Rommel Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I ordered the STi springs for my GT wagon and I was wondering how difficult it is to replace the rears (getting access to the top hats). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Putting mine on this Friday. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autophysics Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 It seems like many are putting stiffer springs on the Legacy but the stock struts/shocks are still being used. This could make the car underdamped, which is worse than being overdamped. Stiffer shocks help with crispness of steering, transient response to changes in direction, and prevent floating/bobbing on the freeway, but won't help with lean in long high speed sweepers. A stiffer spring needs stiffer shocks to handle the stronger rebound. If I couldn't replace both springs and shocks to match, then I'd rather use stiffer shocks with the stock springs than the other way around - am I missing something? Is the Legacy so overdamped stock that the stiffer springs make it just right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 [quote name='Autophysics']If I couldn't replace both springs and shocks to match, then I'd rather use stiffer shocks with the stock springs than the other way around - am I missing something? Is the Legacy so overdamped stock that the stiffer springs make it just right?[/QUOTE] That's the question that many are wondering about, actually. The stock GT has an overdamped ride quality, which is preferable to being oversprung, indeed. But the question, given that the STi springs were engineered for the Legacy GT's stock struts in the JDM, is how does that correlate to the USDM cars? STi owners report ride improvements with the addition of the pink springs, because the somewhat firmer spring brings the strut and spring into better compliance. Is this true with the LGT, as well? Dunno. Initial reports indicate that it might be. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 A friend of mine installed a STi springs on stock struts and he told me that the handling is a lot better, it eliminated the squat and dive of the car and also a little bit of body roll and still comfy for daily commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I removed the interior trim today to see how difficult it was going to be. It wasn't - just a few pieces on the trunk floor and you've got access to the top hats. Not great access mind you - the nuts are stil recessed a little bit, but not enough to necessitate removal of the side trim. My only concern is getting the proper torque on the nuts when reinstalling the spring/shock units. More info tomorrow nite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 thanks for the info waiting for anymore updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Well, I have an update and it's not good. I managed to get the rears on, but came up short on the fronts. First, I'm VERY surprised that no one on any of the posts mentioned the fact that removing the strut nut requires a fairly specialized tool. I have crow's feet in my tool box but they won't work on the LGT because the nut is recessed. I was able to get the rear nuts off by using a socket clamped with a Vise-Grip. Of course, with this setup I had to guess at the torque when I reinstalled the nuts. I don't know if the front nuts were tighter than the rears or I just got tired but I couldn't get them off. It looks like there is a tool available (besides the OEM part) that is designed for this but I haven't been able to find the right size yet. Another potential problem is compressing the front springs. The compressor I had needed to be installed on adjacent coils and it BARELY compressed the spring enough to loosen it up. Also, because of the size and shape of the upper and lower perches the compressor attached at a weird angle, making it difficult to get a socket wrench, drill or impact wrench on it. Finally, I made the mistake of trying to operate my torque wrench out of its specified range and ended up breaking it. On the bright side I was able to break the lower rear shock bolts loose without an impact wrench, breaker bar or torch. I used a broken Craftsman torque wrench (which broke under normal use, not abuse) combined with a floor jack to produce the required torque. Once I replace/repair my torque wrench, buy a new one with the proper range and find the right shock nut tool I'll tackle the fronts agains. Bowed but unbroken, bruised and battered but undaunted and unfazed, I will put Pinks on every corner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 what will be your alignment settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Oh yeah, you actually wanted some USEFUL information. Here goes: 1) Getting to the rear top hats is easy. Remove the storage area cover and the two side pieces. They just snap out and back in. Next, pull up the rear seat carpet extension - it just press fits into the piece below. Finally, pop up the 3 pegs that hold that piece to the floor, remove it, and there they are. Kinda weird they're not in the wheel wells huh? You'll need a 14mm crow's foot to torque the nuts. The toughest one is the right rear - it's a little ways behind the rear interior trim. 2) The manual says to use the car's jack to line up the control arm with the shock on reinstall. I thought it was easier to just jack up the shock and hammer the jack longitudinally to line up the holes. 3) Have fun torquing the lower bolt:) Don't bother with a 3/8" wrench, even if it is in range. Get a 1/2" drive wrench that's at least 2' long. 4) Based on my initial measurement the drop in the rear looks to be in the ballpark of the expected 15mm. The car looks kinda dorky now with the rear dropped and the front at normal height. Also, I was scraping the exhaust tips on my driveway before, now I really whack them good. Lowering the front will help a little but I also need to rehang the exhaust, especially if I put an aftermarket unit on. 5) The ride is definitely firmer in the rear. Interestingly, the stiffer springs reduce the oscillation when I drive over neighborhood speed bumps. I haven't had a chance to test them at higher speeds yet but I suspect the car will be quite lively with the rear stiffened up. That's it for now. I don't expect to be prepared and able to install the fronts for a week or two. I'll update with pics when I finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='WRX_LGT']what will be your alignment settings?[/QUOTE] After I finish the install I'll probably just get it aligned to factory specs, maybe get them to shoot for max negative camber in the front. It doesn't look like there is any camber adjustment in the rear. Can anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 on my WRX you can get camber bolts for the rears, not sure if it will work with the Legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='hal9e3']I'll update with pics when I finish.[/QUOTE] That was useful and informative. Thanks and keep us posted. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='hal9e3']After I finish the install I'll probably just get it aligned to factory specs, maybe get them to shoot for max negative camber in the front. It doesn't look like there is any camber adjustment in the rear. Can anyone confirm this?[/QUOTE] Rear camber is not adjustable. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']That's the question that many are wondering about, actually. The stock GT has an overdamped ride quality, which is preferable to being oversprung, indeed. But the question, given that the STi springs were engineered for the Legacy GT's stock struts in the JDM, is how does that correlate to the USDM cars? STi owners report ride improvements with the addition of the pink springs, because the somewhat firmer spring brings the strut and spring into better compliance. Is this true with the LGT, as well? Dunno. Initial reports indicate that it might be. Kevin[/QUOTE] You keep bringing this up, and I keep telling you...the reason for this is because the USDM STi gets the exact same struts as on the JDM car...this is NOT the case for the Legacy GT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']You keep bringing this up, and I keep telling you...the reason for this is because the USDM STi gets the exact same struts as on the JDM car...this is NOT the case for the Legacy GT...[/QUOTE] I keep bringing it up because people keep asking the "Why" question, as in "Why the pink springs?" You could save yourself the bother by not responding. Further, we know that the USDM doesn't have a Bilstein option. We don't know for a fact, though people are looking into it, that the USDM GT doesn't have the same struts as the JDM non-Bilstein GT. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']I keep bringing it up because people keep asking the "Why" question, as in "Why the pink springs?" You could save yourself the bother by not responding. Further, we know that the USDM doesn't have a Bilstein option. We don't know for a fact, though people are looking into it, that the USDM GT doesn't have the same struts as the JDM non-Bilstein GT. Kevin[/QUOTE] I'll save myself from nothing, thank you sir. The fact is, this is an invalid comparison. This is more like a "what stock springs for my WRX" in which you then answer, SPT pink/Prodrive...etc. Kevin, which non-blisten GT do you speak of? The GT in japan gets Blistens. Furthermore, the JDM pinks are designed for the JDM Blistens...which leaves me one question....are the STi pinks stiffer than the facotry spec-b springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 [quote name='Drift Monkey']I'll save myself from nothing, thank you sir. The fact is, this is an invalid comparison. This is more like a "what stock springs for my WRX" in which you then answer, SPT pink/Prodrive...etc. Kevin, which non-blisten GT do you speak of? The GT in japan gets Blistens. Furthermore, the JDM pinks are designed for the JDM Blistens...which leaves me one question....are the STi pinks stiffer than the facotry spec-b springs?[/QUOTE] The pink (actually, cherry blossom red) STi parts are "aftermarket," like Prodrive springs for the WRX. While they do have OE, stock-like fit, finish and operational quality, they are aftermarket parts. With said STi springs, there are part numbers for the GT, as well as the GT-B (Bilstein). There are also different part numbers for wagon and sedan (rear, because of the wagon's stiffer rear springs), as well as manual and automatic. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']The pink (actually, cherry blossom red) STi parts are "aftermarket," like Prodrive springs for the WRX. While they do have OE, stock-like fit, finish and operational quality, they are aftermarket parts. With said STi springs, there are part numbers for the GT, as well as the GT-B (Bilstein). There are also different part numbers for wagon and sedan (rear, because of the wagon's stiffer rear springs), as well as manual and automatic. Kevin[/QUOTE] Thanks for re-stating what everyone already knows. Um...no Kev. The JDM GT-B and GT have the same blistens with different springs I believe. Show me an example of the different part numbers for the GT and GT-B... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 DM, I believe this is the post that Kevin is referring to and it deals with the STI Pink Springs for both the BL/BP JDM GT AND GT-B. This link, [url="http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4247&page=9&pp=10&highlight=pink+part"]http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4247&page=9&pp=10&highlight=pink+part[/url], Xenonk's post in the middle of the page: "STi grouped the Springs into 3 different sets of STi springs for the BL/BP chassis. BL is sedan, BP is wagon. The Front Springs have 3 part numbers for each of the following: ST20x3xx1000 for BL GT Auto; BP GT Auto ST20x3xx1010 for BL GT Manual, BL GT-B Auto; BP GT Manual, GT-B Manual/Auto ST20x3xx1020 for BL GT-B Manual The Rear Springs have 3 parts for each of the following: ST20x8xx1000 for BL GT Auto/Manual; GT-B Auto/Manual ST20x8xx1010 for BP GT Auto/Manual ST20x8xx1020 for BP GT-B Auto/Manual" SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='hal9e3']...Removing the strut nut requires a fairly specialized tool. I have crow's feet in my tool box but they won't work on the LGT because the nut is recessed. I was able to get the rear nuts off by using a socket clamped with a Vise-Grip. Of course, with this setup I had to guess at the torque when I reinstalled the nuts. I don't know if the front nuts were tighter than the rears or I just got tired but I couldn't get them off. It looks like there is a tool available (besides the OEM part) that is designed for this but I haven't been able to find the right size yet.[/QUOTE] I'm having a difficult time finding the tool I need to do this. O'Reilly's has the right tool, which looks like a deep socket that's hexagonal on the outside rather than round, but it's the wrong size (15mm vs. the necessary 17mm). Also, the one local Subaru dealer I tried said they didn't sell the OEM tool. Does anyone know where I can find a tool to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGreb Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 [quote name='hal9e3']I'm having a difficult time finding the tool I need to do this. O'Reilly's has the right tool, which looks like a deep socket that's hexagonal on the outside rather than round, but it's the wrong size (15mm vs. the necessary 17mm). Also, the one local Subaru dealer I tried said they didn't sell the OEM tool. Does anyone know where I can find a tool to do this?[/QUOTE] You're talking about the nut at the top of the strut, right? I had 3 of 4 top strut nuts come off easily with a 17mm impact socket. 1 was a bit tricky and required using an allen wrench (6mm?) to turn the strut while I held the nut in place with a 17mm open wrench. You can't get the wrench on flat, but you can attack it from an angle and provide enough pressure to keep it from moving as you turn the strut. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Mine were WAY too tight to turn with an off-angle wrench. Also, how did you torque them to spec on reinstall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGreb Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 You're not turning the nut with the wrench; you're turning the strut rod instead with the allen key. I retightened the fronts lightly on assembly and then re-torqued once they were on the car. At this point the strut is compressed and you can use a regular socket and torque wrench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad21 Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 If it can't be fixed with duct tape and/or a hammer... hell, I don't even change my own oil anymore. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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