What is the best radar on the market?

[Scotty]

Passive lidar jammers can work. I've been talking with our resident electrical engineer about building one, though it is illegal in CA to have lidar jammers. He has a few ideas that does work, but problem is getting a lidar to test with. There's also active systems that CAN destroy the lidar gun...hehe. Unfortunately, he's not allowed to divulge that information. Something along the lines of if he tells me, then he would have to kill me. Oh his background is in designing electronic countermeasures with the military.

[TSiWRX]

^ I think that brother praedet might be able to help us on those counts, too, but he also might need to kill us (or have us killed - since I don't think that professors do that kind of dirty work, themselves ).

 

No, seriously -

 

I don't doubt those possibilities at all.

 

After all, when even a passively "protected" full-sized pickup such as RacerX's Tundra can only be picked up by LIDAR at sub-350 ft. distances and when a fellow enthusiast's Chevy Cavalier, similarly prepped, is essentially LIDAR-undetectable (and just look at the "natural LIDAR-stealth of the C5-generation Corvette), I have no doubt that true "jamming" can be achieved with proper technical prep./engineering.

 

----

 

I was actually referring to RADAR jammers (as mentioned in a few posts down from that one.) I think you misread my post as I misread the original post. *shrug*

 

No no, don't get me wrong - I understood where your initial mistake was made, as well as your clarification thereof (post 61); but in post 54, you did say:

 

Take it with a grain of salt...

 

^ And as such, I may have mistakenly thought that this implied, since you also cited that the reference you found came from a laser "jammer" (a word which you, yourself, put in quotes) site. I couldn't quite determine what you'd meant with the quotes....but in retrospect, you more than likely were trying to convey the fact that VEIL was not, itself, a jamming device, but rather, a passive protective measure.

 

I think that it was just a mis-understanding/mis-read all the way around , but I hope that my basic run-down of current active laser jammer capabilities will both further help your understanding in this area - or, if you're already well-versed, instead help someone else who might happen on this thread.

 

I don't have any experience with laser jamming, but was looking into the Laser Pro Park and Blinder systems. I think someone was trying to get a group buy going on the LPP system.

 

Yes, brother PGT did try to organize one for the LPP, and you'll see my own contributions there, in terms of trying to spark some interest in this product in our community (although, to be absolutely and perfectly honest, I have no vested interest in either this product or any other, and am just an independent hobbyist in this area). Just search "LPP," and you'll find the thread.

 

Currently, I can only recommend the LPP, AL (AntiLaser), or the LI (Laser Interceptor).

 

The *current* generation of Blinder products - the M45/35/25 - what I term the "-5 suffix" units, have been cast under close independent hobbyist/enthusiast scrutiny due to some initial concerns about its performance. This close examination in-turn revealed more extensive problems with this current generation of the Blinder, which, in many independent testing scenarios, failed to provide protection that was, in-comparison, even at the level that was offered by the then-outgoing and now-defunct M40/30/20 system.

 

You'll find a summary of this in post #5 of the following thread:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80586&highlight=blinder

 

As I have said there, although I have been a proponent of Blinder products in the past, I find myself, due to these performance concerns, unable to make the same case for Blinder products as I have been able to in the past. Currently, I simply cannot recommend them.

 

If you are considering a Blinder M45/35/25, I would highly recommend that you thoroughly research the issues concerning these new units before you make your purchase.

[08leggy]

V1 has saved me hundreds of dollars in tickets I avoided.

[SuBK]

V1 definitely!! not that the 8500 is not good or anything but the V1 appears to be the best of the best... let the test results sell you.. check out the charts and graphs that were resulted from the experiments..

 

http://www.guysoflidar.com/august-2007/radar-detector-test.html

 

http://www.guysoflidar.com/july-2007/off-axis-radar-detector-test.html

[ClimberDHexMods]

I just got a ticket for "73 in a 40" in MA. My Passport 8500 x50 blew up LASER, but it was already too late. $330. I'm buying a jammer.

[06jax2.5se]

Bel STi radar detector. The ONLY radar detector that is invisable to radar detector detectors! That and it is a BAMF! love it! It has fantastic range...so far that it will pick up a cop poping another car like a mile away so you know that they are doing it!!

[TSiWRX]

^ Should amend to: "the only stand-alone detector that is invisible to all current RDDs."

 

[gfxdave99]

I just got a ticket for "73 in a 40" in MA. My Passport 8500 x50 blew up LASER, but it was already too late. $330. I'm buying a jammer.

 

Lets go back to... WTF were you doing 73 in a 40?

[ClimberDHexMods]

Lets go back to... WTF were you doing 73 in a 40?

 

I'm not about to admit guilt or anything, but anyways, our cars were given lots of power, and I'm 21. Enough said?

 

Anyone know anything about laser jammers? I apparently need to buy one now.

[NateWA]

When I was back at my cousins wedding I saw a laser/ radar jammer. It was integrated into my uncles friend's Bentley GT. Apparantly the dealership sends the cars out to have them installed... I was quite surprised.

[Lungy]

V1 if detectors are legal where you drive a Bel STi if they are not.

[TSiWRX]

When I was back at my cousins wedding I saw a laser/ radar jammer. It was integrated into my uncles friend's Bentley GT. Apparantly the dealership sends the cars out to have them installed... I was quite surprised.

 

^ Most of those are either K40 products, or Escort.

 

Past K40's radar and laser reception are average. Typically on-par with Bel's previous-generation products. Current radar and jammer performance remains an unknown, as no community-trusted source has tested them, independently.

 

With Escort's products, the ZR3 (along with its "SR" series of integrated detector/jammer solutions), for a while, did very well against threats, but as police LIDAR technology continued to advance, the ZR3 was sadly never updated, and that left it open to a lot of the newer threats.... Depending on where you live, the situation now ranges from being that you could still get away with the ZR3 and get excellent protection, all the way to the other extreme - where the ZR3 is not providing you any coverage, at all. In terms of detection, though, the ZR3 provided outstanding laser detection, and the SR-series remote-mounted detectors pushed performance to within a hair of the ultra-sensitive V1.

 

Escort recently re-upped things with the ZR4 (and 9500ci, to take the place of the "SR" remote-mounted series). It remains to be seen whether or not the ZR4 will offer any appreciable performance advantage over the ZR3...and sadly, it seems that, for now, Escort's re-design of the heads of this jammer has caused it to again suffer weathersealing problems (which was something that Escort worked out of the ZR3, after a couple of years' of hard-won experience). It remains also unknown whether or not the ZR4 will actually be "upgradeable" as new threats arise. Laser detection on the ZR4 remains superior, and the 9500ci's RADAR performance is rumored to either meet or exceed that of the in-car, stand-alone V1.

 

Bel - which is now a part of Escort - has always also offered counterparts to the ZR3, but currently, they do not have a ZR4 counterpart. The Bel STi-R (kinda a counterpart to the 9500ci, but not quite) is a more specific-to-Euro/Australia detector, aimed more at their usage preferences, and is also, as with the stand-alone, in-car Bel STi-Driver, fully radar-detector-detector cloaked (even to Spectre), and thus the only choice that should be viable for anyone living in a detector-forbidden area.

 

Blinder may also have a share of the "dealer installed" market, but it's not specifically paired with any detector - which would make a concealed/integrated installation much harder. We're not talking about "average" installers at a dealership (even a high-end dealership), here, but superior-level work done by install-savvy countermeasures enthusiasts/hobbyists.....

 

Recently, LaserStar has tried to gain headway by linking itself to dealerships - specifically, Audi and BMW. I know that LPP here, stateside, have also tried to move into the direct-to-aftermarket/dealership area, but I don't know if they've penetrated the market.

 

------

 

Anyone know anything about laser jammers? I apparently need to buy one now.

 

If you can wait a bit, the latest GOL testing data should be just around the corner.

 

They've promised the RD.net enthusiast crowd that they'd try to get things done before the summer lets out, and we should finally see conclusive data regarding pieces like the PASS, LaserStar, Escort ZR4, as well as the Blinder 5-suffix units of J15 revision.

 

They will also work to finally put the production -versus- pre-production Laser Interceptor issue (brought about by their last round of testing) to-rest.

 

I'd honestly wait-out.

 

 

-----

 

 

BTW, I last wrote here about LIDAR jammers: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40164&highlight=jammer&page=2 - back in March.

 

A lot has changed since then, and much of what I'd written, which was then up-to-date, is now no longer valid.

 

I'll try to revisit this thread here, to continue discussion, in a little bit. :

[TSiWRX]

OK, sorry for the delay - a quick "market update."

 

Right now, all indications point to the current retail version of the Laser Interceptor (LI) to be the real McCoy. In all independent hobbyist tests, to-date, it's shown a definitive dominance, in terms of performance.

 

C55/C63, Cliff, is now the stateside distributor, and he's been doing a great job at both taking care of the warranty claims, for defective weatherproofing - which plagued the first of the US-bound head units - as well as for establishing a new standard of customer-service by which, now, all of the rest of the industry is trying to aspire to. Being also an involved hobbyist himself, the LI currently enjoys what I would humbly say to be the most accessible and most knowledgeable customer-support, and as well seems to be the fastest in responding to new/upcoming LIDAR threats (i.e. the upcoming handheld LTI TruSpeed police LIDAR).

 

With the next round of Guys of Lidar testing, we should finally have definitive proof as to the performance of the LI, and this is highly anticipated.

 

So far, AntiLaser (AL) seems to have not taken much to respond to claims of less-than-stellar customer-service that's stemmed largely from poor head weatherproofing, which seems to continue to plague even the latest revisions of the G8.

 

The Laser Pro Park (LPP), continues to do well, and continues with a strong following on the hobbyist scene. With established resellers both stateside as well as for Canada, the latter with a strong background of excellent customer service, this product continues to be a crowd favorite, despite its higher expense (which is partly offset, when compared to the AntiLaser G8, with that product's need for import) and the fact that it remains only a two-head capacity control-box device. Currently, the LPP also is thought of to be marginally less capable than its most direct counterpart, the AL (from which it derives bloodline), and residual concern continues to manifest as to how fast they can respond to updated LIDAR threats, on an engineering level.

 

Both of these products will likely also again see testing at the next GOL event, and as with the LI, their results are highly awaited.

 

Blinder's new J15 revision is highly anticipated at the test, also, and we're indeed all eagerly awaiting trusted independent results to see how this revision runs. The M25/35/45 of the J11 revision has been something of a disappointment (and a strong point of controversy) in the community, and we're hoping that the J15 will be a proper resolution. With the Blinder being one of the only remaining LED-based jammers, and its cost-factor being very close to that of the leading laser-diode based jammers, performance is a big issue. Currently, all that Blinder really has in its pocket is the fact that they are a "legitimate" open-market business, and that in as much as that is concerned, they carry with them a better-than-average warranty-claim/honor record.

 

Speaking of LED-based jammers, the Escort ZR4 (as a stand-alone or as a component of the 9500ci remote-mounted detector/jammer) Laser Shifter (translation: "jammer") is of unconfirmed and highly-contested effectiveness, and also has seen its share of early durability/reliability (weatherproofing) issues. My current advice, if you're considering this product, would be to hold-off until the GOL testing, in order to confirm its true capabilities in a more controlled, more highly regimented testing scenario. While I am not optimistic (as the independent hobbyist reports seem to share the same less-than-stellar performance data, while testing done by those who are "conflicted" parties, on the other hand, seem to say that this device works better), such detailed testing would still be able to better demonstrate the specific strengths/weaknesses of the unit, which can then be utilized to construct a proper jammer strategy (i.e. that if the unit remains capable against X or Y police LIDAR device, but not device Z, you can still use it, if your local area favors devices X or Y).

 

Recently, we've also seen the aggressive marketing of a new laser-diode based jammer called the LaserStar. Operating from Neil Brown's umbrella and marketed with the help of The Goons (aka The Four Horsemen) - a play on the Guys of LIDAR) this product has stirred up old resentments and rifts in the community, and furthermore, due to those principles and their rather shameless SPAM marketing techniques (and outright lies) on various on-line automotive enthusiast Forums, have earned them even more hatred from within the speed-detections countermeasures community. It's rather sad, as, from all indications, the LaserStar appears to be a clone of the AntiLaser product - and should thus be a decently capable jammer - and is priced very, very attractively. Rumors are, however, that LaserStar will be tested by the GOL at the next ShootOut....so the negative subjective associations aside, we'll all at least see what this unit is truly capable of, performance-wise. The only other concern is that with the cast of characters that is behind the LaserStar, whether or not it can be "trusted" as a product....these individuals have repeatedly bailed-out of past projects that have not succeeded (i.e. Laser Mimic, Laser Defender, etc.), leaving-out when the projects failed to make a market impression or when the initial "fast money" disappeared. This, to me, as a consumer, would be very, very concerning.

 

At the same time, there's also the PASS - marketed by Cheetah-USA (solely, this is *not* a global SpeedCheetah product), which is an *extremely* trusted name in the industry and hobbist/enthusiast community. With a dedication to customer-service and the hobbyist/enthusiast community that's spanned countless years, the latter concern of the LaserStar is not an issue - however, what's happened is that there's been quite a disparity between various hobbyist tests of this product, in terms of performance. Currently, we don't really know why the differences exist - be it from defective units, quality/control, production variance.....we just don't know, and it's causing quite a divide in the community . Hopefully, the GOL tests will settle the issue. The PASS, from all indications is also an AntiLaser clone, and shares the same physical appearance as the LaserStar. Although the LaserStar never boasted of its weatherproofing capabilities, the PASS has demonstrated submersion-proof capabilities, at least in an initial-test format.

 

The overseas Blinder clone - the Laser Mask - has also shown some promise, but again, whether or not it can respond to newer LIDAR threats, as well as the question of customer-service/warranty support, is a big unknown. I'm not sure that this product will be a part of any GOL tests in the near future, but I am also of the opinion that this is not a legitimate product, based on post-purchase concerns.

 

All-in-all, I'd say that if you're looking to purchase a jammer, now, to wait-out for the next round of GOL tests, which, by all community rumor, should be conducted, done, and published before the end of the summer (hopefully!).

[brahtw8]

One was much more sensative, but also gave me 4-5 seconds faster detection on Ka band (what my county uses).

 

Based on that description, I would wager you are referring to the V1.

 

The V1 has been my detector of choice for many years. It has more false alarms than the 8500, but superior range and a better display. The directional arrows make a huge difference in locating the radar source, which I find to be very important.

 

No detector is perfect. Maintain an active visual scan and know the vehicles that are around you. Understand the limits of what the detector can do and what the police radar can do. Don't drive fast unless you know what is around you. Drive like you don't have a detector.

[TSiWRX]

^ That depends - there are situations (i.e. specific country's usage of different narrow-band Ka hardware, i.e. automated photoradar) where the selective Ka-band narrowing capabilities of the various Bel units may exceed the performance of the V1.

 

----

 

Overall, though:

 

No detector is perfect. Maintain an active visual scan and know the vehicles that are around you. Understand the limits of what the detector can do and what the police radar can do. Don't drive fast unless you know what is around you. Drive like you don't have a detector.

 

Precisely right.

 

No detector is perfect - this is both a technological shortcoming, as well as will again pop up to be the issue when the detector-to-driver interface is considered (i.e. the question of: "Is this the right detector for my specific usage needs?").

 

But regardless of the detector selection - even if you have a top-flight detector - the driver should still pay their full attention and maintain an active scan, with good situational awareness. There are plenty of other ways which speed-enforcement can catch you off-guard, and this not only includes the non-RADAR/non-LIDAR "traditional" as well as more advanced (i.e. aerial VASCAR) methods, but even the best, most sensitive detector will still only alert you of an instant-on RADAR hit on your vehicle, when you're essentially toast.

 

Being an alert driver is always #1. There's no substitute.

 

The directional arrows make a huge difference in locating the radar source, which I find to be very important.

 

^ Since you're a long-time V1 user, you may know of this already, but just in case you didn't:

 

- Be careful, don't trust the arrows blindly. "Ghosting" is still very much possible on the V1, just as it is on any detector. Similarly, there have been documented episodes of spurious/false arrow "location" of the RADAR signal.

 

These are technical limitations of the device. For as awesome of an instrument the V1 is, it is still, as you said above, imperfect. Be aware of its technical (and situational) limitations.

 

[bendite]

V1 is sweet. I have been saved by the rear radio more than a few times.

 

Just last weekend I passed a cop on the road and the V1 picked it up from the front in time for me to slow down but he knew I was on it. I had a feeling he was going to wait for me to be out of sight and then tail me. I could not see him but the rear detection was going off. Couple miles later, there he was on my bumper. Got nothing and turned around after about 5 minutes and nailed someone that was coming up behind me.

 

All the way to SoCal the V1 would pick up CHP from so far out I thought it was false but eventually i'd see the cop and be stoked that I listened to the V1.

 

Little chatty in town but I don't know how many times the V1 has saved me.

[DocHolladay23]

I have the 8500. Based on test results it seems that if your driving on mostly freeways the V1 is the way to go (greater range, more time to slow down), but if you do a lot of city driving, wich I do, the passport is the way to go. I wanted a V1 originally, but there are waaayyy too many false alerts to make it usefull in the city. Passport Escort 9500i will definately be on my windshield when I decide to upgrade.

[TSiWRX]

bendite and Doc -

 

With the V1, it can be quieted-down significantly, via the use of its advanced programming functions:

 

http://www.valentine1.com/lab/MikesLabRpt3.asp

 

However, exercise care in doing so. Remember that the end-goal of the V1 is to alert the user to *every* signal seen, and to let the end-user serve as the true final-filter.

 

By enabling too-aggressive alert suppression, you may end-up blindsiding yourself - overlooking a true alert.

 

A better solution, for those who drive in such non-enforcement-signal dense areas, may be the incorporation of a bypass switch device, such as the Cheetah GPS-Mirror or their ActiveStealth system, which allows the end-user to set specific alert parameters, such as one to be governed by vehicle road-speed (i.e. if you're going the PSL or below, no alert, but if you go above your set-point, alerts are presented in-full).