Just installed Megan Racing headers...

[Boostjunkie]

That's nice, but all of those headers are not much, if any better made. Certainly not enough to justify a price tag 4 times higher. I do really like the APS equal length header. It also cost about $1000, but at least it is made from 321 stainless. Otherwise all you are really buying is the name. You guys might think I'm a bit biased, and maybe I am, but 4 TIMES more money for the same 304 stainless...

[crash]

That's nice, but all of those headers are not much, if any better made. Certainly not enough to justify a price tag 4 times higher. I do really like the APS equal length header. It also cost about $1000, but at least it is made from 321 stainless. Otherwise all you are really buying is the name. You guys might think I'm a bit biased, and maybe I am, but 4 TIMES more money for the same 304 stainless...

I hear ya BoostJunkie!

 

I feel the same way about tires.

 

I don't mind paying 60% less for the Kumho that has 95% of the grip of a Hoosier

[CasopoliS]

Certainly not enough to justify a price tag 4 times higher.

 

I agree with that.

[Xenonk]

it's not just that, it's the length of the runners, the diameter sizing, volumetric efficiency, and the engineering that went with it. There's such effect called reversion that we should all think about if we are seriously looking into getting power out of the exhaust, otherwise, why mod it? Not every header looks into this kind of work, especially those inline 4 turbo guys with their cast turbo-manifolds that spend a lot of hours developing the correct fitment not to mention the right amount of volume, flow, gas velocities, and sonic and thermal pulse to give a good reason why anyone should spend the money for the upgrade.

 

if you really want to think about it, you can buy yourself a 2" pipe bender, weld a few pieces together and make your own manifold for a fair price.. will it work? sure. How good? Depends on how you see it. So when you think about the engineering that went into a piece, the price could reflect that kind of work. I mean, look at the crazy price we all see in forged wheels for example vs cast. Sure the functionality is there, but how good? Just take some time and compare what you are really looking into here. Unfortunately I dont have enough background knowledge in air flow and thermal dynamics and the sort to show you what kind of manifold that is ideal base on the conditions that we have as a motor and turbo.

[Boostjunkie]

I agree with that 100%. However, while I have not dynoed the MR header, it has been proven by other to make some nice hp/tq gains. Ultimately that is what people buying performance parts are looking for. Feel free to spend your money on JDM bling. I'll take my saving to the bank or use it to improve other areas of my car.

[Boostjunkie]

I hear ya BoostJunkie!

 

I feel the same way about tires.

 

I don't mind paying 60% less for the Kumho that has 95% of the grip of a Hoosier

 

Guess what kind of tires are on my car? Kumhos!

 

Boostjunkie = cheap azzzz mofo!

[Xenonk]

I hear ya BoostJunkie!

 

I feel the same way about tires.

 

I don't mind paying 60% less for the Kumho that has 95% of the grip of a Hoosier

 

I dont think V710s are that much cheaper than the Hoosier A6 But I see your point. The one thing that people would look for is that 5% difference that will make them win or just outright be better than the next person consistently, it's not always the price tag, but rather reaching a particular goal, regardless if it's performance or just bragging rights.

 

Afterall, we are looking at self satisfaction here.. if the wallet is more of a concern than having the actual part, then by all means, that makes you 100% happy. But some people just want the flat-out performance as their priority first, so in my case, I would certainly be 100% happy running a Hoosier because it gives me 100% that I want.. it's also known that it's 5% better than the Kumho

[CasopoliS]

headers pretty much add flow and that is it....

 

you want your headers to flow extremely well and have little turbulace built, and you want them to retain heat to keep the gases flowing well.

 

The cast pieces work well because they somewhat provide both of this.

 

The stainless pieces help flow but lose heat... that pretty much decreases the ability to make quick power because the air can flow better but now it is cooler and you are back to step 1. Not to mention you are cycling heat at MUCH faster rates which is bad for many reasons.

 

You want your transitions and bends VERY smooth to aid with flow. Then you want to wrap the stainless in a very good wrap.. like the copper stuff. Then spray - then foil. Keep the heat while adding flow.

 

If it were up to me...

I would hook up blowers to the headers and measure CFM output dynamically (that is as a function of time rather than a static value). I would do this with stock headers. Then I would make what I feel to be an improved flow design and perform the same test. If your CFM is higher, but not smooth and consistent... you have gone backwards. If your CFM 'noise' decreases... you have gone forward. I would take that design and ceramic coat it, then wrap it. Then I would put heatsheilds on it to keep the engine cool while keeping the headers hot.

[LittleBlueGT]

it's not just that, it's the length of the runners, the diameter sizing, volumetric efficiency, and the engineering that went with it. There's such effect called reversion that we should all think about if we are seriously looking into getting power out of the exhaust, otherwise, why mod it? Not every header looks into this kind of work, especially those inline 4 turbo guys with their cast turbo-manifolds that spend a lot of hours developing the correct fitment not to mention the right amount of volume, flow, gas velocities, and sonic and thermal pulse to give a good reason why anyone should spend the money for the upgrade.

 

if you really want to think about it, you can buy yourself a 2" pipe bender, weld a few pieces together and make your own manifold for a fair price.. will it work? sure. How good? Depends on how you see it. So when you think about the engineering that went into a piece, the price could reflect that kind of work. I mean, look at the crazy price we all see in forged wheels for example vs cast. Sure the functionality is there, but how good? Just take some time and compare what you are really looking into here. Unfortunately I dont have enough background knowledge in air flow and thermal dynamics and the sort to show you what kind of manifold that is ideal base on the conditions that we have as a motor and turbo.

 

I agree, it all depends on your goals.

 

I don't mind spending more for a product that will last longer and have better performance over a broader RPM range. Diminishing returns.

 

If you want the real good stuff somebody has to pay for the R&D.

[Boostjunkie]

But I see your point. The one thing that people would look for is that 5% difference that will make them win or just outright be better than the next person consistently, it's not always the price tag, but rather reaching a particular goal, regardless if it's performance or just bragging rights.

 

Afterall, we are looking at self satisfaction here.. if the wallet is more of a concern than having the actual part, then by all means, that makes you 100% happy.

 

 

Do you honestly believe that if you spend more you will get a better product all of the time? That is naive at best and idiotic at worst. Quality products come in all shapes and sizes and while I agree that R&D costs money, don't be so quick to assume that just because a product is expensive that it has lots sunk into R&D.

 

For instance, the Megan Racing LGT catback has been though numerous revisions and prototypes, and is the only catback available for the LGT that has been dyno proven. The final pricing will be what we promised even when the development process was assumed to be fairly straightforward. It will still be the least expensive catback on the market and is PROVEN to make more power and improve spool-up. Add in quality construction and good looks and I can't think of a lot more than you could be looking for.

 

Show me a blinging JDM exhaust product that is dyno proven, with the part being the ONLY mod and making more power than some more reasonably priced products and I'll eat crow. I highly doubt that you will find that kind of info. In the mean time go ahead and drink the JDM Kool-Aid. I think having a faster car while having spent less money is all the satisfaction I need.

[LittleBlueGT]

Do you honestly believe that if you spend more you will get a better product all of the time? That is naive at best and idiotic at worst. Quality products come in all shapes and sizes and while I agree that R&D costs money, don't be so quick to assume that just because a product is expensive that it has lots sunk into R&D.

 

For instance, the Megan Racing LGT catback has been though numerous revisions and prototypes, and is the only catback available for the LGT that has been dyno proven. The final pricing will be what we promised even when the development process was assumed to be fairly straightforward. It will still be the least expensive catback on the market and is PROVEN to make more power and improve spool-up. Add in quality construction and good looks and I can't think of a lot more than you could be looking for.

 

Show me a blinging JDM exhaust product that is dyno proven, with the part being the ONLY mod and making more power than some more reasonably priced products and I'll eat crow. I highly doubt that you will find that kind of info. In the mean time go ahead and drink the JDM Kool-Aid. I think having a faster car while having spent less money is all the satisfaction I need.

 

Take it easy, not knocking your product. I may buy one some day. Many things are over-priced. Better stuff is available though. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual. I think MR has a very large market potential because it has very good value. I just don't think it is the best stuff out there.

[CreoSTi]

Well, it comes down to our individual Willingness To Pay." I'll readily admit that I heart JDM Bling.

 

...even if I do have coated MadDad headers/uppipe...

 

-Mike-

[Boostjunkie]

Take it easy, not knocking your product. I may buy one some day. Many things are over-priced. Better stuff is available though. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual. I think MR has a very large market potential because it has very good value. I just don't think it is the best stuff out there.

 

No offense taken, and my post wasn't directed at you anyways. I am certainly not suggesting that the MR stuff is the best stuff available in the world. I am sure that there are better offerings out there, just none with a performance/price ratio like the MR stuff. I'm comfortable with that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I happen to have a taste for "name brand" stuff too. My cheap Kumho tires are wrapped around pricey forged BBS wheels. I also sprung for teh JDM bling of a twinscroll turbo setup. However, I do not thumb my nose at cheaper products that will do the job as well. Some people dismiss stuff as being worthless just because it isn't the most expensive available. That is the kind of attitude that bothers me.

[TSiWRX]

However, I do not thumb my nose at cheaper products that will do the job as well. Some people dismiss stuff as being worthless just because it isn't the most expensive available. That is the kind of attitude that bothers me.

 

^ Agreed.

 

After all, we're all driving "just" Subarus --- according, of course, to the AMG guys.

 

I don't think that brother Keefe was trying to say, particularly, anything bad - just pointing out that some other products may have taken some other engineering considerations into account. Could they be tailored to offer more increases in specific parts of the powerband - or even throughout - over and above the Megan product? Possible - but one will certainly be paying quite the premium for, as brother LittleBlueGT cited, diminishing returns.

 

Quantitatively, from data available so far, there's simply no denying that the Megan products are both well-made as well as will return with gains - especially when price is added to the mix.

 

Every product is a compromise of some form or another.

 

Like the old saying goes, choose two:

 

(1) A good job.

(2) A fast job.

(3) A cheap job.

 

You ain't ever gonna get all three in one boat. Twist the words around a little, and the same can be said of pieces of hardware, too.

 

Sure, the Megan product may not come with heat-shields/coating or may not wring every last ounce of power possible out of our engines. But for the price, it's made well and of good material stock, and it is proven to offer gains in areas which can well-suit those pursuing specific goals.

 

Based on this, if there weren't enough R&D bucks to "optimize" the system or if the marketing guys saw that adding further features such as heat-shields, etc., might bump the item's cost above what they deemed to be an acceptable selling point .... well, I honestly cannot fault their reasoning much at all.

[FlyingLow]

Wow, great exposure for this product. I really think everyone is right here... yes, these headers/upipe are not the best out there, they are made for the guy like myself who wants to upgrade the stock parts on the car but not kill the wallet at the same time. I know for darn sure that there are better headers out there that have more efficient flow characteristics and thermal properties but I really don't feel like spending 2x or 3x or EVEN 4x the price for something that a shadetree mechanic like myself won't really realize. I saw I could buy a Cobb upipe (or really any other) for say $200-300 or whatever it may be or I can get one built into a set of headers for the same price...and I get headers to boot! For me, I say why not give it a go? If it doesn't work out then at least I gave it a shot, took some pics, and started a productive discussion about it here to help others .

 

So back to my affairs with the oil leak... I picked my car up yesterday from Langston and the manager said it took the guy like 6 or so hours to get the job done ....ONE valve cover gasket......6 hours?!?!?!? Thankfully he only charged me 3 hours and I came out a little more broke but oh well, at least my hoodscoop is no longer acting like a chimney. Now with that extra power on the highway I need to lighten up my right foot because it's just way too easy to stay in that passing lane...

[coolbluelb]

So now that you have had the car back for a few days with the new headers, what are your impressions? This is something I had been considering, but have recently given second thoughts to. I would like to hear your personal pros/cons if you have any.

[KartRacerBoy]

Yup. I'm interested too but the pics of the installed header give me pause. Afraid of heat soak and the cost coating and wrapping the headers (for unknowable effectiveness) takes this mod out of the ballpark I want to pay to replace my leaking Perrin UP

[Xenonk]

Do you honestly believe that if you spend more you will get a better product all of the time? That is naive at best and idiotic at worst. Quality products come in all shapes and sizes and while I agree that R&D costs money, don't be so quick to assume that just because a product is expensive that it has lots sunk into R&D.

 

I hear ya on that. A good example would be a set of 24" fashionable rims (Expensive? Yes. Good R&D? Hell No). I have found very little reason why I even need a BBK on my car as it's been hard for me to justify the performance gain I get over stock brakes. You also have to remember that the price was reflected on the cost of production by volume as well. Sure, if a company can sell a billion more of these products, then you can certainly see that they can profit by the number of sales, not just a huge profit in one sale.

 

But as the product is more definitive to serve a single purpose, it's going to be hard to sell to such a broad market. While I did name some pretty expensive parts, the companies that made these parts do have a good reputation in creating very well R&D parts. There will be a time when a company will use their reputable name to raise the price, but that's within their own right as it's their way of putting a value on themselves. It's obvious that it's hard to find good quality to begin with, but when you do, are you willing to pay for what the product represents?

[Xenonk]

Don't get me wrong, I happen to have a taste for "name brand" stuff too. My cheap Kumho tires are wrapped around pricey forged BBS wheels. I also sprung for teh JDM bling of a twinscroll turbo setup. However, I do not thumb my nose at cheaper products that will do the job as well. Some people dismiss stuff as being worthless just because it isn't the most expensive available. That is the kind of attitude that bothers me.

 

it's understood. My point was that even OEM parts (possibly being cheaper than some of the aftermarket counterparts, like brake rotors for our cars is a good example) could perform just as well with very small margin in performance difference. Im not saying that MR is cheap, but the question is it really that much better than stock to justify the means of getting it? Are you getting the best-bang-for-the-buck? That's just the similar way to look at it from the stand point of comparing something that is medium priced product to an expensive one and seeing if the ratio from dollars-to-performance is proportional. I was just pointing out the other end of the spectrum [OEM parts].

 

I can understand the justification at the end as we all just mod the cars the way we want it, because at the end, some of use really dont care how we end up spending the money on the car, we enjoy our own cars because it makes us happy because we are paying for what we all invidually want out of our own cars.

[Boostjunkie]

Yup. I'm interested too but the pics of the installed header give me pause. Afraid of heat soak and the cost coating and wrapping the headers (for unknowable effectiveness) takes this mod out of the ballpark I want to pay to replace my leaking Perrin UP

 

I am trying to work out a deal for coating on the headers. Might very well come out to around $100 per set. So even with the coating you might be looking at under $350 shipped.

 

I previously ran QTP headers (ceramic coated) on my car, and experienced no heat soak or melting problems. There are a couple guys with the MR header on their cars now who are running it uncoated and do not seem to be experiencing any heat related problems (or any other problems for that matter).

[dolomiteME]

Just to add my $.02, though a bit late, just because it's a JDM product and carries a hefty price tag does not mean it will work better and/or last longer. Case in point, the set of Flatt Racing headers I installed on my '04 rex. Had them fully taped up, sprayed and covered with thermal blanket in areas close to the block. None of this stopped them from cracking at the welds on the 4 to 1 after only 2 years....

[crash]

FWIW, spraying, taping and wrapping headers will actually make the welds crack by trapping in so much heat.

[bugblatterbeast]

I'd be more worried about the lack of slip joints on the pipes running from the driver side to the collector. 304 expands quite a bit compared to cast. The gruppe-s headers I'm using slip nearly 1/8" (eyeballed) between cold and hot and these seem to have a similar layout.