Driver72 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Well today, a couple of us LGT owners (Boostjunkie and myself along with Bart who doesn't frequent this board yet) met up. Boostjunkie has the stock shifter I have the STI Short Throw and Bart just installed the Kartboy. Boost and I were quite surprised to find that the Kartboy and the STI Short Throw were very similiar in feel, the Kartboy did feel a bit more positive in engagement, but overall the two felt very similiar. As for throw distance, I posted about this before comparing stock to the STI and Boost and I remeasured and here's what we found. The STI short throw decreases the length of the throw (say from 1st to 2nd gear) by about 1 1/2 inches over the stock unit. The Kartboy decreases the throw by only about 1/2 inch over the STI shortthrow (therefore 2 inches less than stock). I have the Momo (love it) shift knob on my STI shortthrow and from the centerstack to the top of the shift knob it's basically identical in height to the stock shifter and shift knob (maybe a millimeter or so shorter at most). The Kartboy shifter with the stock shift knob is about 1 inch shorter in height over the stock/STI shifter. I have to say though, since Bart was working, Boostjunkie and I didn't drive his car with the Kartboy shifter in. But rather we just rowed the shifter while sitting in the car. Without driving the car with the Kartboy it's hard to directly compare the Kartboy to the STI version in my car, but again, we both agreed, in feel from just sitting there, the Kartboy and the STI felt VERY similiar. Bart mention after installing the Kartboy he heard a "whining" sound coming from the shifter, and I believe he said he changed the bushings on Sunday and on his way to work on Monday didn't hear the whine. All in all here's my perspective. The STI ShortThrow retails for $339 installed. Order it on your car and the invoice is $221 installed. I paid about $4 above that price for it installed (or $225). The Kartboy costs about what $130 but then you must install it yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Install it yourself the price is a wash. Pay someone to do it...you'll pay more for the Kartboy. The Kartboy offers 1/2 shorter throw than the STI short throw and 1 inch shorter shift stalk. I loved the fact it's stalk was shorter, but for feel and throw distance it's nearly identical to the STI (oh and the distance side to side...say from 1st to 5th gear...is identical in all 3) therefore, personally I'm glad I choose to have the STI shortthrow installed at the port. Paid about $225 for it, installed and fully warrantied by Subaru. Not being a person who likes to rip my car apart, for me that made it the right choice. Moral....whether you go with the STI shortthrow from the factory or the Kartboy it's all good either way and worthy improvement over the long throw, rubbery feel of the stock shifter. Sorry so long...later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Ahem...some prefer "smooth" to "rubbery," when describing the stock shifter. Things can be different, without being negatively so. Short shifters are a "taste" thing. Some like the way they feel, some don't, and vive la difference. Don't worry about the length. Useful information is a great thing to have, and this should really help people make a decision about shorties. Cheers, Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Monkey Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Interior forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']Ahem...some prefer "smooth" to "rubbery," [/QUOTE] :D Yeah, I know what you mean. I actually kind of like the "rubbery" or "smooth" feeling of some manuals too. Namely VW and Audi. The car rags have bagged on that feel for years, but I've always liked it. But I also like the bolt action feel of say, the Acura TSX manual too. I went with the STI sts simply because I felt the stock LGT shifter was just too long in the throw. The STI sts is not perfect, a bit shorter even, with a shorter shifter height (like the Kartboy) would of been prefered. But, as stated, I like the fact the STI sts is installed by Subaru and fully warrantied by them as well. I posted this because I think many were thinking the Kartboy was significantly shorter in throw than the STI sts in the LGT. In fact, that's just not true. It's about 1/2 inch less distance, but more importantly it is 1 inch shorter in shifter height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnSub Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Anybody notice how ZEN gtguy's last post was? He must have brought back some really good vino from his Euro bike tour. ZEN plus a little red wine and we have lost our cranky gtguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 [quote name='MtnSub']Anybody notice how ZEN gtguy's last post was? He must have brought back some really good vino from his Euro bike tour. ZEN plus a little red wine and we have lost our cranky gtguy.[/QUOTE] :D Don't you worry. I'm sure something will come along that will set me off. But the realization that none of this matters, that there is no right or wrong when it comes to modding (well there is, but it's all what someone can tolerate) is liberating, for sure. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Hmm I have always pereived that the Kartboy was significantly shorter. Perhaps it was just the short stalk. Where did you measure the movement from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver72 Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 We measured it from the furthest point forward (closest to the radio) on the shift knob while in 1st gear to the furthest point back (closest to the armrest) on the shift knob while in 2nd gear. We marked a piece of paper that Boostjunkie held up alongside while I moved the shift lever. Again, the Kartboy was only about 1/2 inch shorter in throw than the STI. But the shift lever was 1 inch lower (not as tall). This will surely give you the feeling that the throw is shorter as well. When in reality the distance BETWEEN the gears may in fact be NO shorter than the STI sts, it may just be the fact that with the shorter shift lever, the distance of the throw is shorter. Like I pointed out in another thread where someone disagreed with me, but it's simply math, geometry, whatever. Think of it this way: On a stock shifter, with the stock shift lever, moving the shift lever from 1st to 2nd gear will have a distance of say 8 inches. Now, if you were to install a shift lever that was 3 feet long and stuck up to the roof, moving the exact same shifter from 1st to 2nd with this 3 foot long shift lever it's going to cover say 24 inches from the top of the shift lever. So, in fact the Kartboy's shift distance that we measured at the TOP of the shift lever was 1/2 inch less than the STI's sts, but the STI's shift lever was 1 inch taller. Had the Kartboy's shift lever NOT been 1 inch lower, it most likely would of had a throw distance equal to, if not LONGER than the STI's. The STI's shift lever is basically the exact same height of the stock one, but it's throw is 1.5 inches shorter. That is a TRUE reduction in throw because there is NO reduction in the shift lever height. What we should of done is measured the distance covered at the BASE of the shift lever. Doing that and I think you'd find the Kartboy shifter's actual throw distance is about the same as the STI's. It's the shorter lever stalk that makes it feel like it's a shorter throw. But that works too because someone with a Kartboy shifter is moving their hand .5 inches less distance than the STI's short throw shifter. And the less distance your hand needs to travel, the quicker you will get the shift lever from 1st to 2nd and therefore the quicker you can release the clutch (though we're talking hundreths of a second to cover that .5 inch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexmobbin Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 hmm. i would prefer the Kartboy i think. the stock seems to just sit too high, and if the STi is identical, then i'm sure i wouldn't be very thrilled with it. on the other hand, i'm gonna have $500 subaru bucks sitting around, and i gotta spend it on something, and i was definetely considering the STI sts. 2 questions: 1. would either sts wear down the synchros faster than usual? 2. if not the sts, what would you spend $500 subaru bucks on? can't use it to pay off the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 [QUOTE=Rexmobbin']hmm. i would prefer the Kartboy i think. the stock seems to just sit too high, and if the STi is identical, then i'm sure i wouldn't be very thrilled with it. on the other hand, i'm gonna have $500 subaru bucks sitting around, and i gotta spend it on something, and i was definetely considering the STI sts. 2 questions: 1. would either sts wear down the synchros faster than usual? 2. if not the sts, what would you spend $500 subaru bucks on? can't use it to pay off the car.[/QUOTE] 1. Nope, as long as you don't rush things. The STi shorty is excellent, because it is just short enough to feel sporty, but not so short that you find yourself rushing things. Remember, the throws shorten, but the transmission does its own thing in its own time. A short shifter is a bit of trickery, really. 2. If Mastro takes Subaru bucks for the Goodridge stainless lines, that's one chunka change you can spend those Subaru bucks on. And if you want the chicks to come running, get one of those fancy STi strut tower bars. :D Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexmobbin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 thanks kevin. 2 excellent choices on the items there. does the front strut tower bar do anything on this car? i know it was kinda a waste on the WRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 [QUOTE=Rexmobbin']thanks kevin. 2 excellent choices on the items there. does the front strut tower bar do anything on this car? i know it was kinda a waste on the WRX.[/QUOTE] It's a waste on this car too, but the ladies like it. Park, pop the hood and watch them come running. :D The other option is to wait a bit, and find a vendor who will take Subaru Bucks for the pink STi springs, which is what I would do. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexmobbin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 how much do the pinks lower the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 [QUOTE=Rexmobbin']how much do the pinks lower the car?[/QUOTE] 20mm. But the more important question is what do they do for the handling of the car? We aren't sure yet. Theoretically, what they "should" do is bring the spring in better compliance with the strut damping. If this is in fact the case, ride quality will improve over the current, undersprung car. Underspringing, BTW, is an excellent choice for a mass-market car. The ride quality is very good except over the short, sharp undulations that you don't see much of, and with good dampers, which the USDM feels as if it has from its handling excellence, this is a good compromise. An oversprung car just sucks, for lack of a better term. Now, without knowing what the USDM spring rates are, we don't know if the roughly 250/220 of the STi pink springs is too much, too little, or just right. I suspect it's the latter. And were I more ambitious, I'd pony up $400, break out the Ingersoll-Rand air tools and find out. But I'll leave that to someone else. :D Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Pimp Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']It's a waste on this car too, but the ladies like it. Park, pop the hood and watch them come running.[/QUOTE] Dang, and I thought my downpipe would do that. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexmobbin Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 patience Kevin. there will SOON be more affordable springs for us. at least i really hope so. if i'm gonna spend $400 on springs, might as well wait for some $1100 coilovers and go all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexmobbin Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 oops, didn't realize that i've successfully hijacked the thread. sorry 'bout that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 [QUOTE=Rexmobbin']patience Kevin. there will SOON be more affordable springs for us. at least i really hope so. if i'm gonna spend $400 on springs, might as well wait for some $1100 coilovers and go all out.[/QUOTE] I don't have any complaint with the affordability of the STi springs. I think they're fairly priced for what they are. If you look at the various Subaru boards, you'll find complaints about every spring (including Prodrive) except for the STi ones. I've fooled with many aftermarket parts, and STi stuff is the only thing I would EVER consider putting on my car. Returning to topic, I had an STi short shift kit in my WRX wagon, with Kartboy bushings, and liked it a lot. It made a lot of converts, who went out and got the same thing. :D Someone mentioned that they felt as if they were farther away from the shift lever with the Kartboy unit installed, which makes sense. It's a lower knob height. The stock (and STi) units seem to be designed for those two-handed drivers such as I, who have their hands at 3 and 9 o'clock on the steering wheel, remove it to shift, at put it back. The height of the stock lever, though it might seem unsporty, is very ergonomic in its function. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Kartboy FTW! I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.