crazytiger Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 First auto-x in the LGT tomorrow. I have autocrossed before in a CSP CRX (fun), SS Miata(more fun), and a "spec Miata" road race car (even more fun). What should I expect form the LGT? It is basically stock. No power or suspension upgrades (yet), but I will be in STU because I have stainless steel brake lines. I am also running on the RE92's. My guess is that it's gonna push, push, and push some more....... I have never driven an AWD near the limit though. Don't really know the tendencies. Can't wait to find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 ^ damn it man! give me some earlier notice next time! hahaha. think understeer.. it's gonna be a lot, you'll have to get use to the car that will transistion from FWD feeling to RWD feeling and back to FWD when you are on the throttle, off the throttle, and back on the throttle. Hope that makes sense. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Manual or 5EAT? I think I biased 3psi to the rear and the car [wagon] was pretty neutral, but those were F1 GS D3's. After some hunting back-and-forth between 1st and 2nd I put it in Sport mode and locked it into 2nd. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 ^ damn it man! give me some earlier notice next time! hahaha. think understeer.. it's gonna be a lot, you'll have to get use to the car that will transistion from FWD feeling to RWD feeling and back to FWD when you are on the throttle, off the throttle, and back on the throttle. Hope that makes sense. Sounds a lot like the 'ole CRX. I had a decent suspension set up on that car, and with the tire pressure set juuuuussst right, that thing would rotate pretty well. (for a wrong wheel drive car anyway..) It's gonna be a hoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 Manual or 5EAT? I think I biased 3psi to the rear and the car [wagon] was pretty neutral, but those were F1 GS D3's. After some hunting back-and-forth between 1st and 2nd I put it in Sport mode and locked it into 2nd. Manual, and I am hoping to be able to leave it in second, because I have yet to master the heel-toe in this car.http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 it's only autox, what is there to heel toe? this car doesnt need 1st gear, you just keep driving it into 2nd. I doubt the course you will run on will make you go into 3rd.. 1st gear does up to 34 mph on the stock size tires.. and 58 mph on 2nd.. I've done autoxs where I had to shift into 3rd for a bit to drive up to 70 mph.. that was just crazy fast for an autox event. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 it's only autox, what is there to heel toe? this car doesnt need 1st gear, you just keep driving it into 2nd. I doubt the course you will run on will make you go into 3rd.. 1st gear does up to 34 mph on the stock size tires.. and 58 mph on 2nd.. I've done autoxs where I had to shift into 3rd for a bit to drive up to 70 mph.. that was just crazy fast for an autox event. My club (http://www.teamtac.org) runs most of their events at an old airport. We use one of the runways and a taxi way. Depending on how the course is set up, we might touch 3rd and they might put in a few super tight sections that may require 1st. (in order to keep the car in boost) Obviously, it will be great if I can simply maintain 2nd around the track. I am not counting on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 out of my 300+ events, i have only shifted into 1st like 10 times.. carry speed into the turn.. for turbo cars, left foot brake and be liberal on the brakes, just keep that psi up! Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 left foot brake and be liberal on the brakes, just keep that psi up! Absolutely. That will be the "new science" that I will need to learn. Never really had the need to to that before. But which is better: - Carry speed in and keep the boost up with left foot braking (a necessity in turbo cars) or - The old saying of, "slow in - fast out" which is tried and true, and I am a firm believer in...... The latter probably has more application on a road course than an autocross. If nothing else, I plan to do at least two things tomorrow: 1. Learn about the cars tendencies. And 2. Try and be smooth (no stabbing at the throttle, wrenching the wheel, etc....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 oh, you do BOTH!!!! it's a skill that you do both left-foot braking and doing "slow in, fast out".. like I said, be liberal on the brakes.. when done correctly, you should be able to rotate the car even more so because you are locking up the fronts, and the rear tires should have some power left in it to rotate the car.. it's also a huge balancing act. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 oh, you do BOTH!!!! it's a skill that you do both left-foot braking and doing "slow in, fast out".. like I said, be liberal on the brakes.. when done correctly, you should be able to rotate the car even more so because you are locking up the fronts, and the rear tires should have some power left in it to rotate the car.. it's also a huge balancing act. This car has more capabilities than any other that I have had before. (AWD / 250 hp/tq / etc...) It is going to take some serious seat time to learn this beast. I am looking forward to being surprised in many different ways tomorrow. Good, bad, and otherwise.......http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif I will post some pics and a recap at some point after the event. May be Sunday before I get to it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 This car has more capabilities than any other that I have had before. (AWD / 250 hp/tq / etc...) It is going to take some serious seat time to learn this beast. I am looking forward to being surprised in many different ways tomorrow. Good, bad, and otherwise.......http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif I will post some pics and a recap at some point after the event. May be Sunday before I get to it.... the bad: dont stab at the throttle or apply too quick of an input.. the drive by wire will think it's some kind of mistake you are doing as a driver. Be smooth with the throttle, you'll find out later that you'll have to learn to get use to the throttle application isnt as direct as you want it to be. There are times when I go into a drift and I'm trying to floor it but the ECU thinks Im making a mistake.. the throttle slowly opens up rather than a quick stab that I need to keep the drift going. This is one of those cars where you go in hot enough to swing the rear around, but not soo fast to where you understeer.. it's a real balancing act with that case. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 Now for the recap: - Need to disable the ABS ASAP!!! Tons of marbles where we run, and the ABS was causing me to over drive most of the features. I just did a search and discovered that there is a single fuse that I need to pull to disable it. I think I will keep it out on a permanent basis. - Need to lean how to "launch" the car effectively. I'm not talking about a drag race style launch, but something a little more than just normal engagement. I am trying to be as easy on the clutch / driveline as possible since the LGT is my company car. I had a few decent launches slipping the clutch from about 3,000 rpm, but I just wasn't comfortable doing it. - Ran 42 psi front and 48 psi rear in the RE92's and they did just fine. (for crap tires) All bets were off anyway. All the guys with good tires were never able to get them heated up because we ran in 30 degree weather Saturday. The level playing field was nice. Oh and the RE92's are as predictable as any tire out there. All of these dooshbags claiming that the RE's break lose without warning must doing some really stupid stuff on the street. - The car is way more "tossable" that I thought it would be. It did push, but not nearly as bad as I had expected. It was fairly easy to get it to rotate. I can't wait to add some decent suspension and some sways. - Left foot braking is no longer just for helping the back end to step out. If you intend to drive a turbo car at the limit, you must learn to do this! Unfortunately, it is not in my arsenal yet. Several times, I just barely came out of boost (by about 2 rpm!) and it completely blew the lap. Need more seat time on this one..... - My upgraded brakes really showed their worth out there. The few times the ABS didn't engage, the brakes were excellent. I have DBA slotted rotors, Bobcat pads, and stainless steel lines. Highly recommend this set up. http://legacygt.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif - Overall I give the car a "B" and I give myself a "C" on the day. I was within two seconds of the leader in STU (an uber WRX with an excellent autocrosser at the wheel) http://i5.pbase.com/o6/69/695869/1/74488937.9IOqGtIS.P2170078.JPGhttp://i5.pbase.com/o6/69/695869/1/74488932.KqN3TIos.P2170071.JPG http://i5.pbase.com/o6/69/695869/1/74488921.htncrSzk.P2170057.JPG http://i5.pbase.com/o6/69/695869/1/74488914.9TiUn6aj.P2170049.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 sounds good, it will take time.. 2 seconds is a quite a bit of time though.. how did you PAX? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 sounds good, it will take time.. 2 seconds is a quite a bit of time though.. how did you PAX? No PAX. It was just a test and tune day with no official times recorded. I was just keeping an eye on the board. I was running clean 35's flat, and he was running 33's and change...... and we were both getting killed by the Miata's:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 what did the miatas run? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 what did the miatas run? If I remember correctly, I saw a couple of 31's...... I may have dreamed that up though. I was trying to keep an eye on my STU bretheren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 lol, start to worry if an STS car beats you. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 lol, start to worry if an STS car beats you. I felt like I could have been in the low 34's or possibly high 33's with no ABS issues and a little better left foot braking management. I wish my brother had been there to co drive in order to set the bench mark in my car. Oh, well, it's back to Live For Speed for the next few weeks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianspi Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 autox'ing with bobcats? enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 autox'ing with bobcats? Why not? I will only be autocrossing a handful of times this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 autox'ing with bobcats? it's preferred, why not? Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianspi Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 My understanding is they only operate up to 900F. Isn't that dangerous for track use? enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazytiger Posted February 19, 2007 Author Share Posted February 19, 2007 My understanding is they only operate up to 900F. Isn't that dangerous for track use? I had not heard that. May be true...... I dunno, but I would think that it would only be an issue if you were road racing, where you were making longer sustained braking inputs from higher speeds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 My understanding is they only operate up to 900F. Isn't that dangerous for track use? I think you're mixing up the difference of track vs autocross. There's a difference in the two situations. In autocross, the course design speeds are not to exceed anything past 60 mph (or there of based on the club regulations). You are only driving of a duration of anywhere from 30 seconds to no more than 75 seconds. There's a lot of down time between runs to allow the brakes to cool. In track driving where the speeds are excess of over 100 mph, the braking zones are harder and hotter on the brakes. The sessions are around 15 to 20 mins long, so there's any easy way to rack up about 10 to 15 hard braking sessions, which doesnt allow the brakes to cool down until you come off the track. To give you an idea, road course (track) can get as high as 1200F (but I havent hit that number yet, even in 100F weather with no brake ducts). Most track pads are designed to handle operating temperatures starting at either 150F or 300F all the way to 1500F to 1750F.. the higher half of the temps are usually for endurance-type racing pads and when cold, they usually are soo hard that they would eat up the rotors. Autocrossing normally pushes the edge of nearly 750F on a hot day while left braking the entire course to get them that hot. The limit for Bobcats are around the 750F to 850F range.. anything higher than that and you will get brake fade. Of my many events at an autocross (over 300 by now), I have never faded a set of Bobcats in all sorts of weather. I have even done back to back 10 runs for an autocross school and still have no fade. Crazytiger is using the Bobcats for autocross use, which is different than actual road-track use. If you want to do road track events, you would use the Carbotech XP12 or XP16 up front and use XP8 or XP10 in the rears (unless you want to use XP12 and X16 in the rear, you can as well, but I think that's overkill as the rears dont get as hot as the fronts by far). Hope that clear a few things up. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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