ManM Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Alright, don't mock me too much here. I'm driving the Legacy GT Lmt Auto and playing with manual mode. I have never driven a manual in my life. That being said, what are the guidelines for downshifting when coming into traffic, or approaching a stoplight? Also, will downshifting with my foot off the gas harm my transmission/engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Your in an automatic you can downshift whenever, however nohting will happen if the transmission senses you are going too fast for the gear it won't let you do anything stupid. You don't need to downshift coming to a stop becuase its an auto you have no reason to. In traffic I always like to hold a power gear in a manual or auto such as getting onto the highway or something I don't know exactly what kind of traffic you are talking about though. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Downshift all you want. The car will not let you downshift if your speed is too great. The gear number will flash and you will hear a warning beep. It will also not harm the trans if your foot is off the gas. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 This is the beauty of computer controlled manual operation! You really can't do anything to hurt the transmission unless you are constantly shifting up and down and wearing it out. All you are doing when selecting [b]+[/b]or[b] -[/b] is informing the computer what you want to do. It decides if it's okay to actually do that or not. It's kind of fun to play with, but as others have said, it almost seems like the + and - are reversed from what they should be! I was playing with it a week ago and instinctively I pulled back on the knob to shift from 1st to 2nd and instead I got to the rev limiter in 1st. :( I wonder what I would have tried to do on a 2nd to third shift? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManM Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 "You don't need to downshift coming to a stop becuase its an auto you have no reason to." In my paricular area, there are 55 mph roads that are peppered with stoplights. So when I see a stoplight red in front of me, I let off of the gas and coast to it with the hopes of it turning green before I get there. So I guess I'm asking what gears are best for acceleration in various speed ranges. For example, if I've coasted down to 20 mph, what gear should I be in? From observation, the manual mode won't downshift unless the rpms/speed get really low, and when it does, it jumps down the gears quickly. Anyway, I hope I've clarified my question a little. Clear as mud, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I've heard for many years that you shouldn't really use your transmission as a braking device. It's much easier to change out rotors and pads than it is to service a worn transmission. Take that with a grain of salt if you like. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 except if you are going down a hill? I can drive a manual.. but i really don't know how i 'should' be driving a manual. I picture 4 & 5th as high speed / coast gears. when below 40mph.. i downshift to third to get more power when i accel, and upshift if I am at speed and i have my foot off the gas to coast.. i pop into 4th.. Should we EVER be at 5th unless at highway speeds ? if we are going to accelerate more then 20mph? then we should downshift to 3/4 as not to try and run the engine too hard in a cruise gear (5th ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLoo Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci']You don't need to downshift coming to a stop because its an auto you have no reason to.[/QUOTE] Well, you don't need to downshift with a MT either just put it in neutral, coast and apply brakes. But downshifting is fun! I do it all the time with the 5EAT, it really slows the car down just like a MT would do. That's the whole point of driving in manual mode, to emulate a MT and it's pretty good at that. I never downshift into first gear though. Just give it a few tries, downshift one gear at a time and manage not to downshift directly in a gear where you would rev at 5500 rpm+ but like others pointed out, the system won't let you do anything to break your car. A few times I've been trying to downshift in 2nd gear while @ 5500 in 3rd gear, I just get confused with the auto-stick when I use it, I prefer to use the steering buttons. 2005 Legacy GT Wagon Ltd 5EAT Garnet Red 1999 GTI VR6 Black - sold but not forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken S Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Compression (engine) braking as a replacement for normal braking isn't a good idea in both manual and automatic trannies. You put a higher than normal amount of force on the components. Also, brake pads and rotors are a lot easier and less expensive to replace than the transmission. In your case, I think the best thing to do is leave it in "Sport" mode. In "Sport" the transmission will downshift a lot sooner for your and keep you close to the optimal gear. Just brake as necessary and the system will do the rest for you. When the light turns green, Sport mode will also allow for more aggresive acceleration. Okay, with that out of the way, I'll answer your questions about manual shifting. First off, the 5EAT in manual mode will never downshift for you unless you pretty much come to a complete stop. It also won't upshift for you either. It gives you a lot more manual control compared to other tiptronic-style auto trannies. What it won't let you do, however, is up/downshift into a gear that could hurt it. Sportshift shows you what gears are available by the up/down arrows next to the gear position indicator. For example, if you're at 5000RPM in 3rd, you'll probably only see an arrow up since downshifting at this point would make you hit the rev limiter. Try downshifting by accident and the system politely tells you "no" by beeping. So what speeds are good for manual shifting? Engine RPM is a better gauge for what gear you can go into rather than vehicle speed. Here are a two general rules of thumb for manual shifting: Going up or down a gear from where you are will increase/decrease your RPMs by about 1000-1500. The actual amount will vary depending on the gear ratios. Typically lower gears are spaced wider so the difference will be greater than a 5<->4 shift. Play around with the manual shift mode and learn what they are. With that in mind, keep an eye on the tach before you decide to shift. When upshifting, make sure it will you keep your RPMs above 2000. Anything below that you will lug the engine. When downshifting, check to see that the engine isn't at 4000RPM or higher. The basic idea is to think ahead to know what RPM you want to be in. These are pretty basic rules that all manual drivers learn one way or another. Hope that helps. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GT_NJ Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='Trent Bates']I've heard for many years that you shouldn't really use your transmission as a braking device. It's much easier to change out rotors and pads than it is to service a worn transmission. Take that with a grain of salt if you like. :)[/QUOTE] That is an old time idea. Many, many years ago, brakes were one of the weakest points (least efficent?) of the system, so to help the car stop, you down shifted (automatics yet to be invented) and used the motor to assist in braking. Today, modern engineering and manufactoring has rendered that concept moot. Drive it as you like it! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkkwan Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 ManM - In your situation with the stop lights, you can downshift to 1st, 2nd or 3rd, depending on what you want to do when the light turns green. If you just want to accelerate moderately back up to speed, 3rd is fine. If you want the most power out of the slot, then 1st; 2nd in between. The maximum torque of our engine is produced at 3,600rpm, so if you want the best acceleration, you want your engine to be rev'ing at 3,600 or just slightly under. As for gas pedal, I'd been driving manual cars and 18-wheelers for over 10 years before the GT, and so I always rev-match when downshifting. You can do the same with the auto. Give a little gas when the auto is downshifting, and it smoothes out the shift a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05LegacyGT330Ci Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='TeeLoo']Well, you don't need to downshift with a MT either just put it in neutral, coast and apply brakes. [/QUOTE] Actually you do need to, one you should never be in nuetral just coasting, that is very dangerous. Secondly we need to have a gear ready just in case either the light changes to green or something causes us the need to be able to mvoe and get out of the way. An automatic takes car of both, as soon asyou hit the gas you have power and the transmission should pick the correct gear if you are in an emergency situation and need to move quickly. '05 Black Legacy GT Wagon 5-spd '02 Topaz/Black 330Ci 5-spd Drift Ryder's School of Rally Arts, coming to an Australia near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundBoy Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 so.. the general thinking for mt or at is that you should NEVER downshift as assistance in breaking? I only thought this was an effective technique when going down a fairly long hill.. when you would be braking much more then usual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_hunter Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Long downhills definitely require engine braking unless you want to encounter severe brake fade from heat. I remembered this while driving in the mountains over the weekend. It was nice to use the +/- in conjunction with intermittantly pumping the brakes to maintain a safe speed. If I had to go all the way down the mountain with the brakes on the whole time, I am sure the rotors would have been glowing red and I would have lost a lot of braking performance by the time I got to the bottom. I know brakes are cheap to replace, but if they give out (fade) while you are coming down a mountain and your car goes out of control, there will be bigger problems! So don't necessarily look at it from a wear and tear perspective, look at it from an overall performance perspective. For raw stopping power, stock brakes are fine. For longevity under severe repeated use, they have their limits. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeLoo Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci']Actually you do need to, one you should never be in nuetral just coasting, that is very dangerous. Secondly we need to have a gear ready just in case either the light changes to green or something causes us the need to be able to mvoe and get out of the way.[/QUOTE] OK so instead of putting it to neutral, just put in the appropriate gear while leaving the foot on the clutch to have it remained depressed, that's like being in neutral yet being gear ready. Then apply brakes. I've always driven my MTs this way. 2005 Legacy GT Wagon Ltd 5EAT Garnet Red 1999 GTI VR6 Black - sold but not forgotten... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [quote name='TeeLoo']OK so instead of putting it to neutral, just put in the appropriate gear while leaving the foot on the clutch to have it remained depressed, that's like being in neutral yet being gear ready. Then apply brakes. I've always driven my MTs this way.[/QUOTE] But then you are wearing out the pressure plate bearing. Just park your car in the driveway and leave it there... :) Regarding hills: I have used engine braking for big hills since I live right near the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. The point is to keep your RPM's relatively low in a lower gear while giving you brakes time to cool off frequently. You don't want to be going 45 MPH with the engine running at 5,500 RPM just so that you don't have to use your brakes. But you wouldn't want to have the engine idling at 1,000 while going 65 MPH with you foot holding the brake pedal down for 15 minutes either. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I have the 5EAT, and I rarely downshift when slowing down, the car jerks like I'm riding a bull even when the rpms in the gear I'm in are rather low. - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManM Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 "...the car jerks like I'm riding a bull even when the rpms in the gear I'm in are rather low." That's party why I started this topic. While coasting (foot off gas completely), a downshift seems to hit the car pretty hard. But if I don't downshift, I find myself coasting at 30 mph, less than 1000 RPM, and in 4th or 5th gear. Somehow the sports mode handles all of this stuff. It must be cheating somehow! :D I guess I'll just experiment a little more. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 You still should try to rev-match during a down shift. Since you said you haven't driven a Manual tranny, the point is to rev the engine up 1,000 to 1,500 RPM as you down shift. If you only shift the tranny and the car is going along at 1,000 RPM, it's got to bring the engine up to the new corresponding RPM through the clutch packs, bands, and Torque Convertor which is attached to the flywheel. There's your "bang". You have all the parts spinning in one direction at a certain speed and one of the bands grabs a drum and suddenly other parts need to start spinning at a faster speed while this drum has stopped. When you command a downshift by flooring the pedal, the RPM's are already increasing so it doesn't do this. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkkwan Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Of course you can just leave it in "D" or "Sports" when coasting to 20mph. And when the light changes and you step on it, the auto will downshift to the appropriate gear. However, this takes time - maybe a fraction of a second - which may or may not be important to you. If not, then just leave that way. But if you want the fastest acceleration right when the light turns, you want the car to be in 2nd already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Ok, so lastnight I did some brisk driving, nothing crazy, 93 hit $2.50 here so I'm gonna calm down a bit for now. But I was driving it in full manaul mode and got a good feeling for it, that is after goofing up with it a few times. I noticed once you get it right, it smooths out the ride, and when you get on it, you can really keep it in the power band. Gotta love the unwinding rev sound when your high in rpms in a lower gear and you let off the gas the rpms are dropping, and you get right on it "rummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm." This engine sounds like music, too bad the volume is on a really low setting, it sounds beautiful. When your doing it right in manual mode, it's amazing has quick it is, even though it doesn't feel like it, it takes off and builds speed amazingly fast. I'm in love let me tell you. I noticed if you downshift while slowing down and gas it a little bit it almost completely smooths it out. - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_hunter Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 If you want the quickest upshifts, slide the lever left into sport mode, but don't use the +/-. The resulting "auto" upshifts are damn near perfect. I have found the +/- shifting to be a little laggy, not at all like a real manual. The "auto" shifts in sport mode, however, are about as good as it gets, and the throttle-by-wire blends the shifts nicely. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Bates Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I concur. Focus on gas medal modulation instead of trying to help the computer do it's job. It seems to work pretty nicely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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