krzyss Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 how does reliabilty reflect on availability of options? Krzys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp85 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 3.6 N/A........no thanks now throw in a Mfr turbo & now you are talking;) that 3.6 VR6 is one helluva engine...pretty damn quick for N/A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnoggins Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Without having seen or driven one, my impressions are: Highs: pretty capable when all the electronics are functioning comfortable/luxurious Lows: reliability expectations expensive heavy Dealers (whom you will probably get to know fairly well) Bang for the buck is not how I would describe this car, and you better have plenty of spare time. Volkswagens have long since been the car for the people, IMHO they are for patient posers. Subaru will evolve, and your cars will last until they make new products that will appeal to you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Without having seen or driven one, my impressions are: Highs: pretty capable when all the electronics are functioning comfortable/luxurious Lows: reliability expectations expensive heavy Dealers (whom you will probably get to know fairly well) Bang for the buck is not how I would describe this car, and you better have plenty of spare time. Volkswagens have long since been the car for the people, IMHO they are for patient posers. Subaru will evolve, and your cars will last until they make new products that will appeal to you again. I don't disagree with you completely but you ought to drive one before judging. "Poser" implies someone is trying to pretend to be something they're not. What is a Passat driver pretending to be? Having owned Audis and VW's (I don't draw a huge distinction), I think they are great cars with one glaring fault, reliability. They have a few other minor faults but all cars do. I'd buy another A4 without hesitation if I believed it would be reliable enough but I don't believe that. However, my wife's '99 Passat has been quite good but I think that's a bit of a fluke. My LGT so far has been in for the cruise control 2 or 3 times (still broken), cooling fan a total of 4 times (2 cycles of diagnose, order parts, fix), rear camber cam stripped, some minor trim problems and a few other minor things that I forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp85 Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 I don't disagree with you completely but you ought to drive one before judging. "Poser" implies someone is trying to pretend to be something they're not. What is a Passat driver pretending to be? Having owned Audis and VW's (I don't draw a huge distinction), I think they are great cars with one glaring fault, reliability. They have a few other minor faults but all cars do. I'd buy another A4 without hesitation if I believed it would be reliable enough but I don't believe that. However, my wife's '99 Passat has been quite good but I think that's a bit of a fluke. My LGT so far has been in for the cruise control 2 or 3 times (still broken), cooling fan a total of 4 times (2 cycles of diagnose, order parts, fix), rear camber cam stripped, some minor trim problems and a few other minor things that I forget. i agree...we are not posers. vw's always are on the cutting edge of technology, yes sometimes can be a little fickle, but that's what warranties are for. if you take care of your dub or audi, it will be just as reliable as anything else out there. and just cos i am a vw/audi fan, i still love subies, so don't take this as a shot at subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 i agree...we are not posers. vw's always are on the cutting edge of technology, yes sometimes can be a little fickle, but that's what warranties are for. if you take care of your dub or audi, it will be just as reliable as anything else out there. and just cos i am a vw/audi fan, i still love subies, so don't take this as a shot at subaru. I don't necessarily agree with the posers comment (where did that come from, anyway), but it simply is not true that VW group products are just as reliable as any other make, ESPECIALLY a subaru. Not even close. I had a 98 A4 for 8.5 years, and I did love the car but it was far more expensive to maintain than my 95 legacy. Dont even think about comparing it to my 99 MX-5. Never have the words "check engine light" stricken so much fear into the ears of a car owner than when the owner has a VW group product. Some friends of ours just dumped their W8 wagon on a trade in and were praying that the CEL didnt come on - a 4 year old car with an incessant CEL requiring on fix after another - First $300, then $2500, ugh. On top of a series of past repairs. The guy accepting their tradein was very cautious to look for the CEL and ask them about it, but luckily the light didn't go off while they were on the lot and they escaped with a better trade in price than the car with CEL on. I for one will never buy another VW group product. They are NOT reliable, and they are NOT CHEAP to fix. Neat cars, but never again - I'd sooner buy a GM or Ford, too bad they make nothing desirable. Dont get me wrong, I wish you nothing but luck with your GTI, but you are wrong to say that all you have to do is give the car proper maintenance and it is as reliable as a subaru - maybe it's as reliable as an '85 GM POS, but that's about it. I think VW bought Lucas electronics and uses british electrical technology in their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 I agree on VAG reliability. It's not nearly as good as it should be. I mainained my A4 perfectly and it needed frequent repairs. Among many others, I had to replace all front control arms at 75k because the ball joints were failing. How would better maintenance have prevented that? Similarly, I had to replace the whole wiper linkage and the ignition switch. The ignition switch failed because the cig lighter got stuck 1/2 way in so kept drawing power. The thing is, the cig lighter was always powered yet was wired through the ignition switch. That's just piss poor. Also, there's no way to maintain the wiper linkages. As I said previously, I'd buy another VW or Audi in a heartbeat if I thought it would be reasonably reliable. I don't so I won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnoggins Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sorry for the late and lengthy reply but, here it is. In retrospect, I should not have used the word poser, as it may offend, which isn't my intention. My point is simply, I would have to ask myself why would I (IMHO) want to spend thousands of dollars more for a VW or Audi. There would have to be some major incentives, because along with like a 50% markup (give or take), I lose reliability, gain like 500 pounds (give or take), I would gain a bit more comfort, and have lots of gadgets (I do like gadgets, I must admit), and since I drive my FXT mostly, would gain much a better fit and finish and looks admittedly (not too much better if I compare to my Legacy). But that's allot of bank, which I could spend on any number of improvements, or spend someplace else entirely. To me, I don't see the appeal. I'm a function before form kind of person, and with that much extra cash, I can make just about any newer Subaru outperform my limitations as a driver or more comfortable then I would ever need to be, or spend it on my family. Along with all that, if I can decrease the possibility, even slight, that I won't get broken down on the side of the road, or get into an accident because the car started to hesitate or stall, with my family in the car.... luxury and whistles and bells suddenly become even less appealing or important. For that much extra money the car would have to out perform (in all areas including functionality) be more reliable, use even less gas, have better service... whatever, ain't gonna happen. That's all my opinion, and when I said poser, it's because I think that the VWs and Audis do look better then most Subarus do, to see and be seen in. I think it's a huge part of our culture that people use "bling" to attract a mate and those cars have a bit more sex appeal. Strike a pose![/Madonna] I'm married so I just don't need to haul around all the peacock feathers any more. I wish Subaurs looked like and had the fit and finish, whistles and bells and luxury of those others, but they're getting better, I can buy used which financially is a better idea then new, or wait for what lies around the bend with Subaru, I know my Subies will get me there. And you never know, maybe Subaru will start to slip, and VW will tighten up their ship, but they're not there yet, and they think they are way better then they are, and I think their greedy and messed up with the way they won't announce their recalls publicly, as it is "voluntary". That's just how I see it, I'm not looking to argue or offend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 This is good news, because the passat is bigger than the A4, which is really too small for us. I guess I have to start checking into the passat in a serious way to replace my LGT when the time comes. Does anyone know the schedule for the next passat refresh? I think the current one is a little on the heavy side. OTOH, do you think the A4 Avant is going to get bigger? I really love the audi styling, but the car itself is a little small on the inside, and too heavy overall. This used to be a big selling point for subaru, both great interior size and low weight, back in the old days . . . (pre 2008) Yeah me too.. maybe a good replacement for our LGT Wagons when it's time to do so.. Don't plan on replacing my wagon at this time, but in the future.... Shame on you SoA, at least give us the option to order it... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sorry for the late and lengthy reply but, here it is. In retrospect, I should not have used the word poser, as it may offend, which isn't my intention. My point is simply, I would have to ask myself why would I (IMHO) want to spend thousands of dollars more for a VW or Audi. There would have to be some major incentives, because along with like a 50% markup (give or take), I lose reliability, gain like 500 pounds (give or take), I would gain a bit more comfort, and have lots of gadgets (I do like gadgets, I must admit), and since I drive my FXT mostly, would gain much a better fit and finish and looks admittedly (not too much better if I compare to my Legacy). But that's allot of bank, which I could spend on any number of improvements, or spend someplace else entirely. To me, I don't see the appeal. I'm a function before form kind of person, and with that much extra cash, I can make just about any newer Subaru outperform my limitations as a driver or more comfortable then I would ever need to be, or spend it on my family. Along with all that, if I can decrease the possibility, even slight, that I won't get broken down on the side of the road, or get into an accident because the car started to hesitate or stall, with my family in the car.... luxury and whistles and bells suddenly become even less appealing or important. For that much extra money the car would have to out perform (in all areas including functionality) be more reliable, use even less gas, have better service... whatever, ain't gonna happen. That's all my opinion, and when I said poser, it's because I think that the VWs and Audis do look better then most Subarus do, to see and be seen in. I think it's a huge part of our culture that people use "bling" to attract a mate and those cars have a bit more sex appeal. Strike a pose![/Madonna] I'm married so I just don't need to haul around all the peacock feathers any more. I wish Subaurs looked like and had the fit and finish, whistles and bells and luxury of those others, but they're getting better, I can buy used which financially is a better idea then new, or wait for what lies around the bend with Subaru, I know my Subies will get me there. And you never know, maybe Subaru will start to slip, and VW will tighten up their ship, but they're not there yet, and they think they are way better then they are, and I think their greedy and messed up with the way they won't announce their recalls publicly, as it is "voluntary". That's just how I see it, I'm not looking to argue or offend. Ok, first off, VW and Audi are absolutely at two different price points. Audi is direct competition for BMW and Mercedes. There's no two ways about that. Sure, you may question why someone would pay that much for an unreliable car but Mercedes are at least as unreliable and BMW is only slightly better. People pay for these cars for a number of reasons but brand prestige, fit and finish, ride, handling, performance and just feel are all among them. The little things that Audi thinks about are really nice. The seats are comfortable. The suspension dampening is 100x better than Subaru and the body structures feel really solid (yes, I know how safe Subarus are). VW is definitely a step or two down the price ladder. Yes, I know about the Phaeton but that is now gone. I also know that a fully loaded Passat is pretty pricey. However, a fully loaded Avalon isn't cheap either. A base Passat isn't very expensive at all. VW seems to be settling at a price point that's a slight premium to Honda and Toyota and based on features and how they drive, I think this is justified. Unfortunately, it's not justified when you look at reliability. Go take a seat in a new GTI. The material quality is very nice and the rear seat room is about the same as a Legacy. It also handles great. I'll say it again, I'd buy a VW in a second if I thought the reliability was there. Audis are a bit too pricy and I'm not sure I want to spend that much on a car regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnoggins Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 There are more expensive VWs, and cheaper or even used Audis. I wouldn't only consider new cars. I wouldn't buy a MB or BMW either, nor an Avalon for that matter. I do like some Bimmers, but it has plenty of downfalls too. Another thread perhaps? Prestige, interesting word. That's about the time I start thinking poser. My $.02 My car is many things, a status symbol I don't consider it to be, because that has no value to me. Comfort, again not as important, to me, I guess I have a firm backside. I find Subarus plenty comfortable for me. Feel of solid body structures, that solid sound when you slam the doors, don't care, usually that means they've added nice but needless sound deadening, not feeling it for the price jump, and I think the Legacy is plenty quiet and/or solid. I know VWs are nice looking, I already gave props for that and I'm sure the GTI is no different. I would buy a VW too if they checked all the boxes as the Subarus do, but they don't, so in essence it seems we really agree on most, if not all points. http://www.autospies.com/news/The-Figures-Are-Out-Who-Was-The-Recall-King-of-2006-11712/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp85 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 wow, didn't know this would turn into a dub grilling session. well thanks for the good wishes for my GTI, i am in love but i do have all the respect in the world for subies...that's why i still frequent the site every once in a while, and my girl has a 2000 forester...and she's probably gonna get an outback in the next year or so...at least i hope! anywho, vw/audi is a certain type of monster that you either love or hate, but when they are cooperating with you they are awesome machines. thank god for new car warranties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 smp85, good luck with the GTI. I really like that car though I wish it had the Haldex available. I totally agree with your assesment of VW and Audi. Maybe my tolerance for their shenanigans will change and I'll buy another one someday. Or, better yet, VAG will figure out how to make them as reliable as a Japanese car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smp85 Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 thanks pdw, i know i'm gonna need it! lol it would be nice if they offered haldex, or really really nice if torsen could be fitted in the golf platform. i want to do a software upgrade, but it seems pointless to have more than 207 lb/ft of torque sent to the front wheels...o well, maybe a legacy GT or S-Line Audi A4 will be in my future for my next daily driver in 7 or 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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