GTLTDGOLFR Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm looking for new tires. I'm a data person generally. I'm wondering what the gang here's experience is with the performance ratings Tire Rack gives to similar tires in price and category from different manufactuers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yep. Why not? the thing to be leary of is the user reviews. Read the higher mileage ones, and in the comments where peeps are whining about this or that, try to figure out if the writer is some loser who cant be bothered to check his tire pressures, alignment, or what have you and complains about wear or noise. Also ignore peeps who cant understand why their summer only tires suck in snow (these peeps should have their licenses revoked imo ), or expect 80k wear out of a summer tire (which should get/is rated for 30k) I think the tirerack tests are great - they almost always test against the eagle RSA, and their numbers are pretty consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 just dont read the user's ratings. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutBucket Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Tire reviews are very tricky because honestly, who really has tons of experience with different tires on the same car? I've had 3 sets on the Leggy but have had different suspension setups. How can I really compare? When it comes down to it, tires are all about personal preference. Just because Tire Rack says one tire is better than another based on performance, you don't necessarily have their car or their driving style. Its just too bad that there's no real way to "test" tires. Its definitely a trial-by-fire type of deal which kinda stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Tire reviews are very tricky because honestly, who really has tons of experience with different tires on the same car? I've had 3 sets on the Leggy but have had different suspension setups. How can I really compare? When it comes down to it, tires are all about personal preference. Just because Tire Rack says one tire is better than another based on performance, you don't necessarily have their car or their driving style. Its just too bad that there's no real way to "test" tires. Its definitely a trial-by-fire type of deal which kinda stinks. The tire rack testers do. Have you read their tests? They run only two or three cars, usually 3 series. They compare tires back to back. Go check out the tests before you diss them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Click Here everyday:redface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutBucket Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was talking about the user data, not the Tire Rack reviewers;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Tire Rack User Reviews = semi-worthless. They're often a case of actual-vs-expectations rather than an absolute judgment. Also, the ratings for a particular tire cover ALL the sizes and possibly all the speed rating and OEM-specific variants as well, further diluting their usefulness. +1 to the value of their tests. Controlled conditions, objective numbers, consistent size and test bench (AKA car). Of course it's always a 3 Series BMW, but that's better than a Kia right? For more info C&D published a comprehensive tire test in their 12/2005 issue using a size very close to our OEM, 225/45-17. You can read it here. One caveat - they did this test with TR's help so it doesn't include tires TR doesn't carry, such as Falken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was talking about the user data, not the Tire Rack reviewers;) +1 then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 One piece of data that is not refutable is: Would you buy it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 i'll say one thing the Tire Rack reviews where pretty much on the money for the Goodyear F1's i bought. you can take the user reviews for what they're worth people like you or me doing the testing, now all bets are off. bosco Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal9e3 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 One piece of data that is not refutable is: Would you buy it again? This only proves that (level of satisfaction) >= (expectations). If a repeat customer had the opportunity to evaluate a 'better' product they might very well cease to be a repeat customer. It just depends on how much data you have to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutBucket Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 One piece of data that is not refutable is: Would you buy it again? I'm sure some people would buy re-92's again if it wasn't for the price;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLTDGOLFR Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yep. Why not? the thing to be leary of is the user reviews. ...I think the tirerack tests are great - they almost always test against the eagle RSA, and their numbers are pretty consistent. I am referring to the TR tests, not the user reviews. My question comes from looking at the data, over and over, I'm not sure why the General summer tire isn't used by a whole bunch of enthusiasts as forums like looking at price, performance,etc. It's scores are unbelievable, and it's under $80 a tire in 18" http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NutBucket Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 User preference? Why did I choose to buy Yokohama AVS Sports instead of a Azeni RT-615? Both are excellent tires and about the same price. Its probably just my dumb preference for Yokohama more than anything else. Also, many people relate cheap to not good. I don't think General when I think of a high quality performance tire. BTW, you're quoting user reviews, not the TR conducted tests;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTLTDGOLFR Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 BTW, you're quoting user reviews, not the TR conducted tests;) You are correct. My error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 One big problem with tire reviews and tire testing is that the tires are evaluated when new. However you have to live with these tires for at least 20k mi, some people want 50 k out of high performance tires. My experiences with kumho have led me to never want to buy them, or any cheap tire like the general, again. I'm sticking with b'stone, conti, dunlop, michelin, toyo, and avon (my "cheap" option when I have an old car). Crappy tires, even those with good grip, (and crappy doesn't mean cheap ) get hard quicker, losing that good grip, they can have roundness problems where they become out of round, they can develop hard spots (my re 92s did after 9k mi according to my tire guy), and can develop loudness that was completely missing when new. You take a chance every time you buy a tire. I want 20 to 25k GREAT miles out of my tires. If I get more, great but I want that tire to be lovely while on my wheels. If you have to rebalance a set of tires more than once on your rims, thats $50 or so, say 25 per tire per balance, and if you have crappy tires like I have had then you end up not saving any money. Worse, because you can rebalance, and then decide you cant live with the tire in a nother 5 k mi, or the rebalancing is no longer possible because of hard spots. So, I am sticking with manufacturers with excellent track records, and preferably tires with excellent track records too. General is not on my list. But that doesn't mean that these aren't GREAT tires. I'm simply not willing to risk my money on them. I think a lot of people agree with me (not peeps who can barely afford a car and have to save money at every opportunity) I am referring to the TR tests, not the user reviews. My question comes from looking at the data, over and over, I'm not sure why the General summer tire isn't used by a whole bunch of enthusiasts as forums like looking at price, performance,etc. It's scores are unbelievable, and it's under $80 a tire in 18" http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwinn Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Whenever reading user reviews, you need to realize the context of the reviewer's experience. In the TR reviews, this is particularly difficult since you don't know if the person is a good judge of the tire or not. If the previous tire was a touring tire, and it was replaced with a high performance one, then there will usually be more noise, but better handling. The typical "point A-to-B" driver would hate these tires, because they are noisier... but that's because they never push the limits and see the benefits. Now, I know you will think that the reviewer will tell you if they are an "Enthusiastic driver" or whatnot... my mother thinks she is "Enthusiastic"... she's not... she just drives fast (who doesn't)... but she would be the first to complain about the noise, and never notice the handling. Another issue: When comparing an old tire with a new one, I am sure the new one will win out... but that's compared to what? An old worn tire. So, yes, the new tire will be better... mostly because it's new. Take an example of the whole debate on sparkplugs... people often swear that their brand-new split-fires or other similar plugs got them so much more performance... but it's likely that it's only because its new. The placebo effect is a wonderful thing. In general, you should certainly take these reviews with a grain of salt. If you insist on using them, then be careful to read through them. For example, it's likely that a Vette driver is going to be an "enthusiastic" driver. Still, that's not a guarantee. When reading reviews, I usually skip all the glowing ones, and look at the bad ones only. Why? I want to see why that person disliked the tire. This way, I can see if it's a problem for me or not. In addition, you can get an idea of whether the person is competent (and providing a good review) or just complaining with no knowledge whatsoever (because it was a bad price, or there was some shipping issue, blah blah...) Secondly skip the short, one-line reviews... they are often uninformative. Once you get a picture of the dissenters, you will have a better idea of if the product is too advanced for the lay person (ie, a A-to-B person, in this case) or if the complaint is legitimate. At least, that's how I do it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Yes, with the exception of their winter tire tests, which are done at such a low speed that differences between tires are minimal. Compared to the winter tire testing done by some of the Scandinavian magazines, the TR winter tests are amateurish. The same goes for winter tire tests from Consumer Reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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