Push-button starter pic in the Summer 2008 SOA Drive magazine?

[Pig Pen]

 

this feature could be a deal breaker for me.. i see no positives in a push button start

 

i dont see what the big deal of unlocking your own doors is... at least we still have one key lock on the drivers side incase our current keyless entry system fails.. what if your key fobb fails and you dont have a key to turn and manually unlock your door.. and i am very paranoid about whether my car is locked when leaving it somewhere and do not like the idea of my car unlocking on its own if im within a set distance..

 

imagine your key fobb breaking and then the push button start not working.. "in my day all we needed was a jump/pop start a car, now look at these newfangled machines" i would say as i bang my head on the steering wheel...then once you do get your car started/towed you have to pay for a replacment key fob.. imagine that price $$$

 

cars are getting way to techy (i think i invented that word) for me.. i want a raw automobile that i feel connected to as i drive.. i dont want to feel like a passenger in my own car... thats what drew me to the 05 lgt in the first place.. it had the creature comforts i was looking for (leather, moonroof, 6disc cd,) a few that were surprisingly nice (heated seats,dual climate control, heated wipers,temp, mpg, travel time) but nothing left desired... and in the end its just me and the motor, no inhibitors (im talking to you si drive, vdc) and a 5spd manual tranny...

 

EDIT: where do i get drive magazine? and are there any other free suby magazines

[IwannaSportSedan]

Ironically, a raw automobile, that you feel connected to as you drive, would have a starter button.

 

A button is easier than a momentary switch in the key cylinder. The old sports cars, after the crank start, had button starts, to engage the electric starter, because a momentary button is as simple as pie. The chances of it failing are much lower than getting a flat tire, a dead battery, or losing your keys.

 

People have been making those arguments since the electric starter replaced the crank.

 

Power windows vs crank windows.

Power locks vs manual locks.

Electric guages vs mechanical gauges that require physical sample tubes and connections, rather than just wires...

 

They will always have fail-safes, like at least one door that unlocks manually. But even our Legacy doesn't have a key cylinder on the trunk lid, yet no one has ever gotten locked out of their trunk, if they have access to the interior.

 

But the chances of a momentary button failing are insanely low, and probably lower than the chances of the switch behind your ignition key cylinder failing, which is harder to access in order to replace.

 

Key fob breaking is very rare, but I'll bet that it can still be used, even if it is damaged. it is an RFID chip that reflects a number when pinged with a radio signal. The car generates the radio signal, not the keyfob or the key. as long as the little RFID silicon chip is intact, even if the keyfob is damaged, it will still work.

 

Our 2005 Legacys already have that technology embedded in the head of the key. Keyless ignition just extends the range to allow you to keep the key in your pocket, instead of the steering column, and then a button starts the engine, rather than a twist of the key cylinder.

 

I am not sure why nissan is stupid enough to make you put the keyfob into the dashboard. The big selling point of other manufacturers' system, is that you don't need to fumble with your keys. They stay in your pocket, and keep your hands free. It is especially geared toward women, who keep their keys in their purses, and don't have to fish for them, and set down whatever else they may be carrying.

 

Keys in the purse or pocket, you can walk up to the car, and push a tiny button on the trunk lid, and it pops open for you, you can unload what you are carrying, close the trunk, and get in the car, start the engine with a button press, and drive away. Keys stay put. But if something does go awry, you can use the key to get into the driver's door, pull the trunk release, and if the key cylinder still exists on the column, you can put the key in it, and then use the button, if the wireless fob fails. It fails 'safe', so you can still use the vehicle.

 

Plus fewer key cylinders on the outside of the car is actually a good thing. It is less expensive to key the whole car the same way, fewer locks to break, or freeze in the winter. It is more secure to have only one lock access point, rather than five. (four doors and a trunk)

 

Opening the driver's door with a key gives you access to everything else. The glove box, and trunk/fuel release lockout, and ignition are all accessible from the same key that unlocks the driver's door. Hood release is available if the car battery is dead, and the power locks aren't working. The interior door locks can be unlocked manually at the door release, except the rear doors if the child locks are enabled, but that isn't often. if the battery is dead, you need to jump start anyway, and the power locks will be available as soon as the jumper cables are connected to another car, or a jump-box battery.

[lilbrudder]

Such a garbage gimmick. As long as you require a key to plug in...it is useless.

 

I would have settled for some kind of discreet key chain or wallet card which by virtue of its proximity to the car, correctly identifies "the key" and lets you start the engine at the press of a button. Much like the immobilizer feature inside the key.

 

But as things stand, my buddy with 335i still plugs in a key then pushes a button. Sorry, but that is more actions/effort than me plugging and twisting a key.

 

Your buddy is doing it wrong, tell him to leave that key in his pocket and press start! my uncle has one, they have a slot in the dash but it's not necassary to put the key in(they are proximity too). next time you get in his car you can show him up.

[MGV101]

Ironically, a raw automobile, that you feel connected to as you drive, would have a starter button.

 

A button is easier than a momentary switch in the key cylinder. The old sports cars, after the crank start, had button starts, to engage the electric starter, because a momentary button is as simple as pie. The chances of it failing are much lower than getting a flat tire, a dead battery, or losing your keys.

 

People have been making those arguments since the electric starter replaced the crank.

 

Power windows vs crank windows.

Power locks vs manual locks.

Electric guages vs mechanical gauges that require physical sample tubes and connections, rather than just wires...

 

They will always have fail-safes, like at least one door that unlocks manually. But even our Legacy doesn't have a key cylinder on the trunk lid, yet no one has ever gotten locked out of their trunk, if they have access to the interior.

 

But the chances of a momentary button failing are insanely low, and probably lower than the chances of the switch behind your ignition key cylinder failing, which is harder to access in order to replace.

 

Key fob breaking is very rare, but I'll bet that it can still be used, even if it is damaged. it is an RFID chip that reflects a number when pinged with a radio signal. The car generates the radio signal, not the keyfob or the key. as long as the little RFID silicon chip is intact, even if the keyfob is damaged, it will still work.

 

Our 2005 Legacys already have that technology embedded in the head of the key. Keyless ignition just extends the range to allow you to keep the key in your pocket, instead of the steering column, and then a button starts the engine, rather than a twist of the key cylinder.

 

I am not sure why nissan is stupid enough to make you put the keyfob into the dashboard. The big selling point of other manufacturers' system, is that you don't need to fumble with your keys. They stay in your pocket, and keep your hands free. It is especially geared toward women, who keep their keys in their purses, and don't have to fish for them, and set down whatever else they may be carrying.

 

Keys in the purse or pocket, you can walk up to the car, and push a tiny button on the trunk lid, and it pops open for you, you can unload what you are carrying, close the trunk, and get in the car, start the engine with a button press, and drive away. Keys stay put. But if something does go awry, you can use the key to get into the driver's door, pull the trunk release, and if the key cylinder still exists on the column, you can put the key in it, and then use the button, if the wireless fob fails. It fails 'safe', so you can still use the vehicle.

 

Plus fewer key cylinders on the outside of the car is actually a good thing. It is less expensive to key the whole car the same way, fewer locks to break, or freeze in the winter. It is more secure to have only one lock access point, rather than five. (four doors and a trunk)

 

Opening the driver's door with a key gives you access to everything else. The glove box, and trunk/fuel release lockout, and ignition are all accessible from the same key that unlocks the driver's door. Hood release is available if the car battery is dead, and the power locks aren't working. The interior door locks can be unlocked manually at the door release, except the rear doors if the child locks are enabled, but that isn't often. if the battery is dead, you need to jump start anyway, and the power locks will be available as soon as the jumper cables are connected to another car, or a jump-box battery.

The button will fail and I have seen it fail. The car must detect the presence of your key before the button will work. If the key is low on battery, malfunctioning or you are in a high interference area, the button may not work. Since the introduction of the Keyless-Go for the JDM Legacy, I have heard of two incidences where the car had to be towed away from its current location before it would start due to interferences from the area.

 

There is no actual key cylinder in the car and there is no fail safe. If it fails, it fails. Anyway, the keyless start button feature is such a convenient feature that I think it is worth the risk. I never liked it much before I have it but once I got used to it I loved it or you might say it turned me lazy and now I cannot go back to the old key in the cylinder system.

[IwannaSportSedan]

RF interference is not a failure of a momentary button. A failure of a momentary button is when the button itself fails to make an electrical connection. RF interference is not a problem with a push button, it is a problem with the RF transceiver or the RF signal.

 

The key doesn't have a battery in it... as far as I know. it reflects a signal it doesn't generate one. At least on the security system on the 05-07 or so cars... The coded keys are not at all powered, they modulate and reflect a radio signal that they receive from the car. The signal is very low power, probably only milliwatts. RF interference can interfere with that.

 

I notice that my FM modulator that broadcasts music from my iPhone to my stereo gets MUCH noisier in the city, and almost unuseable near stop lights, due to interference. Similar principle, even if the frequency is different.

 

RFID is low power, so interference can garble the signal easily. A garbled signal is no different than an un-recognized key code, as the computer sees it, and it will not enable the starter, and the button command will be ignored until the key signal matches the recognized numbers. I would think that holding the key/fob close to the steering column, or wherever the RFID tranceiver is mounted in the car, would return more of the signal, and allow the system to work. Otherwise they should not remove the column key cylinder as a fail safe.

 

The RFID tranceiver for the security keys on the 05-07 era cars, before the keyless start, is mounted under the steering column, inside the plastic shroud, IIRC.

 

IF the keyless start system tranceiver is in the same place, then holding the key/fob next to it should produce enough reflected signal strength to start the vehicle, unless there is a high wattage transmitter very close by.

[Viber]

The Mazda push button system is very slick. You never need to take the fob out your pocket, but it also has a key in case the electronics fail. I prefer Subaru incorporate a similar feature in the 2010 model.