Stock Brake Performance

[GuitarMan]

Hi Legacy Lovers

 

I am new to this forum and a recent Legacy GT convert. After having some of the most exhilirating driving experiences with an 05 GT 5spd, I am now shopping for one of these awesome machines.

 

I have found an 05 GT Ltd 5spd locally but there are some mechanical problems, which to me, are indicative of abuse. This car has 35K miles ands needs a new clutch and brakes I believe.

 

The clutch is easy, if it smokes and slips it's toast

 

The brakes, well that's another story. here are the braking symptoms:

 

- Good brake performance around town and low highway speeds

 

- Once you start cranking up the car on the highway say 100mph+ and use the brakes they are good for one hard brake application every 4-5 minutes. Use them any more often and there is huge fade (50%+) and excessive front end vibration - like sitting on a vibrating bed.

 

Now I'm being told that this is normal which I find difficult to accept as I have driven many vehicles at high speed and have not had these problems when braking. experience includes 5.0 mustangs, WRX's, VW's, Audi's, heck even my 4 ton Dodge Dually cummins pick up stops better at high speed.

 

given the symptoms, I am of the opinion that this car was either on the track a lot or the previous owner just drove too fast and braked too hard on a regular basis.

 

It seems that front rotors have been overheated and heat damaged. The brakes feel fine around the city but are not confidence inspiring once they heat up. They are obviously warping under heat.

 

For those of you that bought these cars new, did you notice similarly poor braking performance? I really doubt it....

 

the car has been to a Subaru dealer who swears that the brakes are fine...

 

I posted in this forum and the susp./brake one as well in hopes of getting a quick reply. Thanks

 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

 

Thanks for the awesome forum

[mblazder]

My brakes don't act like that.

Then again i don't usually crank the car up to 100+ mph and brake hard many times in a row...

[GuitarMan]

Thanks Mblazder

 

I noticed these problems after braking once to go from 100mph down to about 60mph. I cranked the car back up to 100mph and did the same thing a few minutes after and got huge fade and vibration.

 

I realize that stock brakes aren't going to do well in a race application where you need to brake hard every 30 seconds or so.

 

My gut feel says that this car has been driven hard on a track and the brakes severely overheated and thus their ability to brake hard at speed has been compromised.

 

Has anyone noticed similar behaviour?

[sutter2k]

Stock rotors are actually a pretty good size compared to several other cars. Stock pads however are like bars of soap for high speed braking. Decent for 0-60, but for multiple 100-0 you need something else.

 

What do you the rotors look like? Is the surface uneven at all?

Its possible the rotors are warped. However, its more often excess pad material.

see StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

[Guest]

This is absolutely not normal, vibration wise. I took my car to 130+ mph speeds many times and under hard braking the breaks are behave smoothly and vibration free. As far as fading is concerned, can't comment, never did many hard stops in short time.

 

However, LGT pads are notorious for leaving deposits on the rotors. Now I get faint shaking under light breaking at speeds 60-70 mph. One or two hard brake applications should get rid of the deposits.

 

By recommendation on this board, I ordered an aftermarket (Endless SS-M) pads. Any good aftermarket pads will do.

 

However LGT you test drove might a really bad case of pad deposits or even warped rotors. People say once the deposit etch deeply in the rotors you can't get the off without resurfacing.

 

35K is just before end of the warranty. Try to get both brakes and clutch done under warranty, both are covered, but if the car was abused they may not honor the claim.

[Guest]

n/m

[robinlsb]

First of all, the brake rotors are not warped, they have deposits on them. Second, the stock LGT front rotors look nice but they just don't seem to disipate heat well.

 

If you are going to continue 100-zero stops you need:

 

Stoptech rotors

Better brake pads

SS lines

Better brake fluid

The car won't stop better but at least you can address the fade problem.

 

The LGT brakes are a weak point of this machine.

[Xenonk]

Thanks Mblazder

 

I noticed these problems after braking once to go from 100mph down to about 60mph. I cranked the car back up to 100mph and did the same thing a few minutes after and got huge fade and vibration.

 

I realize that stock brakes aren't going to do well in a race application where you need to brake hard every 30 seconds or so.

 

My gut feel says that this car has been driven hard on a track and the brakes severely overheated and thus their ability to brake hard at speed has been compromised.

 

Has anyone noticed similar behaviour?

 

 

1) stock pads suck in general

2) car is heavy (+3500 lbs) and combination of lousy stock pads = fade

3) flush your brake fluid, it's due for a flush with 30,000 miles on the clock

4) for "race" applications, I have had good feed back and success with the stock rotors and calipers.. it's the brake pads, fluid and tires that lack the performance

5) not sure if the car is tracked, but at 30,000 miles, that stock brake fluid is probably filled with moisture of some sort, so it's time for a flush.. check the rotors for any slight warpage, at 30,000 miles, it might be due to check the thickness of the rotor to see if it needs a replacement.

 

hope that answers all your questions.

[GuitarMan]

Thanks for all the help guys. I had not considered it could just be shitty pads leaving deposits on the the rotors. That is certainly not as huge a deal as warped rotors.

 

I did not examine the rotors too closely as I assumed that the dealer would confirm brake problems straight away - I wasn't expecting to be told that this behaviour is normal....

[GuitarMan]

Guys, In the event that there are pad deposits on the rotors can they be fixed (machined) or must they be replaced?

[Xenonk]

Guys, In the event that there are pad deposits on the rotors can they be fixed (machined) or must they be replaced?

 

I just brake harder normally people just get them turned/resurfaced.

[OBieXT]

Also, I've seen a lot of people complaining about the stock clutch on this forum. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find plenty. So...I wouldn't take the need for a clutch as an indication that the car had been abused.

[team23jordan]

if you ever need a new clutch

talk to Rob from Maryland Turbo Solution (vendor here)

he has several clutches that you can choose from

and has the best price.. check his group buy that's goin on right now!

[team23jordan]

i'm gonna change my brake fluid soon

i'm at 28000 miles...

i'll probably change it with super blue..

[magnetic1]

you have many choices for street pads including the Endless and Carbotech (Hawk soon), but if youre going to take it on track, you need track pads. Any one of the high performance street pads just wont cut it on track.

[Xenonk]

i'm gonna change my brake fluid soon

i'm at 28000 miles...

i'll probably change it with super blue..

 

skip super blue, it just absorbs more moisture than the Motul 600 I have been using.. just pay the extra $10 difference (I think? ask Eric at http://www.Brakeswap.com , he can get you a good price on that)..

 

I am running Brakeswap's new stash of "secret weapons" Prospeed GS610 brake fluid.. and the pedal feel is less mushy than the Super ATE by far for some reason and better than the Motul 600.. today's technology in fluid dynamics is pretty cool and without breaking your wallet for some Castrol SRF, the Prospeed is a great comprimise for performance and by specs, it absorbs less moisture than the Motul 600 by a good bit.. less needs to flush even with multiple track weekends.

[caramall2]

Just my story. Had problems (vibration). Tried firm braking, etc, to remove deposits but nothing helped. Went to put on new SS-M pads at 30k miles so had rotors resurfaced.

 

After resurfacing and SS-Ms, was still vibrating...I think even worse.

 

Dealer replaced rotors under warrantee. Now no problems braking at higher speeds. Very smooth (except under 10 mph because the pads apparently can take several hundred miles to bed in properly).

 

Bottom line, in this case it was warped rotors (perhaps the deposits added to the problem, but the rotors were still warped).