Wilwood Front Brake Kit

[mwiener2]

BTW: A Mini may look small, but the S weighs roughly 2800.

 

 

yes, which is 600lbs less than a legacy and over 800lbs less than an outback

 

 

Traskw - get vendor status or DIAF

 

 

and, you've been pwned

[traskw]

yes, which is 600lbs less than a legacy and over 800lbs less than an outback

 

 

Traskw - get vendor status or DIAF

 

 

and, you've been pwned

 

I prefer facts to generalities and exaggerations. Sorry if that means I come off as a prick, but it seems like many people throw out information without backing it with tangible facts.

For instance…

The Outback Wagon Manual has a curb weight of 3375

The LGT manual is 3305

 

Regardless, these brakes were not design for the Mini, that's misinformation. They were design to fit under a 15" rally tire with 12" rotors or a 16" with 12.2"

 

I'm not selling anything, just weighing the interest, if there is enough interest, I will get vendor status. I've contacted the group before about vendor status with no response.

[traskw]

The Outback Wagon Manual (as shown) has a curb weight of 3375

The LGT (as shown) manual is 3305

[traskw]

The curb weight of the 3 cylinder diesel 4x4 cub is 1600lbs.

[mwiener2]

My Outback weighs 3660lbs with a 1/4 tank of gas

[traskw]

My Outback weighs 3660lbs with a 1/4 tank of gas

 

I'm going off of Subaru's specs, the heaviest Outback is listed at a 3500 lb curb weight. The one shown 3375 lbs. Everything weighs more with gas and junk in the trunk. It's irrelevant; Subaru used even smaller 10.6” rotors on the heavier Baja Turbo. These brakes have better stopping power, less fade, and have yet to exhibit the issues we commonly see with the stock set-up and I’ll put that up against anyone willing to have a go. I wouldn’t sell something I didn’t use and believe in.

 

I mentioned the rust as an example, not of performance, but as visible proof of the differences in metallurgy of the stock and wildwood rotors. These rotors don’t rust or pit easily like the stock ones do. If the suggestion is that all rotors of the same size are basically the same, I’d recommend driving a GM product with the same sized brakes for 20,000 miles. My point is not all rotors and calipers are created equally.

[Guest LGT-NY]

Bedy nice!

[bitz]

Hey Traskw I got a question I was hoping you could help me out with. I see earlier in the thread you mentioned:

 

"The stock caliper applies pressure from only one side and the pads themselves can stick with in the caliper. We've seen this (Did I mention we see thousands of Subaru's a year) fairly often."

I think this is happening to my 2.5i and it is really annoying. At all speeds there is this grinding/vibration you can feel if you press your foot up under the brake pedal. It feels as though the calipers are sticking with the pad touching the rotor but the car doesn't pull in one direction or the other. Now this happens like 85% of the time and there is no rhyme or reason to it, but it gets worse the longer the drive is. What is the solution to pads getting stuck with the caliper as you mentioned earlier in that other post? I've brought it in to the dealer a bunch of times (7-8) and they can't figure it out. I have had both front wheel bearings and axle boot replaced, new tires, turned rotors, hps front pads.

 

Sorry about hijacking your thread but I thought you might be able to lend some guidance.

 

Thanks,

Adam

 

P.S. Thats a nice package you put together, wish you the best in selling them.

[erikvcl]

Hey Traskw I got a question I was hoping you could help me out with. I see earlier in the thread you mentioned:

 

"The stock caliper applies pressure from only one side and the pads themselves can stick with in the caliper. We've seen this (Did I mention we see thousands of Subaru's a year) fairly often."

I think this is happening to my 2.5i and it is really annoying. At all speeds there is this grinding/vibration you can feel if you press your foot up under the brake pedal.

 

First of all, the statement "... the caliper applies pressure from only one side..." is a fallacy. Pressure is applied to both sides evenly in both sliding and fixed caliper systems. Fixed-caliper systems are often preferred for track use since there's no sliding part to seize. There's no difference in raw braking ability between the two systems. There may be a difference in brake feel between the two systems, however.

 

But then again, xenonk spends lots of time at the track with the stock calipers and hasn't reported seizing, so it seems that the stock calipers work well.

 

I can see that you're new, so I'll cover this topic again -- it has been covered to exhaustion. The stock pads in the Legacy are made of an inferior material that leaves deposits on the rotors. These deposits cause vibration that feels like a warped rotor. A few hard brake attempts can clear the rotors of these deposits. A good aftermarket pad such as Hawks HPS takes care of this problem from what I've read.

[traskw]

Hey Traskw I got a question I was hoping you could help me out with. I see earlier in the thread you mentioned:

 

"The stock caliper applies pressure from only one side and the pads themselves can stick with in the caliper. We've seen this (Did I mention we see thousands of Subaru's a year) fairly often."

 

I think this is happening to my 2.5i and it is really annoying. At all speeds there is this grinding/vibration you can feel if you press your foot up under the brake pedal. It feels as though the calipers are sticking with the pad touching the rotor but the car doesn't pull in one direction or the other. Now this happens like 85% of the time and there is no rhyme or reason to it, but it gets worse the longer the drive is. What is the solution to pads getting stuck with the caliper as you mentioned earlier in that other post? I've brought it in to the dealer a bunch of times (7-8) and they can't figure it out. I have had both front wheel bearings and axle boot replaced, new tires, turned rotors, hps front pads.

 

Sorry about hijacking your thread but I thought you might be able to lend some guidance.

 

Thanks,

Adam

 

P.S. Thats a nice package you put together, wish you the best in selling them.

 

I was about to say, before I get corrected, the brake does apply force from both sides, but it originates from the piston side 1st, which forces the caliper to close like a clamp. Too late.

 

If it's the pads sticking, you can clean and lube the pad guides. We've even seen the pads with plenty of pad life left "frozen" in the guides. Though it sounds like it's just rust build-up from the stock rotors.

[traskw]

First of all, the statement "... the caliper applies pressure from only one side..." is a fallacy. Pressure is applied to both sides evenly in both sliding and fixed caliper systems. Fixed-caliper systems are often preferred for track use since there's no sliding part to seize. There's no difference in raw braking ability between the two systems. There may be a difference in brake feel between the two systems, however.

 

But then again, xenonk spends lots of time at the track with the stock calipers and hasn't reported seizing, so it seems that the stock calipers work well.

 

I can see that you're new, so I'll cover this topic again -- it has been covered to exhaustion. The stock pads in the Legacy are made of an inferior material that leaves deposits on the rotors. These deposits cause vibration that feels like a warped rotor. A few hard brake attempts can clear the rotors of these deposits. A good aftermarket pad such as Hawks HPS takes care of this problem from what I've read.

 

One thing that doesn't make sense if it is just the rotor issue, it should get better the longer you drive and brake, he's stating that it gets worse. Though I'm not sure if he means the longer the individual drive, or how long he's been driving total, which could just be the rotors pitting and wearing unevenly. That would go away when they turned your rotors and then take some time to come back.

 

Putting the kind of miles and force on that xenonk does is very different from every day driving. We have had issues with the pads sticking, though this tends to be noticeable most when stopped or rolling slowly and applying the brake off and on. It is not the same issues as the rust on the rotors, which is a different noise.

 

Of note, Subaru is now wrapping the wheels in plastic from the factory so the cars don't do this during test drives (talking abiout the rotors here, not the pads).

[traskw]

First of all, the statement "... the caliper applies pressure from only one side..." is a fallacy. Pressure is applied to both sides evenly in both sliding and fixed caliper systems. Fixed-caliper systems are often preferred for track use since there's no sliding part to seize. There's no difference in raw braking ability between the two systems. There may be a difference in brake feel between the two systems, however.

 

But then again, xenonk spends lots of time at the track with the stock calipers and hasn't reported seizing, so it seems that the stock calipers work well.

 

I can see that you're new, so I'll cover this topic again -- it has been covered to exhaustion. The stock pads in the Legacy are made of an inferior material that leaves deposits on the rotors. These deposits cause vibration that feels like a warped rotor. A few hard brake attempts can clear the rotors of these deposits. A good aftermarket pad such as Hawks HPS takes care of this problem from what I've read.

 

I was pointing to a problem rather than normal operation. Though, on a sliding system, the piston side has to contact the rotor before the other side will close and then equalize pressure. I should have explained better, typing can be tedious.

[traskw]

The stock caliper applies pressure from only one side (initially) and the pads themselves can stick (or seize) with in the caliper(pad guides).

[jamal]

yeah guys, sliding calipers are evil and are bound to fail and seize and whatnot. It's not like you see companies like BMW using them on their performance cars.

 

oh, wait...

 

 

I really don't see the benefit of this kit, especially when there's a better caliper that uses the stock rotor. On top of that, the caliper itself does concern me. It's at the upper limit of what it's designed for, and it seems to me like that could cause problems with the caliper flexing. The stock brakes use a lot of iron. These use a lot less aluminum.

[mwiener2]

pwned........again

[traskw]

pwned........again

 

 

How many seized calipers have you delt with?

 

 

Nice Outback, but all that power and only a 13.77?

 

I know you have thin air up there, but still.

[traskw]

yeah guys, sliding calipers are evil and are bound to fail and seize and whatnot. It's not like you see companies like BMW using them on their performance cars.

 

oh, wait...

 

 

I really don't see the benefit of this kit, especially when there's a better caliper that uses the stock rotor. On top of that, the caliper itself does concern me. It's at the upper limit of what it's designed for, and it seems to me like that could cause problems with the caliper flexing. The stock brakes use a lot of iron. These use a lot less aluminum.

 

The idea was for a low maintenance kit using booted calipers. Because most performance calipers are track style non-booted, this did limit caliper options. However, we were able to use this rally intended caliper with great results.

 

I may be alone in wanting such a design, but so far I'm very pleased.

 

Caliper flexing has not been an issue. Ultimately time will tell and I'll keep posting...

[mwiener2]

Never had a seized caliper, never heard of one on a Legacy.

 

13.77 is a VERY respectable time up here. And the car could do alot better with a better driver.

 

 

Edit: Not that my drag times have anything to do with this brake kit..... or the fact that they'd melt off the car if I had them.

[bitz]

Thanks for the ideas fellas. I did replace the stock pads in the front which yielded minimal improvements. The turning of the rotors also didn't help much at all, not even right after they were turned. The grinding/vibration seems to get worse at the end of my commute each day, so its at the end of a individual trip if that clears it up. Could this be something else than the brakes altogether? It just feels like it is the brakes in the front but they can't seem to find anything wrong with them. It is a dealership though, so we know how smart they can be.

 

Thanks again for your guys input,

Adam

[erikvcl]

Thanks for the ideas fellas. I did replace the stock pads in the front which yielded minimal improvements. The turning of the rotors also didn't help much at all, not even right after they were turned. The grinding/vibration seems to get worse at the end of my commute each day, so its at the end of a individual trip if that clears it up. Could this be something else than the brakes altogether? It just feels like it is the brakes in the front but they can't seem to find anything wrong with them. It is a dealership though, so we know how smart they can be.

 

Thanks again for your guys input,

Adam

 

Grinding isn't good. Can the dealer reproduce your issue? If they can and they can't fix it, you might want to try another dealer -- or raise heck. If they can't reproduce it, then you may have to have one of the techs ride with you.

 

I've had terrible experiences with Subaru service departments; gross incompetence seems to be norm. You may have to call SOA customer service to get them to lean on the dealer if they can't get your problem fixed.

[traskw]

Never had a seized caliper, never heard of one on a Legacy.

 

13.77 is a VERY respectable time up here. And the car could do alot better with a better driver.

 

 

Edit: Not that my drag times have anything to do with this brake kit..... or the fact that they'd melt off the car if I had them.

 

My fault, I though you knew as much about driving as you do about everything else. Now I realize you're just a side-kick chiming in with the whole owned thing.

Funny, they haven't melted off mine. This is myth. Wilwood makes quality stuff. We're talking about one of the manufacturers for Nascar here. These were designed for offroad vehicles costing a lot more $$$ than the application we are using them for.

[mwiener2]

No one said Wildwood wasn't good stuff.... just this particular setup is not a good match to these vehicles

[traskw]

No one said Wildwood wasn't good stuff.... just this particular setup is not a good match to these vehicles

 

In your opinion, and your entitled to it. I'll stand by my statement that it's a better match than stock, I have this set-up ON my LGT; no speculation there. Subaru has used smaller 10.6" rotors on the heavier Baja Turbo and Standard Outback.

[traskw]

Well I drove home about as spirited as I would dare at night on the back roads over the mountain. Many 15mph turns and steep grades that require scrubbing speed down quickly.

 

The brakes had about 3/4 of a mile on the last stretch to cool before my driveway.

 

When I returned from the house with the infrared thermometer temps were still over 400 degrees at the rotors and about 200 degrees at the outside of the caliper.

 

I'll tear down a side tomorrow and have a look.

[mwiener2]

400/200 are not at all high temps and perfectly fine to just sit there