building harness bar on rear deck

[CombatCQB]

I have this idea to build a harness bar on the rear deck. It will attach to the rear deck replacing the three child seat anchor points. The bar will be welded in place but low enough to not block rear view. The only issue is finding a 4 point harness with a shoulder belt that will reach all the way back.

 

The bar can also mount cameras and even still serve as child seat anchors. Anyone see fesability issues?

[Xenonk]

i hope you're not wearing for daily driving..

[robinlsb]

i hope you're not wearing for daily driving..

 

+100---- 4 points + no roll bar/cage = death trap!!!!

[axis008]

A roll cage is also a death trap for daily drivers. Driver's side T-bone and you are screwwwwwwwed.

[Scotty]

A roll cage is also a death trap for daily drivers. Driver's side T-bone and you are screwwwwwwwed.

 

If it is a properly designed roll cage, like built to FIA specifications, you are probably better off than in a regular car. But FIA specs also loses the rear seats and you have to climb over a bunch of tubes before you can get in the car.

[CombatCQB]

No this is only for Solo2 and track. But I'm not big on the typical harness bars and since nothing sits on the rear deck anyway. Even if I don't ever use it for a 4 point (say I just use a cglock for autox) it can still be used for camera mounts . I guess the point I'm trying to confirm is that a harness bar welded to the rear deck will be no less secure than a typical bolt in harness bar while not sacrificing the rear seats.

 

I think the death trap idea needs to be put into context. All cars are death traps, a full cage only means the crash has to be more violent for it to be a death trap. I'm using a harness to secure myself better during autox so I don't even consider it a safety device. There is no illusion that the car can still get crushed the same way as before. The only margin of safety come from the chance that I'll be in better control if my torso isn't being thrown around like a sack of potatos.

[axis008]

If it is a properly designed roll cage, like built to FIA specifications, you are probably better off than in a regular car. But FIA specs also loses the rear seats and you have to climb over a bunch of tubes before you can get in the car.

Oh yeah true huh. I guess all I was thinking about was just the roll cages that people get for car shows like Cusco. A few of my friends have them and they were talking about removing them for the sake of their safety (ironic).

[robinlsb]

I think the death trap idea needs to be put into context. The problem is that a 4 point will hold you upright, no matter what. In a roll over,sans roll bar, the roof can come down on your head and crush your spine! So maybe ok for autox, not ok for street.

[CombatCQB]

I think the death trap idea needs to be put into context. The problem is that a 4 point will hold you upright, no matter what. In a roll over,sans roll bar, the roof can come down on your head and crush your spine! So maybe ok for autox, not ok for street.

 

I agree. 4point-rollbar+rollover=death trap on street. I'll even apply that to autox since the small chance is still there that a rollover with enough energy can occur. Although it might be implied, I just felt the death trap idea needed a context since the risk in autox is controlled enough for me to accept a harness bar.

 

You did get me to rethink lapping with harness since the rollover risk is higher just by driver error alone and much higher energy. Again, risk that has to be controlled.

[Scotty]

If you need a quick 3 point harness, just slide your seat back an inch or two, give a tug on the belt to lock the inertial reels, then slide your seat forward.

[icelatte]

If you need a quick 3 point harness, just slide your seat back an inch or two, give a tug on the belt to lock the inertial reels, then slide your seat forward.

 

I've been doing this for track days but I've been thinking: would this be as dangerous as a harness in a rollover since you're locked in the upright position?

[Scotty]

You are not restrain to lean over to the center of the car. In any accident situation, the inertial reels will lock the belts anyways.

[robinlsb]

I've been doing this for track days but I've been thinking: would this be as dangerous as a harness in a rollover since you're locked in the upright position?

 

No, you have someplace to go. The belts(and you!) will stretch. You might consider a better seat. Another possibility is to put your left arm in the 7-8 o'clock position. Use the door (and the door handle tray) as a brace in RH turns and the shoulder belt in lefts. In effect, the left hand is a braced clamp and the right hand is for movement.. Takes practice and won't work for really tight corners. But those are at slow speed in any case.

 

The above always helps eliminate "body english" in turns. You know, where you lean your head and body into a turn.

[CombatCQB]

If you need a quick 3 point harness, just slide your seat back an inch or two, give a tug on the belt to lock the inertial reels, then slide your seat forward.

 

That's what I used to do. It works well as a lap belt but my upper body was still not secure. I'm one of those tall skinny guys that the seats aren't designed for. I've tried a 3 point (with 2 shoulder straps ending in a Y connecter) anchored to the lower child seat anchors. But the slight off center and 45 degree angle is not a good solution. Hence the harness bar idea.

[Scotty]

The problem with a harness bar on the rear shelf is you won't get the proper setup for the belt. If you ever installed 5 & 6 point harnesses, you have to read the directions and build the roll cage accordingly. Most organized motor racing requiring 5 point harnesses, will have rules on roll cage design that is very similar to the harness manufacturer. Without setting the harness up properly, they can do more harm than good.

 

You won't find a harness that will attach all the way to the rear because they don't intend for you to do that. The mount has to be close enough so you can't slide around.

[Mr.EMan]

You won't find a harness that will attach all the way to the rear because they don't intend for you to do that. The mount has to be close enough so you can't slide around.

 

This is a good point. The problem isn't the location of the harness bar, but that there is nothing that keeps the harness located around the shoulder area.

 

One possibility is to mount to the seat belt anchors at the back seat, and use the harness bar to locate the belts just behind the front seat. That's tricky because ideally, it would be between the B- and C-pillars.

 

(I just checked my '05 LGT wagon, and the belts could fit just under the headrest of the front seat.)

 

The idea of using a harness bar is to make the belts go to the back of the car straight from your shoulders. If the belt goes from your shoulders down to the seat belt anchors in the back, for example, the belt wants to pull your shoulders down into your body. That's not a good angle.

 

I am investigating putting one in a wagon. First step is to find a good mounting location for a bar. I'll have to take a close look one weekend.

 

A three-point belt on the track is almost useless. You slide around so much, and spend so much effort keeping yourself in the seat that you can't drive at your best. I generally use a 5-point belt, but I think a 4-point would work just as well.

[Xenonk]

you can build harness guides on the harness bar (my harness bar from my WRX had them).

 

as for a cage for daily driving on the street, it's ok if you have padding for the overhead bars. Normally a half-cage is fine since all the bars are behind you.. a side impact would be no different than a stock car.

[CombatCQB]

I've also see installation instructions that crosses the two shoulder belts before attaching to rear seat/deck. The belts form an X over the rear seats. This makes sense to me since it further prevents the shoulder belts from slipping off to the side. As long as the angle of the X isn't so exaggerated that it starts cutting into your neck.

[robinlsb]

As long as the angle of the X isn't so exaggerated that it starts cutting into your neck.:eek::eek:

 

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