TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Look at the graphs. Looks like Spec.b makes more power and torque. I hope all this makes sense and I didn't make an ass of myself lol. 2008 LGT MT: http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/08%20LGTM/Map%20Notes/Stage1%2091%20MTv103.pdf 2008 LGT Spec.b: http://www.accessecu.com/accessport/subaru/new/08%20LGT%20SB/Map%20Notes/Stage1%2091%20SBv103.pdf Graphs don't have power or torque labeled on the Y-axis, but it still seems the Spec.b consistently makes significantly more power. All the links are here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=3268 I know it's been argued at length, but this looks like some pretty compelling evidence in favor of the spec.b folks (I will join you in a few months). As a side-note, what's that check mark thing in the rating column mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Keep telling yourself that, im sure that will justify your future purchase. I didn't bother to follow the links because there is no need to. It is the same EXACT motor any difference in power is either due to the tune being better on one car than the other or the motor being more of a "ringer". You have 2 examples which prove nothing. Your other comparison of the 07 spec b vs the 06' was better suited. FWIW the 6MT spec b will be faster anyways due to the shorter gearing as long as it isn't way heavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 You're right...the sample is limited, engines ARE the same, there are misc. variables, etc. BUT, for every graph Cobb offers such as--Stage1 w/ 91 octane; Stage1 w/ 93 octane, etc--the spec.b (2008) makes more power and torque, or so it looks from the graph. I have no idea why they would, but from those graphs, they do. (Had it been evidence in the other direction, I still would have posted it). As I mentioned in my other thread, Cobb DOES have conflicting information, but there is a lot more evidence for this side of it. There are 6 graphs that show the Spec.b making more power. And as far as I know, those are probably the most consistent and reliable dyno results there are comparing spec.b and LGT. (This thread kind of ties into the other one but has a different focus imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biz77 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Each link you provided shows a graph with AFR and a seperate graph with Manifold Pressure. The two graphs show curves for torque and horsepower (and thier shapes are identical), but have no scale for either torque or horsepower. How do you know that the Spec B is making more power when the graphs you provided have no scale for either torque or horsepower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbc84 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 vimy102... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 I know...it's really, REALLY dumb Cobb didn't show a scale for power or torque. I am under the assumption (but I could be mistaken) that Cobb would have no reason to rescale the labels for power and torque between the graphs because point 0,0 would always be equal to zero horsepower. I just noticed that the the scale for boost WAS changed between them while the scale for A/F was constant. But again, while you can have negative boost pressure, you cannot have negative horsepower or torque. But, I guess the short answer is, I don't know for sure. I'll look around on the website... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 I may delete the thread...I'm getting the feeling that the scales for power/torque MUST have been altered between the graphs. I'll call Cobb tomorrow and see if they have graphs with labels for power and torque. If I'm wrong or if they don't have the info., I'll close it. But seriously, everyone knows the spec.b has a bigger turbo and V-TEC and a Hemi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 It's ok to be wrong, as long as you realize it when someone offers an explanation or more information. I've done that a few times here. Each time I learned. No sweat. My '05 LGT My '07 Supercharged Shelby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paycer Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 vimy102... I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommypenguin Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 When I first saw this thread I thought it was the second coming of Vimy. No big deal about being wrong, I normally am on here at least once a week, you live and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 I emailed Cobb (and was amazed by the prompt response) and the guy emailed me back...obviously didn't understand my question. So I wrote him again, being more specific. I requested graphs (or written information) with stock and "post-mod" power/torque numbers for 07 and 08 LGT and Spec.b. I'm assuming he'll email me back tomorrow. Don't fall out of your seats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Maybe it was 95 degrees in the shop the day they did the LGT and 45 degrees the day they did the spec B My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 For all 6 graphs? Sounds unreasonable...and plus, 95F and 45F doesn't add up to ~30whp. But really guys, the spec.b has a hidden turbo. i think it's behind the navigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 For all 6 graphs? Sounds unreasonable...and plus, 95F and 45F doesn't add up to ~30whp. But really guys, the spec.b has a hidden turbo. i think it's behind the navigation It doesn't sound unreasonable they would be all taken the same day on the same vehicle. 95F to 45F can add up to OVER 30whp on a turbocharged car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Yeah, way over 30whp My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 It doesn't sound unreasonable they would be all taken the same day on the same vehicle. 95F to 45F can add up to OVER 30whp on a turbocharged car Remember, I'm waiting for confirmation from Cobb to see the numbers, at which point I will make a judgment. At this point, I am no longer leaning/arguing anything one way or the other. Also, if they did it on one car, why not another? I'm not saying I've looked, but find another case of that, and I'll bite off both my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous1 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Also, if they did it on one car, why not another? Just circumstance, remeber the cars that testing is done on is usually volunteered vehicles in which they only have a couple of days with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousC Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 First, I'd like to say that I'm thoroughly impress ed with Cobb's customer service. At any rate, I got a response from Cobb today...the guy helping me out said he'd put me in contact with Christian (yay?). He also said they've started using % gained instead of numbers because (as you know) numbers vary from dyno to dyno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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