godwhomismike Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I am really thrilled about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I am really thrilled about this Hell yeah. Me too. The more diesel options the better, not that I hate gas or anything. Americans have been sold short for decades compared to European offerings. I think the last figure was that about 50% of their cars were diesel. We've probably been glutons with cheap gas and a big sprawling country - givens. But why have manufacturers been so damned stingy with the diesels until now? I'm a Chevy nut tried and true. I dirve a K1500 Suburban with a 350. The new Tahoe/Sub/Escalade/Yukon/XL lines are really hot! Big improvements in all ways. However, they screwed us again with the lack of diesel powerplants. The last diesel Sub hasn't been since 1999!!!! GM needs to put like a turbo diesel 305 - 327 in these bad boys and I'd buy right away. I think 6.6L Duramax is the bomb but overkill for a 1/2 ton truck. Anyway, I'm babbling. But the point is, DCX is doing the right thing with the awesome decision to roll out the turbodiesel Jeeps. ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I'd go for an F-150 if they could shoehorn the Powerstroke in there. That truck with that engine would be awesome. http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I wonder how much that engine can be modded. Imagine 325 hp and 560 lb ft of torque Startech Adds Twinkle to Jeep and Chrysler Turbodiesels in Europe 262 hp and 428 lb-ft of torque http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=115713 http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 And 376 ft/lbs torque as low as 1600 RPM... Diesels aren't about horsepower... Exactly!!!! Hehehehehheeheh Not about horsepower at all.... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 Another thing I may add... When I still had my S4, I took it for an oil change once and had a loaner car, I insisted on having the Touareg V10 TDI (VW and AUDI dealer combination), and I drove it for 24 hours.... Two words for it: Really impressive!!!!! 310ho @3750 and 553 lbft @2000!!!! The punch was just incredible, on a huuuuuge and 7700 lb automobile.... 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI First Drive by Dan Lyons http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/clear.gif http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/400/5.Touareg_V10_TDI_front3.jpg http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/1.Touareg_V10_interior2.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI Related Links Get Pricing Get E-mail Updates Consumer Ratings Vehicle Reviews Send a Letter Talk About It http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/2.Touareg_V10_interior1.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. Leather, burled walnut and brushed aluminum trim add some flavor to a generally conservative palette. http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/3.Touareg_V10_detail2.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. Full size spare option is coming soon for all Touaregs. Price is expected to be around $1,200. It offers a clean look for the rear end but like all outboard carriers, cuts down on your straight back visibility. Related Links Get Pricing Get E-mail Updates Consumer Ratings Vehicle Reviews Send a Letter Talk About It http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/10.Touareg_V10_rear2.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. Touareg does double duty as well as any SUV or hybrid we've driven. http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/6.Touareg_V10_TDI_engine.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. Touareg's late season addition packs a wallop. V10 TDI makes 310 hp, 553 lb. ft. of torque. Related Links Get Pricing Get E-mail Updates Consumer Ratings Vehicle Reviews Send a Letter Talk About It http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/9.Touareg_V10_rear1.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. Off-road, the Touareg will tackle trails that would give misgivings to a mountain goat. http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/www.autobytel.com/images/carPics/TestDrv/Lyons/165/8.Touareg_V10_TDI_front2.jpg 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI. The TDI adds unlimited torque into the equation, which essentially leaves you with a hardy off-roader with tons of tractive force. Touareg made a lot of noise when it arrived on the scene in 2003. Introduced last year as an early 2004 model, Volkswagen's SUV/Station Wagon hybrid spent a lot of time since its debut taking bows and picking up awards. Two engines were offered at roll-out, with the promise of a third, monster mill, waiting in the wings. It's here, at mid-model year, with the introduction of the Touareg V10 TDI. Outside Little distinguishes the heavy metal Touareg from its line mates. Touareg looks like what it is: a cleanly styled, four wheel drive wagon. The lines are smooth and simple. Look closer and you see clues to its off road prowess: the nose and tail tucked neatly underneath, the gap between tire top and wheel well. The lift gate has a discrete reference to the powertrain within: a simple V10 TDI callout on the lower right. Back views on some Touaregs (V10 or otherwise) may soon show a new look. Select the full size spare instead of the inflatable and you get an outside tire carrier that swings away for access to the cargo bay. It costs about $1,200 and looks classy, though the rising moon profile in the backlight will chip a little of your rear view off. VW says this option will hit the streets in the next month or so. Inside Touareg TDI is unchanged in the cabin. Leather, burled walnut and brushed aluminum trim add some flavor to a generally conservative palette. There's adult sized room front and back, storage for items big and small. Main controls and switchgear are easy to operate. Off-roaders will want to spend a little quality time with the manual for the adjustable suspension and height settings, but for most people, they're set and forget. Most often used in this array are the suspension stiffness settings. They range from comfort to automatic to sport and are simply set with the roll of a thumbwheel. The navigation system works well, once you learn the input drill. No third row seat is offered, leaving lots of storage room in back. Cargo capacity ranges from 31 to 71 cubic feet, depending on how many seats you fold. Functional Need to yank your house off its foundation? Your engine is waiting. The twin turbocharged V10 employs VW's new "Pumpe Duse" technology. Designed in collaboration with Bosch, the direct injection diesel uses unit injectors, located in each cylinder, for fuel delivery. The advantage of this approach is high fuel pressure. High pressure makes for a finer spray, which in turn leads to more efficient combustion. Better combustion yields more power, improved fuel economy and less noise. TDI is "biturbo" - a separate turbocharger provides combustion air for each bank of five cylinders. A charge-air intercooler and intercoolers in the exhaust gas recirculation lines boost efficiency. A Bosch designed electronic diesel management system coordinates the action. The V10 TDI has big stats: 310 hp @ 3,750 rpm, and a stump-pulling 553 lb. ft. of torque @ 2,000 rpm. A new six speed automatic transmission with Tiptronic shifter was designed to stand up to the massive muscle and channel it to the tires. A hydrodynamic torque converter with lockup minimizes power transfer loss and intelligent gearing of the six speed maximizes the match between the engine's power and the pavement. Towing capacity is a healthy 7,716 lb. The diesel engine is for sale in 45 states currently - not for sale in New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont and California. Impressions Touareg does double duty as well as any SUV or hybrid we've driven. VW's 4XMOTION platform provides full-time, four wheel drive. Adaptive torque distribution automatically controls the amount of torque transfer between front and rear wheels. Drivers select from 6 possible ride heights and three suspension damping settings. Off-road, the Touareg will tackle trails that would give misgivings to a mountain goat. Robust approach and departure angles (33 degrees), a maximum ground clearance of 11.8" and fording depth of 22.8" hint at Touareg's impressive rock 'n roll capabilities. On road, Touareg's suspension combines a double wishbone up front with independent four-link out back for a comfortably smooth ride. The TDI adds unlimited torque into the equation, which essentially leaves you with a hardy off-roader with tons of tractive force. The Uber Diesel takes its place at the top of a three engine platform for Touareg, joining the 220 hp V6 and the 310 hp V8. V6 Touareg gets from 0-60 in 9.4 seconds; V8 models make the trip in 7.6 seconds. Touareg TDI is quick enough to turn a 7.5 second 0-60 time, with a top end of 130 mph. EPA rates its mileage potential at 17 mpg's city and 23 highway. Mild vibration and engine chatter at idle offer telltale reminders that you're in a diesel, but these disappear under way. At speed the V10 actually seems quieter than the V8. The power advantage of the big motor is felt at low and mid range. Above that, it's hard to distinguish from the other VW mills. If the V10's massive grunt appeals, you best act fast. VW only plans on importing 443 units into the U.S. this year. Frequently Asked Questions What's the advantage of the V10? Power, principally. The diesel means lots of low end power for off-roaders, and plenty of pull for those who tow. The TDI is rated to pull 7,716 lb. When and where does the V10 TDI go on sale ? Now - in 45 states. Not - in five states: California, New York, Vermont, Maine and Massachusetts. It is not expected that the diesel will be available in these states in the near future. Why buy the TDI? Capacity and exclusivity. Few vehicles can match the Touareg TDI's combination of towing and off-road capacity in a package this size. And VW plans to import under 500 units for this year. 2004 Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI Reviewer's Notes MSRP: $57,800 Destination: $650 As tested: $58,415 Plus: V10 adds massive power boost to versatile Touareg Minus: You pay for your power: $57,800 V10 TDI compares with $35,900 for a base, V6 model. 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Tommyh Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 <----Tommy, likey da diesel Powa!! While I'm very happy to see more diesel powered options I A) am disapointed in the lack of VW diesels B) want to see the more bio-diesel pumps C) want my next car to be a Subaru wagon with a diesel and manual trans. Martin Luther - "Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long." EL4NFZT7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 11, 2006 Author Share Posted June 11, 2006 <----Tommy, likey da diesel Powa!! While I'm very happy to see more diesel powered options I A) am disapointed in the lack of VW diesels B) want to see the more bio-diesel pumps C) want my next car to be a Subaru wagon with a diesel and manual trans. Yeah me too man.... I wish we had a Legacy 1.8 Turbo Diesel AWD, wich made 50+ mpg, so that we could use it as a commuter car... We can just hope for it.... I read somewhere that Subaru was developing a future Turbo Diesel hybrid engine for our cars, but it's just speculation..... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidMonk Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 LOL! Not to insult you, but this is an uneducated comment. HP is a function of Torque over time. At 5250 RPM, HP actually will equal Torque. Torque is actually what moves your car. The Torque on a Turbo Diesel will typically be way, way higher then peak HP. Take a look at the Torque curve on a Cummins Dodge Pickup, Duramax Diesel, or a Ford Powerstroke. Any of those pickups could probably drag an LGT (e-brakes and trannie locked) up a steep incline without sweating a drop. For that matter, take a look at the torque a CRD Liberty makes. Turbodiesels are SOOOO strong down in the low RPM range, they can move mountains. I am quite aware of the relationship between torque and HP. I've seen plenty of dynos too. To say that torque moves the car and engine power is irrelevant when also preaching about how the two are mathmatically interrelated is an interesting contradiction - one might even call it uneducated. LOL. Diesels have high torque and low HP because they cannot maintain torque at high revs. Since they cannot rev, they require much taller gears - which completely offset their torque advantage for everything but towing. They are better at towing, but only because they achieve better torque at extremely low RPMs to get the load moving. Sure a diesel is strong off the line, but boy does it fade fast. The CRD Liberty diesel is slooooowwww. We are talking slower than a 108hp Scion xA. It can't even break a 75mph trap speed with the added benefit of a 5-speed automatic to better distribute it's phenominal torque. At least you have a leisurely 17+ seconds to think about how fast it felt for the first two. So now you put a slightly more powerful diesel in a much larger Grand Cherokee, and it is suddenly supposed to be fast? Yeah. I want whatever you are smoking. I like diesels. However, this engine is severly underpowered for a vehicle the size of a Grand Cherokee. It would be a great replacement for the CRD Liberty you mentioned, though. This Grand Cherokee will be slow . . . way slow . . . which is the only point I was making in my first post. I guess the H3 will finally have something to race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I am quite aware of the relationship between torque and HP. I've seen plenty of dynos too. To say that torque moves the car and engine power is irrelevant when also preaching about how the two are mathmatically interrelated is an interesting contradiction - one might even call it uneducated. LOL. I have never stated they're irrelevent - your words, not mine. Please don't make things up out of the blue. Please point to the post where I stated they're not related. Diesels have high torque and low HP because they cannot maintain torque at high revs. Since they cannot rev, they require much taller gears - which completely offset their torque advantage for everything but towing. They are better at towing, but only because they achieve better torque at extremely low RPMs to get the load moving. And conversely, most (smaller) gas engines have relatively low "power" and torque at low revs and fall off at their own high RPM range. Here, you've got your terminology all mixed up. A lot of diesel trucks (and small gas engines for that matter) will have shorter (numerically higher) final drive rations not taller. Those "shorter" gears, do not offset their lower RPM torque advantage. Just the opposite, they exploit it by multiplying torque - most often for stump pulling, hill climbing, towing, moving a 80,000lb tank, etc. Most diesels are not designed to rev as high as their comparable gas counterparts. If you want some proof of all this, Google Audi R10 or Banks Sidewinder Pickup. Look at their power and torque numbers. Sure a diesel is strong off the line, but boy does it fade fast. True. However, they generally have a lower RPM band. That can be interpretted in different ways. "Fading Fast?" - maybe, maybe not. If you want to use that argument, you can say that small turbo engines fade early and come on strong mid to high revs. Perhaps you're not accustomed to that turbo-diesel curve - not sure. The CRD Liberty diesel is slooooowwww. We are talking slower than a 108hp Scion xA. It can't even break a 75mph trap speed with the added benefit of a 5-speed automatic to better distribute it's phenominal torque. At least you have a leisurely 17+ seconds to think about how fast it felt for the first two. Slow is a relative term buddy and you're tossing around subjective unsubstantiated comments like wildfire. It "ain't" no LGT or even HEMI Ram for that matter. That's for sure. I wouldn't call a 17 second SUV quarter-mile a dog even though it won't win any races. Normal or adequate is more appropriate in comparison. It's not built to keep up with the 911s of the world. To prove how subjective your comment is, the V6 liberty is only 2/10ths of second faster (16.9 seconds) - hardly a blowout - 2 carlengths maybe. So now you put a slightly more powerful diesel in a much larger Grand Cherokee, and it is suddenly supposed to be fast? Yeah. I want whatever you are smoking. You appear to be basing the term "powerful" on peak HP and that's a bit silly. I'll take a flat torque curve daily driver any day over a peaky rev-happy screaming chicken (no reference to Firebirds). My smoking days are long behind me. I'm speaking factually. It is not much larger. The weight difference is minimal. Look at the numbers on Jeep's site. I like diesels. However, this engine is severly underpowered for a vehicle the size of a Grand Cherokee. It would be a great replacement for the CRD Liberty you mentioned, though. This Grand Cherokee will be slow . . . way slow . . . which is the only point I was making in my first post. I guess the H3 will finally have something to race. ROFL. Since when is 376 lb-ft of torque "severly underpowered" in your words? Let's wait and see is about all I can say since that number doesn't seem to translate well for you to the soon-to-be Butt Dyno. Way slow? LOL. Let's see. The Grand Cherokee today weighs about 3900 lbs. The Liberty, believe it or not, is only 100 lbs lighter give or take, and as you stated in CRD form, runs a 17 second quarter with a "weak-ass" 2.8L diesel making "only" 160HP/295lb-ft Torque. Assuming trannies and diffs were indentical, for arguments sake, somehow in my "uneducated" mind I figure the Cherokee with 215HP/376lb-ft Torque will be a few clicks faster, not "slooooooooowwww." BTW, I can't find the E30 stats yet but a similarly optioned 3.2L E320, 3800 lbs, 201HP/360lb-ft Torque, is doing 14.9s stock. I wouldn't be surprised if the new Jeep does mid 15s. Let's revisit this thread when the truck debuts, shall we? This is in no way meant to be insulting. Please don't take it as such . But it's hard for me to tolerate material errors. I'll shut up now. -Your friendly neighborhood Mechanical Engineer (yes, for real). ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodan Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Diesels aren't built for dragracing (although you might be surprised at what some diesel trucks are running at the strip these days...). Big torque = driveability. I'll take a fat torque curve over peak HP any day. Perfect example: Legacy GT v. Honda S2k. Similar 1/4 mile times, but which one is better around town? Unless you rev the piss out of the S2k, it's a dog in daily driving. The LGT with a big, fat torque curve, peaking around 3k, is much more fun around town... I know these aren't diesels, I'm using them to make a point. Unless you're on a racetrack, torque FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 I can just add in some to the discussion.. You all know I love diesel cars for commuters and daily drivers, too bad I cannot find anything besides VW and MB to drive daily, so I am still researching and hoping that 4 USD/gallon gas prices approaching will make manufacturers open their eyes and start offering those cars here in the States.... Just a comparison, a heavy 3800lbs MB can reach 60 mph in "just" 6.6 secs... The low end torque (a massive 369ft/lbs at a mere 1800RPM) was nothing less than amazing, the car would just go when you added gas like it had an unlimited power reserve! I am not a mechanical engineer (Telecom engineer instead), but we all know torque is more useful for most of your driving, and HP is useful if you plan to drive your car at top speed (like in Germany or Europe)... where more HP translates to a higher top speed. Even though the governed speed of this car is 130mph, and un governed it's capable of 140mph, the E500 with 335hp can do "only"150mph... so this is where the additional HP is noticed, but seriously, where are we going to use that in the States? So coroborating what others have said, I would take a flat curve torque car (diesel) as opposed to rev starving S2000, RX8, as a daily driver anyday!!!! However, the additional 39 ft/lb of torque on the CDI is more than noticed while driving at 30-50mph in city traffic, and the 0-60 time is claimed to be 6.6 seconds depending on what test you see (vs 6.2-6.6) on the E500. Now here is where my last and biggest shocker came... This car has more or less the same performance as the E500, but has the added benefit of getting 30mph city and 37mph highway!! Yes, that's not a typo 37mpg! on Diesel that typically costs $.10 less than 91 octane anyway! But this car really has an incredible power curve and a lot of reserve power for passing, a true "sleeper". (As a foot note, RENNTech, the well known Mercedes tuners formerly from AMG makes an ECU software upgrade that gives you 230hp (29 more) and 440 ft/lbs torque!!!! for $1300). Talking about powerful???? heheheheheheheheeh I only wished this car did cost 20K less heheheheheheeh Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdisco Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/08/detroit-auto-show-mercedes-benz-launches-clean-diesels-for-the/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Great article man.... I really wish we had more diesels out here to speed up the competition!! heheheeheheh Only MB and AVG who are bringing cars to the States though... Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 http://www.autoblog.com/2006/01/08/detroit-auto-show-mercedes-benz-launches-clean-diesels-for-the/ so much for removing the bluetech for more power - looks like there are two sensors on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted June 16, 2006 Author Share Posted June 16, 2006 Gotta love the torquey diesel engines!!!!! Hehehe http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36784 Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubLo Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Interesting reading for the diesel haters... http://www.bankspower.com/Sidewinder-vs-Enzo.cfm http://www.bankspower.com/sidewinder-muscleflexing.cfm The sidewinder is a low 12 second car, in the summer, at 5000ft, with a nub driver, and tall gearing btw. ________________________________________________ [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1980"]'05 BSM OBXT Row-your-own, W.I.P. :rolleyes:[/URL] [URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1242"]'06 Shrek B # 64 - The car the wife loved to hate :( Sold...[/URL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fzanetti Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 Interesting reading for the diesel haters... Banks Sidewinder vs. Ferrari Enzo Muscle Flexing | Banks Power | Project Sidewinder: Burnouts and a street race in Las Vegas The sidewinder is a low 12 second car, in the summer, at 5000ft, with a nub driver, and tall gearing btw. Great post man!!! Flavio Zanetti Boston, MA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Touareg V10 TDI is coming back. http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/future/07.volkswagen.touareg/07.vw.touareg.f34.500.jpg "Later this year, Volkswagen will also reintroduce the V10 TDI engine back into the Touareg lineup. Dropped because it couldn't meet emissions regulations, the switch to new low-sulfur diesel fuel in the U.S. has opened the door for the TDI once again. Volkswagen officials decided to hold off sales until this fall, however, until after the majority of U.S. pumps have switched over to the new cleaner burning fuel. A new set of more restrictive diesel emissions rules which go into effect January 1st of 2007 will force Volkswagen to restrict sales to 45 states next year, but for a period of about three months the Touareg TDI will be sold in all 50 states." ~Edmunds.com http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobE Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 does anyone know when the JGC diesel is expected to arrive at dealers? http://newenglandsubarus.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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