Whitestar Pilot Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Hijacked a quote from Hodgeee here, and decided to open a new thread for discussion about this. [quote name='hodgeee']Forget the mitsubishi. Did you read in Car and Driver about a lot of peoples engines had catastrophic failures and the dealerships are refusing to fix their motors without the owners paying $7000 for a new motor from Mitsu. They would check the computer and if they saw that the car had been driven to redline several times, they would say that the owner was racing and voided their warrenty. I am sorry, but If you make my car to have max hp at redline. In everyday driving I am going to hit that mark a few bits, and they better as hell fix it if it blows. The car is suppost to be designed to take that. When I had my old truck with no power, I used to floor it everywhere, otherwise it was a slug in traffic and would piss people off. It lasted 160,000 miles before the rings wore out. Drove that thing at 100% throttle for it's entire life. In my flat4 club out here a few Evo guys come out socialize since they don't have their own club. One of them had a rod break, and they are refusing the service on his. He was furious, but I would be too. His was stock! Now according to all the magazines their are supposed to be a slew of 550hp Evo's out there on the stock crank, makes me wonder?[/QUOTE] Sounds like the EVO is just a Lancer pumped up on steriods. We know what happens to athletes maxed out on steriods, and it seems like the Lancer is no different (except instead of peeing blood, the Lancer's just throw engine rods). :) Okay, okay, that was uncalled for. But seriously, Hodgeee is right on. If the EVO can't be driven at WOT near redline without serious risk, then Mitsubishi has poorly designed the motor. It's little 4-banger is obviously getting way too much forced induction for the internals to handle. We know the Legacy GT is under-boosted somewhat, which is a much more intelligent way to sell a car that was marketed as a performance vehicle, right? Oh, and here's another issue. Did a quick scan of an Evo forum, and came up on this frightening thread: [URL]http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=36369[/URL] 25% of respondants have lost their clutch BEFORE 10,000 miles! Over 120 Evo clutches down and out at under 10,000 miles! Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ih8vtec13 Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Mitsubishi is not a very reliable car in general, but the EVO is an AWD lancer on steroids for the most part. It's realy stupid that they void a warnty due to racing, come one it's a performance driven car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSB Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 [url]http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12929-1406902,00.html[/url] and by the looks of this article they are just getting silly, but they reckon that the warranty will still be valid in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I dont know about that the 4G63 is supposedly one of mistubishi's best engines... It has had a history of making big power on stock internals. I wonder if these are isolated incidents or if it is an ongoing problem. Ive never heard about this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I must say that is one of the most silliest things I have ever heard. Please answer me this, WHY DOES STi work so hard to compete against the EVO if it was crap. I think we all know the answer. If the STi had the engine of the EVO, nothing would keep with it. If EVO was having dramas with their engines, Mitsubishi World Wide would not ask but TELL their dealerships to fix them ASAP. For ppl living in Australia, we all know the difficult times that Mitsubishi are going thru and what they are doing to try and fix their image. There is NO WAY EVER that Mitsu would let this happen. If this is the case, please advise your source is....... otherwise this is total rubbish. You might ask why Im venting for the competition, Im not really, just hate to see other ppl tear down bulletproof and proven cars that STi are working so hard to beat in every aspect. I would rather STi beat EVO in a fair fight....... Im not flaming anyone honest, just some comments, well you know what I mean... Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nendo Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 evo 8 is an awsome car.. sti and evo r supercars if i wasnt a subaru guy i would an evo guy straight up,, their engine is awsome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mines Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I second that the evo is a great car. May not be one of the prettiest looking cars, but if u want a performance car, its a sure bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agctr Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Thanks for the support guys appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I'd love an Evo MR. I think it'd be a hoot. If I were single, hmm... but I'm not. Wifey no likey the boy-racer look. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I'm sorry but performance alone doesn't make a great car. If the car cannot be driven hard reliably, and if Mitsu will not support its cars, then this car is total crap. Mitsubishi has only been in Canada for a couple of years and there are tons of horor stories already. Unreliable cars, bad dealers, dealers not honoring warranty items, Mitsu not paying back dealers for warranty items, etc. etc. Mitsubishi is fighting for its life right now, and they sure aren't doing a good job at it. I personally owned an Eagle Talon 15 years ago, and it spent more time in the shop then on the road, literally. I swore never to buy one of their cars again. Sly Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderkind Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 ^^^ agreed. the EVO comes out tops over the STI marginally on magazine tests. However in real life, it is totally the opposite. Subaru don't need to work hard to top the EVO. It's and evolution (pun unintended) of competition b/t two cars. Much like the Pony car years. We all watched how Mitsu dominated WRC for a few years. But that's Makinnen's Mitsu. After he left, Mitsu was in the doldrums. In contrast, Subaru has been very consistent whether there was a marquee driver or not. Mitsu supplies cars and engines to Proton (a Malaysian car mfg). It is a well known fact that those cars are crap. Creating a high-performance car is a science, however creating a high-performance reliable car is an art form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I must say that is one of the most silliest things I have ever heard. Please answer me this, WHY DOES STi work so hard to compete against the EVO if it was crap. I think we all know the answer. If the STi had the engine of the EVO, nothing would keep with it. If EVO was having dramas with their engines, Mitsubishi World Wide would not ask but TELL their dealerships to fix them ASAP. For ppl living in Australia, we all know the difficult times that Mitsubishi are going thru and what they are doing to try and fix their image. There is NO WAY EVER that Mitsu would let this happen. If this is the case, please advise your source is....... otherwise this is total rubbish. You might ask why Im venting for the competition, Im not really, just hate to see other ppl tear down bulletproof and proven cars that STi are working so hard to beat in every aspect. I would rather STi beat EVO in a fair fight....... The new STi Spec C > FQ320. As far as I'm concerned, a FQ400 is a FQ320 with a larger turbo....I think I'd still go with a new Spec C over it...Subaru has really made some amazing changes to it. What about the WR1 you say? The WR1 is just rubbish, plain and simple. To make the WR1, they took a perfectly good spec c and screwed it all up. Lower, softer, less grip, and less power sounds like a great idea for a special edition don't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Lower, softer, less grip, and less power sounds like a great idea for a special edition don't it? I think they call that a "Limited" Edition! Sly Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mante Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I'm sorry but performance alone doesn't make a great car. If the car cannot be driven hard reliably, and if Mitsu will not support its cars, then this car is total crap. I agree a great performance car HAS to be reliable...without a doubt. Now in most (not all) of hte horror stories of Evo owners they always neglect to tell that they missed a shift or did the infemous shift from 4th to 3rd by mistake..it happens ( to those unlucky few) But the 4g63T is by far one of the most durable world recognized motors around, not really over engineered like the 2jz from toyota but it does a damn good job. like how Agctr, nendo, Mines and racerdave mentioned a few bad incidents does not mean the car isnt frankly impressive. If you can not admit that, hell respect it then theres a serious problem. ^^^ agreed. the EVO comes out tops over the STI marginally on magazine tests. However in real life, it is totally the opposite. Subaru don't need to work hard to top the EVO. Really, cause I never see that...NEVER.. even at the Sti vs evo shootout. Who won? Evo's Now there were breaks or DNF on both sides but honestly the WRX's broke in alot more comical fashion, I mean having to get towed from the middle of the track just says it all to me. The majority of wrx/sti's see on the road are owned by middle aged men going through a midlife crisis so of course they last.. Im not getting on one person's case just making sure both basis are covered, I love both cars. My main car is more similar to a Evo but I also take pride in my legacy, they do different jobs very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emlevins Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I personally owned an Eagle Talon 15 years ago, and it spent more time in the shop then on the road, literally. I swore never to buy one of their cars again. Sly I'll respectfully disagree. I owned two Eagle Talon Tsi AWD vehicles (90, 95) and loved them both. Admittedly, the first did have issues with the brake rotors which went out a few times and the car also had some shimmy in the steering wheel which was difficult to eliminate. My 95, however, had few if any problems. And both were a ball to drive and did very, very well in the snow. Had mitsu come out with a WRX-like vehicle before Subaru, I might have bought it. 05 SWP Legacy GT Limited (aka "Pearl")- 5MT AP - Stage 2 Protuned (238/284) - wife driven 07 BMW 335xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Well honestly I know nothing about the Evo, never even sat in one. But I know more then enough about Mitsubishi. Also, I don't compete, so all I'm after is a car that gives me great performance and enjoyment, reliably, and from a company that stands behind it's cars. So I couldn't care less if the Evo beats the STi on the track. Heck, I own a jacked up wagon Sly Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I think the "if a car can't be driven hard reliably" comment misses the point that the driver has to have some skills. If people are clutch-dumping, and doing full rally starts and otherwise beating on the car, of course it is going to break. It's the same reason that some people said the WRX had a "glass transmission," while others, who also fully enjoyed their cars, just thought they were fast, reliable and fun. I don't trust message boards as far as I can throw them, frankly. Just as people with WRXes would blow up the car, remove mods then take it in for service only to have dealers deny the claims, who knows what's going on with EVOs. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mante Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 I don't trust message boards as far as I can throw them, frankly. Just as people with WRXes would blow up the car, remove mods then take it in for service only to have dealers deny the claims, who knows what's going on with EVOs. Kevin I was thinking the same thing. Very good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 4G63s are proven...just not in 2g Eclipses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooked4Life Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 IMHO the 4G63 is a great engine. I owned a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi and for the age of that car it performed great. The car put down 335 HP 330 TQ to the wheels on all stock internals. This was using VP 116 octane and boost at 24 PSI. I had comman parts go on the car like brake rotors, alternator go bad but for a 1990 with 128k miles and all stock internals that isnt bad at all. Yes they had issues with people not changing their timing belts early enough, the hilacious valve ticking noises in the winter, but overall a very strong car for the money. I bought a LGT last week and could not be happier. Its a totally different feel, but out of the box it had the comfortability and performance that I wanted. http://www.dsmgarage.com/will_dyno.gif http://www.dsmgarage.com/talon_front.jpg http://www.dsmgarage.com/fpr_engine_bay.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sduford Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 A 1990 Eagle Talon TSi is exactly what I had, brand new, on a 2 year lease (thank god!). Out of 24 months, the car spent 18 months in the shop. (we don't have a lemon law in Canada) They changed everything on it, the turbo, the ignition system, the injection system, you name it. Everything was new except the engine block. Never again. Sylvain www.digitalfotographer.com - Audi Q5 Club - MB-GLK Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcsine Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Our boost pressure is 14PSI if I remember correctly, and the Evo turbo makes 19PSI. It's a smaller-displacement engine, though, don't know if that makes much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooked4Life Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 They also changed a lot of things on the Talon/Eclipse line starting in 1992. The Late 89/90/91 models had several issues. That is including a weak 3 bolt rear. The sad thing is the 1G DSM was superior to the 2G DSM since in 1995 they went OBII and made cheaper parts (one of them the BOV) which impacted performance. I miss my Talon, and have been in quite a few that would make the passenger hold on for dear life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitestar Pilot Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 I must say that is one of the most silliest things I have ever heard. Please answer me this, WHY DOES STi work so hard to compete against the EVO if it was crap. I think we all know the answer. If the STi had the engine of the EVO, nothing would keep with it. If EVO was having dramas with their engines, Mitsubishi World Wide would not ask but TELL their dealerships to fix them ASAP. For ppl living in Australia, we all know the difficult times that Mitsubishi are going thru and what they are doing to try and fix their image. There is NO WAY EVER that Mitsu would let this happen. If this is the case, please advise your source is....... otherwise this is total rubbish. You might ask why Im venting for the competition, Im not really, just hate to see other ppl tear down bulletproof and proven cars that STi are working so hard to beat in every aspect. I would rather STi beat EVO in a fair fight....... Im not flaming anyone honest, just some comments, well you know what I mean... Adam. So far we've got some interesting responses from this thread, and that's why I started it. If you think the notion is silly, then it doesn't hurt my feelings. But, why do we hear so few stories from the Subaru crowd like "Never again, never another Subaru," as opposed to MANY nightmare stories about Mitsubishi? Personally, I have 2 stories about Mitsu that I haven't even told yet, one involving an '88 Starion (owned in 1993), and another with warranty service denial on an '02 Eclipse GT automatic. The 2nd car wasn't mine (thank God or I might be in jail for assaulting the dealership manager), but I am one of those in the crowd of "I will NEVER own a Mitsubishi product again." And what about those bullet-proof Evo clutches? 1 in 4 go out before 10,000 miles? There were hundreds of responses on that survey, with over 120 early clutch failures. So maybe, just maybe what the Evo is, is a disposable toy for rich individuals to play with. One could make the argument that this is what all sports cars really are, but with the Evo, seems like "game over" comes flashing up on the screen quite a bit sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTM 525 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 First time I ever saw or even heard of an Evo was when I smoked one on the way home from a car show with the SS. Young guy who actually initiated the whole thing and I thought he was kidding. I'm taking it slow like 50ish and he comes up along side me reving the snot out of it. He slows down blinking his headlights so I stop he pulls up next to me and dumps it and gets out about 10 feet. As soon as I can lay it down to where the wheels will grab a bit I sucked him in and spit him out. Hey with a 10 sec street car a 13 second car is a dog (woof woof) haha. I got out and talked with him for a while and checked the car out. I like the car overall though it's on the small side. He loved it and had not a single compliant. Now I hope he dont find me when I am driving the Legacy this summer............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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