Was this a jerk move?

[maestro774]

ALL the details(rate, price, term and so on) on the contract you signing- just pay attention.

 

Yes, but what I've seen is that some dealers hope you don't read carefully. They shuffle papers in front of you and that final pricing sheet can be tough to understand. Remember, dealers now have a clause in the contract that if they messed up the paperwork (in your benefit) they have time to correct it and you're obligated to accept the changes. There's no such protection for the buyer.

[suba_rus]

When I was looking at this car, the first salesman at the dealership gave me their special price on his business card to get me to come back, without me even asking. It was 18,988 for an 07 5MT SE, which is below invoice. I figured when I came in the next salesman would offer me that price as well. Guess what, she came back with $370/mo for 72 mo. Then I showed her the card from her co-salesman and they honored, but still, they tried to run one over on me.

 

Sounds like you still bought the car from the second dealer since they "honored" the price first dealer gave you. So even first dealer gave you good price and didn't play games with you.

 

Yep. No loyalty in this business.

 

I've never bought a car where they haven't played games like only giving you the monthly payment, which NEVER works out for the buyer.

 

Unless it's a lease.

[PGT]

ALL the details(rate, price, term and so on) on the contract you signing- just pay attention.

 

right. dumb consumers who sign without reading are just as bad as unscrupulous dealers who grab their hand and push the pen down. some even go so far as to not give you teh keys back to your possible trade in, so it makes it hard to walk on them.

 

I used to work for the lobbyist on Capitol Hill for import car dealers (your employer is probably a member of the group).....I know all the tricks of the trade.

[MDork]

ALL the details(rate, price, term and so on) on the contract you signing- just pay attention.

 

dealers also put BS fees and BS paint shield crap on the contract. the problem is...unlike at a restaurant, the slimy finance guy tries to FORCE FEED you CRAP you DONT FREAKING WANT. i dont think ive ever gone to a restaurant where the waitress suggested the pate and then shoved it down my throat after i declined.

 

im not saying all dealers are bad. my experience with bmw was pleasant. my experience with saab was also pleasant. my experience at subaru was horrible. after flying all the way to arizona to pick up the car...the sales dude tries to change the price on me and add a bunch of bogus fees. i was able to remove the fees through rediculous amounts of arguing...the price came back to earth...but the finance dude still tried to eff me over. i have been involved in many new car purchases over the past few years and from my experience, used car lots and low end dealerships employ some of the most unethical people in history. youre complaining about dealers making profit (and what profit is fair). you are forgetting that dealers can choose NOT to sell a car if they are not going to make a profit. it is complete BS to agree on a price and then "backend" (i cant believe you used that term) the customer to slime some money off them. its a broken model and will be replaced by internet sales eventually. dealers will just become factory service centers and control distribution. i dont need a dealer to for anything else. the sales guys never know the cars as well as i do anyway.

[PGT]

its a broken model and will be replaced by internet sales eventually. dealers will just become factory service centers and control distribution. i dont need a dealer to for anything else. the sales guys never know the cars as well as i do anyway.

 

it won't as long as antiquated franchise laws dictate the business. these laws go back to the 1920's and were set up to protect consumers from what became the big three US automakers.

 

I've long held the same belief as your second point - direct factory orders with delivery/distribution locally. Sure, you can still go to the dealer, but there's nothing that says you have to in this model. The thing that keeps this from happening now are the current laws that don't allow car manufacturer's to sell direct. They'd make ALOT more money if they did....

[jagcars26]

OK, you have lost one more bet in you life.

DO not worry , it's no big deal, just don't gamble.

 

And accusing somebody of whining is condescending- not the best way co carry on an intelligent conversation.

 

 

Thats it?? Thats your response ? I'm condescending and unintelligent because I happen to bring up facts that you can't defend??

You know exactly what I'm talking about so don't play word games.I've worked closely with a dealership or two myself so don't try to BS a BSer.

[PhiTauFord]

The service plan was every 7500 mi service (7500, 15000, 22500, etc) up until the 45000 mile service. Reading the manual, theres no way all that stuff could possible add up to $1095.

 

My credit isnt the greatest, so the 'special' subaru rate was 7.9/60 mo, and magically, the outside creditor's rate was 7.9 once I agreed to buy the service plan.

 

I usually try not to piss off people that have all my personal info (especially SSN and all my credit info) but I'm probably just paranoid. Once he started jerking me around and trying to run numbers again, I didn't feel as bad.

 

 

Let me first say that I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did. That being said the regularly scheduled service (such as the 30K service) is expensive. I got a quote just for the 30K service of $570. That's over half of the $1095 you were going to pay for all of your services through 45K miles. There are cheaper alternatives to the dealer doing the serivce. I found a local shop who is doing my 30K service for $350.

 

All I'm saying is that $1095 for all scheduled maintenance through 45K is a good deal unless you plan on doing that kind of service yourself. Still don't think there was anything wrong with what you did.

[PGT]

when my wife sold her WRX, she had to go back to the local dealer (Stohlman) to get a prorated refund on teh extended warranty she bought and never used. She hates dealers already, but they didn't make it easy on her. She'll never buy another extended warranty on a car because of that.

[maestro774]

Let me first say that I don't think there is anything wrong with what you did. That being said the regularly scheduled service (such as the 30K service) is expensive. I got a quote just for the 30K service of $570. That's over half of the $1095 you were going to pay for all of your services through 45K miles. There are cheaper alternatives to the dealer doing the serivce. I found a local shop who is doing my 30K service for $350.

 

All I'm saying is that $1095 for all scheduled maintenance through 45K is a good deal unless you plan on doing that kind of service yourself. Still don't think there was anything wrong with what you did.

 

They quoted my $700, which is way too high. I'll build a relationship with a mechanic that isn't 40 minutes away who's cheaper.

[joeb-z]

The finance guy is your greatest danger spot during the buying transaction. The are universally the pushiest and trickiest salesmen in the place.

 

A few years ago my credit was strained when I bought a house right after finishing law school. I did a nice deal for my wifes truck that included a high interest rate loan. The finance guy tried to kill the deal because he could smell I was going to refinance the loan and screw him/them out of their take. He was right!

 

When I was in law school I represented a client who had been screwed by a dealership. She was being sued for the default on a co-signed loan for her son's car for over $20K. Once I started to prove up all the dealer abuses, they settled and paid her $5K. You would not believe the abuses and crimes of some dealers. Ever seen a loan at 28% interest where a default/repo has you liable for all the interest over the course of the loan? Charge for Lojack and not install it? Salesman use customers employee discount for themselves then lie about getting discount back to customer "in the future". Sell credit insurance for bad health (not covering preexisting conditions) to a woman who can't come to the dealership because of chronic bad health? Notice that almost this nonsense comes from the finance man. The big three auto company (antiquated term) and the dealer were tough but I couldn't get a nickel out of that insurance company. Those tough cockroaches have special laws and, I presume, lobbying in place, at least in Michigan, that makes them pretty much invulnerable

[Boulderguy]

Well said Joeb.

 

Any other industry like this in America is heavily regulated to pretect the consumer from abuse - the car industry, amazingly, isn't.

 

The real estate biz is a very similiar situation, but every state has extensive regulation & oversight of agency, including disclosure laws designed to inform the buyer of their rights & what their money is going towards.

 

Why? B/c there are so many places for a lender or an agent to stick it to a non-industry person that the deck is unfairly stacked. The car sales & finance industry is just the same, but we go up against ppl who write car loans & car deals all day long w/o any clue of how they can write unscrupulous deals.

 

Would you think of going to court w/o an attorney & think you're going to get a fair deal? Would you buy from a real estate seller's agent w/o using a buyer's agent? Of course not - you don't have a chance, you'll get hammered. But that's exactly what happens in the avg car deal.

 

The reason I originally asked what the terms were was to determine what the dealer's angle was, b/c there's always an angle.

[Boulderguy]

The service plan was every 7500 mi service (7500, 15000, 22500, etc) up until the 45000 mile service. Reading the manual, theres no way all that stuff could possible add up to $1095.

 

My credit isnt the greatest, so the 'special' subaru rate was 7.9/60 mo, and magically, the outside creditor's rate was 7.9 once I agreed to buy the service plan.

 

I usually try not to piss off people that have all my personal info (especially SSN and all my credit info) but I'm probably just paranoid. Once he started jerking me around and trying to run numbers again, I didn't feel as bad.

Good decisions. It doesn't sound like a great deal to begin with, and that "magic" interest rate ain't magic at all for a secured loan.

 

Dealers know that most ppl are much less assertive when their personal info, credit rating etc is out in the open & they capitalize on that, that's why the F&I guy can be more aggressive than the sales crew.

 

The best strategy is to walk into the dealer with your financing already in hand from an outside source, then you're not subjected to "approval," which always puts you at a disadvantage.

 

Psychologically when we're asking for that "approval" we feel like we'd better be nice & agree to what they offer. That's frequently taken advantage of.

 

You made the right call.