Voo Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I bought my car and the person that sold it to me had the relevant COBB mods to take it to Stage II, but the car is currently running "Stock". I spoke to a COBB rep and he said that it's actually more dangerous for me to run my car stock, than it is to flash the ECU to Stage II. He also suggested that if I wanted to continue to run it with a stock ECU, that I should actually replace the COBB parts with the original LGT ones. Now, in case you haven't already deduced, I'm a TOTAL n00b when it comes to tuning and modding my car. Does anyone have experience with COBB and how "safe" (relatively speaking) is Stage II? I reside in Vegas and we only have 91-octane available (no 79 gas stations here) and will that cause knocking problems? And how can I tell if my car is actually knocking? Finally, does anyone know of any reputable Subie tuners here in the Las Vegas area? Thanks all, really appreciate all the help I've gotten so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 A lot of folks have logged a lot of miles on a basic Stage 2 setup (with the appropriate tune..cobb or otherwise) with no problems at all. If you have the Cobb AP, go ahead and flash the stage 2 map, just make sure it is the 91 octane map (not the 93). It is not smart to run your car with stage 2 parts without a tune..some folks have done it without any problems, but I would not suggest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Here is more dependability info on Stage 2 http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78672 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I spoke to a COBB rep and he said that it's actually more dangerous for me to run my car stock, than it is to flash the ECU to Stage II. I can't really think of a good reason why this is the case. "Stage 2 hardware" really only consist of up-pipe, down-pipe and/or cat-back exhaust. Cat-less up-pipe is standard for '07+ so there is no danger there. Nor is aftermarket cat-back exhaust any more dangerous than stock exhaust. The only thing I can think of is if the stock ECU tune could some how cause the high-flow cat in the down-pipe to overheat and break apart. I really don't think that's a likely scenario. Now, if you have an intake then it could cause the engine to run lean and that's bad. But an intake is not part of recommended "stage 2 hardware"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSpeed Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I spoke to a COBB rep and he said that it's actually more dangerous for me to run my car stock, than it is to flash the ECU to Stage II. He also suggested that if I wanted to continue to run it with a stock ECU, that I should actually replace the COBB parts with the original LGT ones. Selling an AP to you is their bread and butter... I'd be interested to hear the technical details vs. speculation on why it's more dangerous, if nothing else to simply learn something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Subscribed. I can't see why running on the stock flash with Stage 2 hardware could be harmful. If you think about it, the basic Stage 2 requirement is the catless up and down. What, the extra turbulence and easier flow is somewhat better? The tech said "might" be harmful and that can be true because you can never know what other hardware was installed on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniperdan Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 BOOST CREEP/SPIKE. THE STOCK WASTE GATE WITH THAT DOWN PIPE CAN'T KEEP UP. A quick shift boost spikes engine runs lean parts go boom!!! i read that on another forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voo Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Well, the tech from COBB knew that I already had the parts and the AP. I thought that they might try to sell me something, but since I already had all the required parts and he suggested I "revert back to stock", I was totally thrown. Glad for all the tips and info. I will definitely start looking into getting Stage 2 - 91 OCT flashed. Just kinda nervous since a screw up on my part could render the car inoperable AND void all of my extended warranty Additional Details: The guy I bought the car from had all the mods done with COBB parts. Airbox is stock (but I am prob gonna change to a K&N box filter), no CAT, basically exhaust mods only, from what I am told. Does that constitute as Stage II? I'm just terrified I'll blow something expensive and cry my way to the bank, and then the Subie dealer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 As you are a self confessed noob, then I would suggest that you take the car to someone who knows what they are looking at, just to verify that you do indeed have the required "parts". Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgray Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Why not the 93 onctane tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbone Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Because if you don't actually run 93 on a 93 octane tune, you'll trigger a tear in the universe and we all die. In all seriousness, it ain't healthy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voo Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Well, (for the LIFE of me), I can't seem to find a Subie Tuner in the Las Vegas area! >.< It's driving me absolutely BONKERS! That and my dealer frowns on aftermarket mods:-\ UPDATE: My car only has the SS 3" Street Downpipe mod to the exhaust (along with the heatshield), I've emailed COBB to see if that's sufficient to upgrade the ECU to Stage II, does anyone know if that's still doable, or do I require more extensive mods? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfish11 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 you should have an aftermarket uppipe too. There is a cat in your stock 06 uppipe, and to prevent this from breaking up and getting sucked through, people replace the uppipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzkrackin83 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Well, (for the LIFE of me), I can't seem to find a Subie Tuner in the Las Vegas area! >.< i think its time you take a trip to so cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voo Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 you should have an aftermarket uppipe too. There is a cat in your stock 06 uppipe, and to prevent this from breaking up and getting sucked through, people replace the uppipe. Strange thing is that the previous owner told me that the CAT has been removed. If that's the case, will I still require a new Uppipe? Is there a way to physically see if the CAT is there? Other than putting it on a lift that is. As for the trip to CA, my friend and I drive from LV to CA and back again in 14hr (1-way rental to pick up my LGT, and a straight turnaround), covering 600+miles in abt 14hrs. Boy were we tired after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneskiian Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Only way to tell if the UP has been "de-catted" is to actually remove it and look inside. If it has been de-catted, then, no, you don't need an after market UP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wuzkrackin83 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Strange thing is that the previous owner told me that the CAT has been removed. If that's the case, will I still require a new Uppipe? Is there a way to physically see if the CAT is there? Other than putting it on a lift that is. As for the trip to CA, my friend and I drive from LV to CA and back again in 14hr (1-way rental to pick up my LGT, and a straight turnaround), covering 600+miles in abt 14hrs. Boy were we tired after that. 14 hours . im assuming you stayed for a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgray Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Anyone got a link explaing the BAD of 93 octane, this is the first i have heard of it... I Run 94 in my truck..works great...must be 2.5T specific problem...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 ^^ the OP only had 91 octane gas available near him. 91 octane gas with 93 octane tune is not good...however, a 93 octane tune with 93 octane as = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 you should have an aftermarket uppipe too. There is a cat in your stock 06 uppipe, and to prevent this from breaking up and getting sucked through, people replace the uppipe. +1 although you don't technically need a catless up for stage 2, you should get one because the higher exaust temps can (in some rare cases) cause the cat to break apart and destroy the turbo. With that said, I ran stage 2 with just a gutted DP for 6 months without any problems before I decided to swap the Up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 There are 3 cats in the '06 LGT. Two of them are in the down pipe, which are no longer there since you have an aftermarket DP. The third one is in the UP. Make sure you have a cat-less UP because it's not worth the risk. If the cat breaks up in the UP the debris will be ingested by the turbo. To put it mildly, that's very very bad for the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voo Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 Oh boogers.... 3 CATS. Is there a cost-effective and safe option available for removing the final CAT? There's on COBB tuner here, so that option is out the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 You can try to take the stock cat out and try to do a DIY de-cat but there is some risk involve there. If you don't do a very good job of removing all the cat from the UP they will get into the turbo. Aftermarket cat-less UP is only about $100 so it's really not worth the risk IMO. Labor is for the install is the expensive part if you can't do it yourself, ~$200-300. Maybe you can see if you can find a local forum member that would be willing to help you with the install for beer and pizza... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec B Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 One other option you have is to run Stage 1 until you get your catless UP. That way you make more HP and you do not need to worry about the cat breaking up. But in all honesty..I would run the stage 2 map until you could get a new up pipe. Like I said, I ran stage 2 for about 6 months with the stock up. When I eventually swapped it, the cat in the up showed no ill effects.. Obviously alot of that has to do with driving style (I am rarely driving it hard) and the condition of the cat when you bought the car. I think a cat breakup in the up is a very rare event in the LGT. It is definitely not what I would consider a common occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenc544 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I think a cat breakup in the up is a very rare event in the LGT. It is definitely not what I would consider a common occurrence. I agree. But I still don't think it's worth the risk. Tis better to live with stage 1 power than pay for a new turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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