2005 OB Limited: Front end vibration is pronounced

[wader]

Hi Folks, I was referenced here by the kind folks at SubaruOutback.org, since it was noted that Bill Kolb Jr. Subaru has been mentioned here, before. So, I'm cross-posting this topic between the two boards, and hope that's acceptable.

 

Essentially, I thought that after cajoling my local Service Department into actually taking my complaint of a ship-problem front end issue with driver-side looseness in the suspension and excessive vibration which also comes back to the steering wheel (and, makes trips beyond 20 minutes a chore), my problems would have been solved by a new tire balancing and check of the suspension/bushings/etc.

 

Not so - it still has a vibration which is not what I've experienced in prior test drives of other 2005 Outbacks, nor even in their loaner cars. Yet, they insist that their folks cannot detect what I've clearly and quite easily demonstrated to them as unacceptable - and possibly, indicative of something more serious from the manufacturing line - so, I've insisted that a regional Service Rep discuss this with me ASAP.

 

Meanwhile, I'm actually mulling over the dealership's 30-day, money-back guarantee - even though I like everything about the car except this one, insidious problem. Essentially, this Service experience is not only turning me off from the Outback which I otherwise want to enjoy, but especially from their dealership - and, we even bought a 2004 Forester from them earlier in the year.

 

This is Bill Kolb Jr. Subaru in Orangeburg, NY - I liked their Sales experience, and while Service has been listening to me, it's been both with obvious reluctance, unhidden disdain and even subtle put-downs concerning the fact that I drove a German car before this one (i.e., the implication being that I'm somehow making unfair comparisons between the Outback and Audi).

 

I have a history of finding something terribly wrong with every single one of my new cars, from 5 different manufacturers - and, I have yet to be proven wrong by them. Many times, it's taken numerous visits, various Service Departments and even some years to get traction, but I've had serious issues recognized and either fixed in my car or fixed in later model years for my Honda, Acura, Toyota, Ford and Audi. I don't try to find things, it just happens to be my luck that I'm "mechanically sensitive" . Probably comes, in part, from being my own mechanic for a 1972 Ford Mustang over 130K miles of driving that fun, frustrating beast.

 

From our very positive Forester experience (excepting the inaccurate Climate Control, which I have found - despite their protestations to the contrary - is likely due to a design problem), I was hoping that nothing major would hit with the Outback for many miles after delivery. Instead, I drove it from the lot and, although it kept a straight line, turns don't track very well and the front end would rumble and even vibrate - especially noticable on the driver's side. Even the steering wheel transmits this vibration, again, primarily on the driver's (i.e., left) side of the wheel.

 

Has anyone here experienced similar problems, and/or do you possibly have any Service center recommendations for the NY/NJ/CT tri-state area?

 

Thanks for consideration,

 

- wader

[c_hunter]

Do yourself a favor and try a dedicated tire/suspension shop. Have them thoroughly balance all the wheels and do a full alignment. If that cures the problem, then call the Subaru 1-800 number and/or write them -- chances are they will reimburse the cost once you have explained the whole situation (they are very nice to deal with if you are cool about it).

 

I hate to say it, but I have gotten some of the worst tire/suspension service from dealerships. They tend to have outdated equipment that is often out of calibration. In contrast, I have gotten some of the best balances and alignments from tire shops (Firestone, in particular, gave my previous Outback a great alignment when I bought new tires).

 

Does the vibration happen in a particular speed range or does it happen all the time?

 

CRaig

[wader]

Hi Craig, thanks for your helpful advice: yes, I've been considering the same thing, so I appreciate your advice for looking elsewhere on help to check for balance/alignment issues. I noticed that if the tires lose some air up front (in fact, they lost a couple lbs each over the past week - sudden change to colder weather?), the vibrations in the front - especially coming through the steering wheel - get markedly worse.

 

I almost lost complete control going less than the speed limit over a transition from average highway surface to a bridged portion in the NJ Meadowlands area yesterday, as the steering wheel jumped to the right with the tires making a sudden shift with the relatively slight bump. Incredible. Noticed later that I was only at 30 and 29.5lbs up front already, so inflated them back to 32lbs (cold) for my trip back, and things were much more stable. Still, vibration remains and understeer is everywhere.

 

It was recommended at the other board to find a place which uses the GSP9700 system for balancing and such, apparently on their good experiences with it helping minimize vibrations - a few places around here seem to have it, though I'm open to other suggestions for consideration of how to get this condition better under control. I'm even considering an upgrade to these lousy stock tires, considering I was used to hand-picking high-performance all-season types from tirerack.com for my Audi over the past seven years.

 

- wader

[c_hunter]

Hmmm, what you describe sounds like a potentially serious issue.

 

If it were a balance issue, you would feel vibrations through the wheel that were most noticeable around a cartain speed range. At other speeds, the vibrations might be nil.

 

Step 1 would be to verify that the front wheels were evenly mounted and the lugs properly torqued. For that, I would jack the car, and remove and remount the wheels. While you are at it, give the wheels and tires a good lookover, and clean off any gunk or undercoating that may be stuck to the wheel or tire (Subaru is sloppy when they spray the undercoating and it often lands on the inside of the wheels).

 

Try one thing for me -- at a low speed, set the wheel straight ahead and then take your hands off the wheel and go 10-15 mph. Does the car track straight then?? Apply the brakes (still with hands off the wheel) -- does the car veer in either direction??

 

Craig

[PGT]

FWIW, I had a recurring problem with the car drifting right on all road conditions since new (I have 3200 miles since Nov 2). Alignment checked out, as did tire pressure, all bushings and serviceable pieces. I had the car in on two different occasions, even directing the service guys to look at the wheels/tires for the problem. When switching to my 18" (used) Volk wheels with Bridgestone SO-3's, the problem goes away and the car tracks straight. Seems my issue was with the dreaded RE-92s, though I could never get the dealer to do anything about it.

 

I just moved those tires over to our new Mini Cooper S convertible for winter duty on some used wheels we picked up. If the problem pops up on the MCS, we will have successfully ruled out other causes and isolated it to the tires.

 

It's not unheard of for a tire to be out of round. I suspect Craig's advice is best - have the wheels rebalanced at a 'real' tire shop. Their equipment should be good enough to tell if there is an issue. If there is, then call SOA and get a refund for the work and get them to have the local dealer replace the offending tires under Bridgestone's warranty.

 

Also - check the edges of your rims, inside and out. Your symptoms can also be caused by wheel damage like a bent inner lip from a pothole or offroad excursion (who knows how the car was driven before you took delivery?). Stranger things have happened, not that I am saying that I have ever had that problem. <wink wink>

[wader]

If it were a balance issue, you would feel vibrations through the wheel that were most noticeable around a cartain speed range. At other speeds, the vibrations might be nil.

 

Step 1 would be to verify that the front wheels were evenly mounted and the lugs properly torqued. For that, I would jack the car, and remove and remount the wheels. While you are at it, give the wheels and tires a good lookover, and clean off any gunk or undercoating that may be stuck to the wheel or tire (Subaru is sloppy when they spray the undercoating and it often lands on the inside of the wheels).

 

Try one thing for me -- at a low speed, set the wheel straight ahead and then take your hands off the wheel and go 10-15 mph. Does the car track straight then?? Apply the brakes (still with hands off the wheel) -- does the car veer in either direction??

 

They actually took all the wheels down and did a re-balancing (denying it needed such) while looking at the bushing, too - which actually helped a little - however, once the tires lose pressure a bit from the changing temps here, the symptoms become much more noticeable, again. Very sensitive, apparently.

 

Were you possibly thinking of sticky/uneven brakes? I was wondering about this, since I experienced such a thing actually affecting the front end while driving in my prior car, but your test which I tried here didn't seem to indicate any odd pulling when braking or drift while at lower speeds.

 

The loose clunk and constant vibration (which gets worse at higher speeds, yes) are there at all times, but I'm simply sensitized enough to feel it then. For demonstrating to a mechanic, I need to make it obvious enough by taking the car out at higher speeds. Around 70MPH makes it undeniable by anyone, for example. The vibration gets exceptionally obvious by simply turning the steering wheel while driving straight - even a slight amount gives you the most obvious symptom.

 

Thanks for your thoughts - definitely appreciated. My biggest worry has been that there might be a transmission or other powertrain issue, since I have severe vibration and rumbling around 30-40MPH, though that seems to be because I'm at very low revs while the auto transmission has yet to make up its mind on whether to shift or not - this is not a smooth tranny, and it felt similarly in that respect for even their loaner car. By contrast, our Forester always feels neutral and the car's feedback never intrudes on the actual driving.

 

BTW, not sure if I mentioned, but a long, tight on-ramp to the lower level of the George Washington Bridge (westbound) from the Henry Hudson (north) recently saw the rear end skipping out on me at numerous points - once again, supporting my assertion in less severe situations that it doesn't feel as if the front and rear are tracking very well. Is that purely an alignment issue, or somehow related to what I'm feeling here? That is, if front and rear are generally not working well together, I could imagine the side-effects being the vibration as something of a progression towards the eventual rear-end wagging and skipping out on me that I've also experienced.

 

I'm off to find a good shop for checking out my wheels and suspension pieces this week . . .

 

- wader

[Z4]

I suffer from the same exact problem.

 

A constant vibration at high speed that occasionally goes away.

 

Back to the dealer for #2.

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

Bill Kolb