weight for new Legacy GT?

[Dr. Zevil]

I sure hope that the sedan will be 3200 lbs. For some reason 3400 lbs sounds like a LOT. I still don't think thier will be any question as to whether or not this car will quench our need for insane acceleration. 0-60 sub 5's in a wagon is going to make a lot of boy-racers upset :D

[SUBE555]

Not really Zevil, I suspect something like Cobb's Stage 2 for the WRX (AccessPort & Turbo-Back) shouldn't have any problem pushing the car into that caregory with a Legacy setup. Should be in STi power levels without an issue.

[Dr. Zevil]

So you are saying that I shouldn't be worried about that kind of weight? Just misunderstood what you said. I just want to car to be as nimble as my WRX. Although much like the rest of the american market, I use more acceleration than handling.

[SteVTEC]

100 lbs is about a tenth in the 1/4 mile. I wouldn't be too concerned about it, especially on the turbo models. It's so ridiculously cheap and easy to crank up the power a bit both safely and reliably. If I was buying a naturally aspirated car then weight would be more of a concern since it's a lot more difficult to gain power all-motor.

[SteVTEC]

[url]http://www.autosite.com/new/Datashts/Techspec/3476.asp[/url] A Forester 2.5XS weighs 3095 lbs (wet) vs the 2.5XT weighing 3210 lbs, or a difference of 115 lbs between 2.5L NA and 2.5L Turbo. Since the Legacy is larger, I think 3300 lbs for a 2.5GT manual base sedan is probably pretty accurate. I think the 2.5i (NA) manual will probably weigh about 3200 lbs. EDIT: It's easy to get caught up in manufacturer "weight reduction" marketing stuff. Acura claimed that the new TL had a "significantly lighter frame/chassis" so that would lead you to believe that the new TL is lighter than the old one (which was rather heavy). But they added all sorts of junk to it (Bluetooth, Dolby 5.1 DVD audio, geez) that negated all of the chassis weight savings. And then some. The new TL is actually 65 lbs heavier than the old one, yet they still try to mislead you in their press release. :roll: Still, the weight isn't that bad as it looks right now, and there's a ton more power now, and modding potential also. :)

[gtguy]

[quote name='Dr. Zevil']So you are saying that I shouldn't be worried about that kind of weight? Just misunderstood what you said. I just want to car to be as nimble as my WRX. Although much like the rest of the american market, I use more acceleration than handling.[/quote] Without some work, your Legacy isn't going to be as nimble as a WRX. It's longer and wider, for one. For another, if I know Subaru of America, the Legacy won't have as rigid a suspension as the current WRX, which has a rather nice stock suspension, I must say. It should certainly handle as well, but nimbleness is a function of size and weight. A larger, light car can still not be as nimble as a shorter car of roughly the same weight. Kevin

[GBY]

Indeed, you’ll be able to feel those extra 5 inches in the wheelbase.

[Dr. Zevil]

[quote name='gtguy'][quote name='Dr. Zevil']So you are saying that I shouldn't be worried about that kind of weight? Just misunderstood what you said. I just want to car to be as nimble as my WRX. Although much like the rest of the american market, I use more acceleration than handling.[/quote] Without some work, your Legacy isn't going to be as nimble as a WRX. It's longer and wider, for one. For another, if I know Subaru of America, the Legacy won't have as rigid a suspension as the current WRX, which has a rather nice stock suspension, I must say. It should certainly handle as well, but nimbleness is a function of size and weight. A larger, light car can still not be as nimble as a shorter car of roughly the same weight. Kevin[/quote] Perhaps nimble wasn't the correct word. I meant more along the lines of good handling. Obviously the car is going to be much bigger, but I also don't want to feel like the car is driving me instead of me driving it.

[SUBE555]

Nimble can refer to it being well managable too. ;) If the steering rack is just right and some other things are set up right, no reason it can't be well handled. You're right Kevin that extra length, width doesn't necessarily help in certain instances, but it can help keep wheels from lifting more in tighter instances where a short wheelbase car can present wheel lift (not good for drivetrain or suspension.) Personally, I don't mind that little extra length. Especially if the car is going higher speeds in some places, like cruising or on a road course, the extra length and width can help the car be more stable. :)

[Dr. Zevil]

I always felt like my WRX was a little too short.. a little too hoppy. I look farward to driving something a little bigger.

[gtguy]

The GT, with its quick steering rack, 17-inch wheels and well-sorted suspension, will indeed handle well. No question. Kevin

[ha-evolution]

[quote name='gtguy']The GT, with its quick steering rack, 17-inch wheels and well-sorted suspension, will indeed handle well. No question. Kevin[/quote] Methinks you will be proven correct. And the newer chassis should be more rigid - no?

[SUBE555]

Absolutely. Think BD/BG weight I gather, but with mo POWA :D and stiffer chassis, okay, keep going, better brakes/wheels/suspension/interior/steering..... :lol: Okay, it's a whole new car! :D I'm really looking forward to seeing how the new ones handle and go. :) So those specs anyday now would be most excellent. :roll:

[SteVTEC]

So do you really think we'll see full specs including weight by the end of this week? If so I'll hold off on my performance projections. If not I'll go ahead and post them.

[SUBE555]

I'd say take a hold on them til Friday about 4pm. If they're not up by then, they won't be up til sometime next week at the earliest.

[SteVTEC]

Hmm...I'll wait then.

[ha-evolution]

Oh sure, kill us with suspense why don't ya? :)

[SteVTEC]

well here's a sneak peak. Dunno if you guys have ever heard of or used CarTest software before ([url]www.cartestsoftware.com[/url]) but I have it, have been using it for 2 years now, and it's a very sophisticated and accurate piece of software. Accuracy is limited only by how well the parameters you feed it reflect the real-world car and conditions. Using dynos and adjusting traction coefficients to match 60' times, I've been able to model some guys track runs based on their timeslips to better than a tenth of a second all the way down the track - sometime just a few hundredths difference. This is a very geeky hobby of mine, and I like the challenge of trying to figure out how cars will run before mags start releasing data, and before people start running them at the tracks themselves. I see them as puzzles. Freaky, I know. :P Anyhoo, I created models for the new Legacys (various trims and powertrain) and.... 2.5GT/auto should be able to do mid-14's @ 93-94 with a 2.5-3.0k brake torque and full boost off the line (1.9 60') 2.5GT/man should be able to do 14-flat @ 95-96 or possibly even a 13.9 (depends on weight data) with a clutch dump. With a slip-out, probably not much if any quicker than an auto, but still a 96 trap. 3.0R/auto should be able to do low-15's @ 89-90, but will depend on what the max stall of the converter is, and again also weight. I don't think anybody going for the 2.5NA would really care about performance that much so I haven't looked at those yet. But I can if somebody wants me to. This assumes first and most importantly that the [b]factory rated power specs are accurate[/b] (i.e. no under-rating). 160 lb driver, 30lbs of fuel, and "normal" conditions at a "normal" track. If you have a really quick track nearby or you happen to run when it's 30F out you could do better. But if you have a slower track or run when its 110F out you'll do worse obviously. So these would be "typical" times. I'll post full details and 0-60 guesstimates also when I get finalized weight data. By the way, does anybody know how much the 17's weigh (wheel + tire combination weight)? I hope they're not heavy suckers, because it does make a difference. I was over at Acura-TSX.com before that car was coming out and I was predicting 0-60 in 6.8s and a 15.2 @ 91-92. But I didn't realize that the 17" package on that mofo was 50 pounds per corner! eek! Taking that into account it dropped the calculated times to 0-60 in 7.0-7.2, and 15.5 @ 89-90 (6MT). Sure enough that's what the mags got and what a few actual owners have gotten. I haven't taken wheel/tire weight into consideration here yet, so if these are heavier 17's they could slow the cars down a few tenths from these initial estimates. What's the wheel/tire size on the JDM 2.0R that ran the 0-62 in 5.77s? I can make a model for that and match it, and then flip the specs over to the US models and that would be pretty accurate. Steve

[coolbluelb]

Subaru New Zealand lists the Legacy 2.5i weight at 1365 kilos. This translates to 3003 pounds (is this right???). This weight includes 17" wheels! Interesting, the NZ site lists the weight of the Forester XS Ltd. as also being 1365 kilos. The XT Ltd. tips the scales at 1425 (3135 lbs, or 132 lbs heavier than the non-turbo XS). Until we have apples to compare to apples, I think we are safe comparing oranges to tangerines... :idea:

[SteVTEC]

I think those weights are dry weight, i.e. without fluid, as Paul stated. US curb weights are wet weight, I believe, with all fluids and a full tank of gas.

[SUBE555]

Definitely apples to oranges if wet to dry comparison. Too bad there isn't an international standard for comparisons for all automakers. That would be too easy tough I'm sure.

[ha-evolution]

Your performance numbers look reasonable - good job. I forgot all about cartest. What a blast from the past!

[Dr. Zevil]

I think those numbers look a little slow.. maybe by a couple tenths here and there. If the Forester XT can do it quicker, then I am betting that the GT can too.

[SteVTEC]

well the Forester XT is probably lighter, I "think" it's very under-rated, and also has crazy 4.44 gears. Looks like the Legacy will be heavier by 100-200 lbs, and it'll also have larger/heavier 17" wheels and tires to spin up (more inertial rotating mass) on top of the taller gearing (4.11 on the manual, 3.27 on the auto). I haven't seen a dyno, but I bet the FXT has the same engine as the Legacy, just under-rated a lot. The FXT may end up being a bit quicker than a LGT, but the Legacy will definitely be a better handler, much more luxurious and refined, in addition to having more space. ;)

[SUBE555]

The FXT actually comes out only just shorter in ratios when tires are figured in (the new Legacy tire will have a tire Dia of about 24.8" while the FXT is around 26" IIRC.) Looking up weight on those Yoko's now.