Metal2You Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Basically, the answer to the original question I had asked is: NO, it will not damage the car. The car will adapt. You may (but most likely will not) notice a decrease in performace, and you may notice a decrease in MPG. Really... 7 pages to say that? Lol... Not exactly. Yes the car will adapt, but you can still do damage. The car will change the timing AFTER a pre-mature detonation, which can damage the engine and certainly will decrease performance. Now I'm off to buy a mansion and put up walls where most of the doors used to be. I'm just going to use the living room to save on heating expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed 2.0 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Ok... well I decided to take a new look at this thread that I started. All I wanted to know was wether or not running less than 91 octane was going to damage my car or not. Wasnt asking if it would hurt performance. Sure I spent a pretty penny on the car but why spend a pretty penny on a higher octane if its all a scam? Basically, the answer to the original question I had asked is: NO, it will not damage the car. The car will adapt. You may (but most likely will not) notice a decrease in performace, and you may notice a decrease in MPG. Really... 7 pages to say that? Lol... Here is a decent article from USA TOday http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-30-premiumgas_x.htm Take your car advice from a journalist at a second-rate paper or the engineers who designed your car. I guess it's your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 What kind of performance loss though? I do not drag race. The speed limit is 65 max! Sure going from 0-60 in 5.2 seconds is great, but doing it in 5.8 seconds is also nice. This car has enough performance for my tastes, so lowering it a tad would really make no diff to me. Now, buying that mansion and only using one room is just silly.. but switching from natural gas to solar power, that would make perfect sense.. even if it meant you could no longer have all the lights on in every room, while every tv is on on and 2 clothes dryers are running at the same time. That is a more sensible comparison IMO. The real debate here is if the knock that causes the sensor to switch up its tuning causes any damage. USA article I read says NO. Others too. The article also made it seem that the engine knocks all the time. The computer is always trying to find a better mix, therefore it tries and tries till it knocks, then it pulls it back a bit. Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 The engineers that designed my car also want me to go to Subaru for every oil change... don't think I'll be doing that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 This is a noob question. If you want to see a noobier question, look up the "soap in the intercooler" threads. They're all longer than this one (which is 3 pages, if you know how to set your forum preferences). Yes, Subaru designed the ECU to accomodate the occasional tank of regular, but running it all the time in a turbocharged vehicle is asking for trouble (which, by the way, the article covers). When your engine craps out and SOA rejects your warranty claim because they test your gas and find you're running 87, don't bitch about it here. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Maybe it is a noob question, but I was not aware this forum was for auto-mechanical-geniuses only. Where should I go with my stupid questions? That's what these forums are for... if this forum is only for people that know all the answers than I will find another forum. The article I referenced mentions that SuperChargers require premium... does this include Turbo engines?? Also, this article was not thought up of by a journalist, it contains citings from many experts. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 The engineers that designed my car also want me to go to Subaru for every oil change... don't think I'll be doing that Actually, the manual says no such thing. It just specifies the weight and grade of oil, oil change interval, and the filter. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Maybe it is a noob question, but I was not aware this forum was for auto-mechanical-geniuses only. Where should I go with my stupid questions? That's what these forums are for... if this forum is only for people that know all the answers than I will find another forum. The article I referenced mentions that SuperChargers require premium... does this include Turbo engines?? Also, this article was not thought up of by a journalist, it contains citings from many experts. Thanks.. No, but your question was asked and answered. Then you pull up a USA Today article as a proof source , fail to read it in detail (paragraph on supercharged needing higher octane gas because of pressurized air), and declare your independence from all the lemmings on this forum to whom you came looking for advice. All I'm saying is that, in the unlikely event that you destroy your motor, please don't come back here and ask why... The only modern engines that should really need premium are those with superchargers, which force-feed fuel into the cylinders. "You're driving along and just tramp the gas and the knock sensor cannot sense the knock fast enough in some cases," because the supercharger boosts pressure so fast, says Bob Furey, chemist and fuels specialist at General Motors. They mess up the detail, of course. Superchargers don't force-feed fuel, they force-feed air. Typical boost pressures run for factory superchargers are in the 4-8 psi range. Our turbos run 13-14 psi stock. So it is even more critical for turbocharged vehicles. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 I didnt mean any offense to anyone. Was just trying to get this answered finally, because every other post here tells a different story. I also didnt realize till today that a supercharge was a turbo, I thought they were two different things. Im no expert, Im a computer programmer. So unless the engine starts talking to me in 1s and 0s, I wont ever understand it! Lol... thanks for helping me out again. One issue I do have however is how rude some people can be about noob-like questions. Im still not sure what this forum is here for if not to help people like me... Thanks again though... sticking with 91+ I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el5y Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I didnt mean any offense to anyone. Was just trying to get this answered finally, because every other post here tells a different story. I also didnt realize till today that a supercharge was a turbo, I thought they were two different things. Im no expert, Im a computer programmer. So unless the engine starts talking to me in 1s and 0s, I wont ever understand it! Lol... thanks for helping me out again. One issue I do have however is how rude some people can be about noob-like questions. Im still not sure what this forum is here for if not to help people like me... Thanks again though... sticking with 91+ I guess... Hello fellow computer geek Supercharger is different from a turbo. Supercharger uses the engine (via pulleys, belts, etc) to build air pressure Turbo uses the exhaust from the engine to build air pressure. The concept is essentially the same. More air pressure, More power. Because there is more air pressure there is also more heat. You have to use a higher octane so the fuel doesn't "pre-detonate". That is, ignite before the cylinder head is at its optimum position in is movement. If it does ignite early you get what is called "knock" which if left to continue (even for short periods of time) will destroy your engine. Hope that helps, Someone with vastly more engine knowledge than me will correct me if I'm wrong. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianspi Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Just to add to the confusion, a turbocharger is a type of supercharger. enough zip ties and duct tape will fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Yah.. I've been using premo, but now that its so expensive, I decided to rethink it again Premium is no more expensive then as it is now. You are still paying ONLY $0.20 per gallon more than regular unleaded. At the most, it is only $3 more per fill up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808LGT Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 our prices at hawaii, like BJ Penn said are pretty high for only 91 octane its up to 4.25 in some places! 60.00 fill up from near empty, but to me thats a small price to pay for turbo powered car! TBH if they sold 93 or 95 octane at all gas stations i would buy all the time! but i think its 5-7.00 for higher octance gas down here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I didnt mean any offense to anyone. Was just trying to get this answered finally, because every other post here tells a different story. I also didnt realize till today that a supercharge was a turbo, I thought they were two different things. Im no expert, Im a computer programmer. So unless the engine starts talking to me in 1s and 0s, I wont ever understand it! Lol... thanks for helping me out again. One issue I do have however is how rude some people can be about noob-like questions. Im still not sure what this forum is here for if not to help people like me... Thanks again though... sticking with 91+ I guess... yeshia, I don't think anyone jumped on you for the original question. It is a reasonable (albeit, noobish) question. You're catching more heat now, because you've come back almost 2 years later and you're throwing all kinds of attitude around. You've had a turbo car for years, and you haven't bothered to learn the fundamentals of how forced induction works. I'm far from an expert on these things relative to many of the folks here, but if I don't know something, I try to educate myself instead of fishing around for an answer that fits my preconceptions. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 You have a lot of serious drivers here, and you're on their 'tarmac'.. Does it mean they should be rude, and insulting? No, but bad basic knowledge and poor maintance of the same car they treat sometime better then a wife/gf is going to piss them off. Some have spent over $15k on their car after purchase, and myself included would murder someone for putting 87 oct in her.. Respect goes both ways.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 At least he didn't get beat up after the first post as badly as this guy: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89019 Oh, and BoozeRS05 - GO WINGS! Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I understand the behavior, I don't condone it. We're all noobs at some point. And DukeTrout, I hate you.. It's salt in the wound at this point when we don't have a goal through two games.. I get physically ill when I think about it.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I thought it was more like 137 minutes, 55 seconds, going all the way back to the previous series... Just call me the salt guy... Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Once again... didnt mean to give the attitude... I was kinda a jerk and Im sorry. Don't hate me... my car needs you... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyBob Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Yeshia - I don't want to beat up on you or anything, but I did notice this gross oversimplification/innacuracy in the USA Today article: Extreme pressure inside the cylinders causes knock, which is the sound of the pistons literally rattling inside the cylinders. Too much too long can damage the engine. A little now and then won't. Perhaps it's a bad choice of words on their part, but if the pistons are rattling inside the cylinder enough to be audible, the car is either burning more oil than gas or your connecting rods are in pieces. The knocking sound is the incorrectly timed explosion fighting against the piston and valves, from what I understand. Plus, excessive pressure leads to only one type of knocking, and *any* type of forced induction engine is much more susceptible to all types of knock due to extra heat and added pressure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 This is more what I wanted. I feel like a dolt, cause all I originally meant to write was for you all to check out that article and see if it jives with what you all think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoozeRS05 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Just call me the salt guy... I wouldn't expect any less from a Wings fan.. EB's Subaru journal - 2005 LegacyGT Wagon & 2014 Forester FB25 (2008 specB - RIP) IG@legacygtliving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 This is more what I wanted. I feel like a dolt, cause all I originally meant to write was for you all to check out that article and see if it jives with what you all think. Live and learn. Shit happens. Don't think anybody here will hold a grudge ... especially over this. There is a lot of information and knowledge on the forum. Members are extremely passionate about their cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I heard that JDM cars like Lancer EVO, WRX STi, Spec.B, etc require unleaded RON 100 which is only available in Japan, but those same cars are also sold in other places unmodified.. Yes indeedy, tuned for 100 octane, can run as low as 95, but they really hate it. 98 is the minimum IMHO, and that's the highest octane you can get in NZ. There was a guy who bought a brand new JDM 08 STi and drove it around a track on 91 octane a month or two ago. His engine commited suicide proper. FYI, the rule of thumb is subtract 2-3 octane from RON, to make it MON, what you get in the states. So i run about "95MON" in my GTB, any lower is suicide at the boost levels i run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeshia Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 98 Octane?? I do not think I have ever even seen that! Most I've ever seen was 94 and that is rare. Is this using octane boosters? Also, one more question relating to Turbos and premium gas. I use to own a 97 Audi A4 turbo 4 cyl. The manual said that it required 89 Octane or better. Is this cause it's an older turbo and ran at lower pressure than the Legacy turbos? Thanks again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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