90dB as my ceiling, I still can have something like 35-40dB of range to listen to.

 

Bottom line, you can get good results in a car, but it is still a car, not a dedicated listening room.

 

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I view it as taking my "listening room" on the road, with all the background noise that comes with that. I live in an apt, so I get interruptions from street noise occasionally anyway, so I guess it bothers me less. I'll have a house with total silence eventually, just not yet.

[LuckyBob]

I am an audiophile. I would not waste money on a system for a car.

 

Based on that response, I'd say you're also a stereotypical "audiophile" snob. For people that have to spend hours a day in their car, is it not valid to spend some money on their system in search of better sound? I know yours is only an opinion, but why try to shut the topic down by phrasing it that way? "Audiophile" isn't a job - it's a subjective thing, and those of us that consider ourselves a meber of that group already get a bad name because of our perception as snobs. Why perpetuate it?

 

</petpeeve>

[MOMSWGN]

Not a snob, never have been. Just don't believe in spending big money on an inherently flawed "room" that is the cockpit of car. I'd rather put money into the suspension, brakes, engin, etc. to make the car a better car.

For those of us that have built listening rooms, you can only do so much if the room itself is structured poorly. That is my point.

[LuckyBob]

Not a snob, never have been. Just don't believe in spending big money on an inherently flawed "room" that is the cockpit of car. I'd rather put money into the suspension, brakes, engin, etc. to make the car a better car.

For those of us that have built listening rooms, you can only do so much if the room itself is structured poorly. That is my point.

 

I know yours is only an opinion, but why try to shut the topic down by phrasing it that way?

 

I can understand and (semi) respect your opinion, but the OP was asking for help improving is sound system, not for people to tell him not to. Just be aware (as you should be based on the responses to your initial contribution thus far) that comments like that come across as quite snobbish, and that does nothing to help the "audiophile community," as it were.

 

 

 

To the OP: sounds like a great plan. Have you considered the DIY fiberglass side-of-the-trunk enclosure? I think that's the route I'm going to take when I get around to redoing my stereo. Also, the stock headunit can be replaced by (as mentioned earlier) installing a secondary unit somewhere else or (if you're fairly electronically inclined) hacking up the stock stereo. There's also vendors out there who will separate the climate control and stereo for a fairly hefty price if cleanliness is really important.

[ean611]

Luckybob. I went the fiberglass route.

 

In hindsight, WickedCAS looks like a very good idea

[phildog33]

Thank you guys for your posts. Can we get your recommendations, and get a list going for me to buy parts:

 

** Keep Stock HU, because you cant replace (After market in Cubby Hole instead?)

** Speakers -- Polk DB650 and DB6500 or Boston Acoustics SL60 (BETTER) or MB Quartz

** Subwoofer -- JL Audio Stealth Box

** Amps --- Jl Audio Amps, which ones?

** Cabling -- ???

** Location for above -- in rear under tray

** ETC -- Dynamat for internal acoustics or similar

** DSP -- RF 3Sxity,2 or Alpine PHX system until the JBL MS-8 comes out. Which is the best here for tuning the car. I have a SMAART Acoustic FFT system, with calibrators and mics, so I dont need an Auto EQ, unless they are just great now

** ALSO -- something in the cubby hole??

** IPOD HOOKUP

** Tune and calibrate acoustics

[ean611]

phildog, JL audio 500/5 is awesome. 100x2 for front, 25x2 for rears, 250x1 for sub. It's one amp that does everything.

 

of the speakers you list, MB Quartz mid range stuff is far better than BA SL60's or Polk anything. Again, Look at CDT, Image Dynamics, Diamond Audio, and Focal. Speakers are the most important part of your system, so expect to spend a minimum of 350 a pair if you want something good.

 

Sound deadening is the second most important part, and Dynamat is good but very overpriced, see above posts about cheaper alternatives.

 

I just set up my 3Sixty.2, and the results are actually pretty good so far, it's not tuned right, that'll take time, but I'm liking what I hear so far.

[phildog33]

Is there any way we can help me create that list so I can buy parts. I know every persons list would be subjective, and their own personal design, but Id like to find good brands to go after and others to avoid

 

** Keep Stock HU, because you cant replace (After market in Cubby Hole instead?)

** Speakers -- MB Quartz, CDT, IMage Dynamics, Diamond Audio, Focal?

** Subwoofer -- JL Audio Stealth Box

** Amps --- JL Audio 500/5

** Cabling -- ???

** Location for above -- in rear under tray

** ETC -- Dynamat for internal acoustics or similar cheaper?

** DSP -- RF 3Sxity,2 or Alpine PHX system ???

** ALSO -- something in the cubby hole??

** IPOD HOOKUP

** Tune and calibrate acoustics

[peteyjr]

I've had quite a few systems including Subies. My current set up is Focal separates up front (quickly becoming my fav speakers of all time save for some old school Diamond audio's) MB quarts in the rear. JL audio amps , JL wagon stealthbox with the 10w6 (highly recommended) , Old school PPI 1/3 octave EQ with ribbon cable for front seat tweaking. XM tuner in the cubby hole. Sounds like you are on the right track.

[LuckyBob]

Regarding the list of speakers you've got from reading online quite a bit and some audition experience:

 

- MB Quart is said to have a very "laid back" sound.

- Focal is said to have a very "up front" sound. I've heard many describe their line as harsh.

- I've heard very good things about CDT overall.

 

Note these are just personal opinions and take 'em for what they're worth. Check out http://www.woofersetc.com for pretty complete product lines.

[peteyjr]

Speakers are a very Subjective thing. What may sound good to ones ears sound horrible to another. I personally do not like a "hot" sound coming from tweets (metal dome in my case) . The focal speakers I have are hand picked Euro versions matched with Dynaudio tweets built by an expert speaker guy that lives near me. They have suberb imaging and tonal balance right out the box. Nothing harsh about them. The MB quarts I have are the RSB 160 over 10 years old . They were one of the first to use advanced crossovers with multiple tweeter attenuation. Tom Nussiene from Car Audio and electronics Magazine fame liked them enough to have them in his ride. I have a set of CDT upstage units (currently not installed) I can only talk good about them.

 

You can read online until blue in the face. More important is that they sound good to you and are properly setup . Any speaker worth their weight can potentially sound good with proper placement , Crossover setup and Equailization (done right)

 

My mentor (an ex world champion autosound guy) could listen to a system and immediately know what crossover point to change and what EQ tweak was needed. No RTA, no complex laptop setup. Just unbelievable ears. He once had a system with lower model JL speakers (cx line I think it was) . . He had just won a regional Iasca sound quality and was asked by JL big wigs (then a local start up company) to change his speakers to the higher Qline and they would sponsor the change. He said F-no I like the sound as it is.

[Siper2]

Not a snob, never have been. Just don't believe in spending big money on an inherently flawed "room" that is the cockpit of car. I'd rather put money into the suspension, brakes, engin, etc. to make the car a better car.

For those of us that have built listening rooms, you can only do so much if the room itself is structured poorly. That is my point.

 

I don't think this thread needs to focus on your original reply, but I'll throw in a quick two cents.

 

I agree that a car is a flawed acoustic surrounding. Everyone knows that. But my line of thinking is that, most homes or apartments aren't ideal either. So it's all in how you look at it. If I were going to be a total purist, I wouldn't bother even setting up my speakers, in my new house. The room with the TV in it is ridiculous; poorly designed, with no ideal layout for speakers. There's sonic inaccuracies all over the place.

 

But, I'm still going to do my best. The same goes for a car. If you CHOOSE not to bother, well that's one thing. But, I'd discourage those who would read your original post, from taking it too much to heart. Because great results can be had, from car audio systems.

 

One could even go far enough as to say that if you don't want to bother with audio, why bother with performance? Subarus have inherent weaknesses and boundaries, so why not just sell it and buy a Porsche.... (Or whatever car you like! ) But now we're getting a little nutty.

 

 

 

 

To the OP, I like your choice of Boston speakers, but I'm a bona-fide BA nut. I have PC and home speakers from them, and had a great pair of RC61, classic Rally Series components in my old 2.5RS. I miss them dearly, and they've only been out of my life for a couple months.

 

I'll probably put some coaxials in my GT, since I don't have the time in my life for a fancy system, again I don't think. Plus the whole head unit issue, with the GT. So it'll be a Jazzy AUX pro kit for me, most likely, and some coaxes. My GT came with the factory sub, which I don't like very much so I'll probably take it out at some point.

[Boulderguy]

It's a car, it's sonically limited to begin with. Keep that in mind & go for the biggest bang for your buck (and effort). Here's what I think will get you there -

 

The key will be your front speakers, easily. Spend some money them & set them up well. 6.5's work, the big challenge is mounting depth b/c of the window. 2.5" depth is workable pretty easily with spacers.

 

I'm using hi-end Focals & couldn't be happier with them. At almost 3" depth they're a challenge to squeeze in there. There are some hi-end speakers out there with neo magnets that make them much easier to work with in tight spaces, these are worth investigating (DLS?). Try the DLS coax's, the UX26. Rear speakers don't matter so much, find a deal on something good.

 

Regardless, there's no substitute for listening tests with speakers & will make the biggest impact on the system's final results.

 

Amps - quickly becoming a fan of the Alpine PDX series. They have so many benefits that I'd only not recommend them if they didn't hold water in an A/B test against your other favorites. It's well worth doing some homework here. I think the PDX 4.100 would be perfect, the 1.600 would match the stealthbox well.

 

Processor - the JL Cleansweep seems to have had a lot of success in these cars & plenty of happy owners. The RF version is a tweaker's dream. Otherwise apples to apples I think.

 

I bypassed the processor altogether for an ipod -> volume control -> Xover -> amps setup & am very happy with it, but I never bother with CD's anymore so that works for me.

 

Sub - can't beat the stealthbox for a plug & play solution with minimal hassle. I built my own but wouldn't do it again.

 

Cables - Knuconceptz (sp?) has great quality at unbeatable prices. Copper is copper.

 

Dampening is absolutely worth it on the front doors. Beyond that is diminishing returns, depends on how far you want to take this. Much better deals than Dynamat IMO. Try SecondSkin or raammat.

 

Location - absolutely in the rear tray unless using the PDX amps, I'd put those under the front seats & save the tray for other junk.

 

Ipod - Hell yes, personal preference. I'm an audiophile too but will take the tremendous convenience of the entire music collection at my fingertips over a bit of sonic accuracy using redbook CD's anyday. It's a car, not a concert hall.

 

If you place it in the armrest be sure to spec a long cable so you can hold it up while searching, it will keep you more aware of traffic. Mine's built into the cupholder & frankly it's dangerous to search while driving.

 

Good luck.

[ean611]

boulderguy, in regards to the iPod, at 320kbps MP3 or >256kbps AAC, even my audiophile ears do ok with that.

 

The convenience is unbeatable. I'll burn a CD for the few things that it really makes a difference for, but most new music isn't good enough to matter. (that's another debate entirely though)

[Boulderguy]

Exactly. Virgin vinyl is a thing of beauty but has no place in my car.

[peteyjr]

I think he meant if you have Nav , you won't be able to place an aftermarket radio in the cubby hole. A processor , such as the RF 3sixty.2, JL cleansweep etc. will never match the purity of signal of line level outputs (RCA'sin this case as opposed of trying to convert dirty speaker level outputs).

[ean611]

peteyjr, you nailed exactly what I meant.

 

That being said, the more I play with the 3Sixty.2, the more impressed with the results I get.

 

While it would have been easier to set up with my aftermarket head, the 3Sixty.2's results are superb so far

[peteyjr]

Good to know The 3sixty.2 is up to your standards (which I know are pretty high). I may eventually go that route.