Stinkin' BMW dealer rant

[Smada]

So my wife and I looked at some bimmers about a month ago and decided to keep looking at other cars. We ended up ordering the legacy a few weeks ago. Well the BMW dealer calls back asking if we are still interested and my wife tells him we bought a car already. He says, "really, what did you get?" When she told him a new legacy he says, "oh, well that's a change" in a snotty tone. She just hung up on him. I would have pointed out the fact that a 27k legacy would probably mop the floor with a 45k 330. Plus the fact the 3-series bimmers are way overpriced. Also the fact that the interiors look like they are 6 years old.. So my guess is this guy hasn't seen or heard about the new legacy yet. Maybe Subaru should have renamed the series to dispel any preconceptions of the older legs? I know it is nice to have a stealth car and all, but a new name with the redesign may make it more recognizable and distinct, thus improving brand recognition.. Just a late night thought :)

[SoldonSubie]

Funny, my distant second was a 325xi with 5MT. The BMW dealer was super nice and very helpful. I told him all along that I was waiting for the new Subaru. He had all kinds of reasons why his car was better than the others I looked at (Passat, a4, X type) but he just sort of accepted that the Subaru is a great performer. He was sort of embarrased with his inventory that included 0 325xi MT's. He had all sorts of autos with leather (vinyl also :( ), tv sets (navi) sunroofs and all kinds of other crap that had nothing to do with being "an ultimate driving machine". I told him that if he could have sold me a 325xi, 5 MT, winter package and Euro CLOTH seats (not vinyl) I'd have been sold at $28K. He said he wished he could get me one....

[brady_bunch]

One of the first cars I looked at when starting my hunt for my next vehicle was a BMW 330i. The interior is definitely "so 90's"... even the new 5 and 7-series interiors do not impress me. After briefly toying with the idea of a new M3 and then a used 5 series, I lost interest. I like the exterior styling and features the BMWs offer but I just couldn't see myself paying the prices they were asking for a vehicle that did not adequately satisfy my itch for zipping through the twisties. An M5 would definitely satisfy but I can't see myself paying that much for a vehicle unless I just happened to win the lottery or something. :) As it stands, the GT is [i][b]THE [/b][/i]car for me!

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='brady_bunch']An M5 would definitely satisfy but I can't see myself paying that much for a vehicle unless I just happened to win the lottery or something. :) As it stands, the GT is [i][b]THE [/b][/i]car for me![/quote] AMEN. I am not yet in the market to buy, but I hope to be in the next year to two years. I take cars very seriously, probably too much so. Mostly I just try to keep up with the news, and take good care of the ones I have. I had four or five cars on the list: A4: Really like the looks and torque-biasing AWD. Expensive, and I am getting seriously put off by the reliability problem reports. RX8: Love the powerplant, but not the gas mileage (I want something that gets better mileage than my pickup.) Like the interior, but exterior styling is a bit too much. E36 M3 4door, or newer 3 series sport pkg. Getting too old when the price is actually in range. Non M cars have less power, Manual trans are available but somewhat rare. Thought about IS300 5MT. Good luck finding one. Lexus is not inexpensive to repair, but toyota quality should be a little better than Audi's reports. Small. Everything else seems to be wrong wheel drive, or not sporty enough, or too expensive, like E39 5-series. The Subaru Legacy GT Ltd. is right up my alley. Manual trans: Check, 4 accessible seats: Check, AWD/RWD: Check, Sporty Handling: Check, More than 200hp/tq: Check, check again, 250 is a good number, and it sounds like it will be easy to go even higher. Plus it has a technically interesting flat engine, with a turbo and intercooler. Plus if you think about it, what other car has all three: a turbocharged boxer engine, performance-oriented AWD, and a manual transmission? Porsche Turbo. That is it. Exclusive company. Good by me. Looks like Legacy, despite it's slightly short options list, but thankfully lower price, is the car for me, when it comes time. If I had to buy a car tommorrow, and couldn't afford a brand new GT, I don't know what I'd buy otherwise. Maybe a used WRX, but I really want something a little roomier, and more sleek. I'd probably try and find a way to put a new GT in my garage.

[axis008]

Yeah, I say ignore what everyone else thinks. When this car gets known, people will give it more respect. Time is all it takes. I keep finding myself defending Subaru--especially the Legacy, since they've never heard of it. It's all just because Subaru just doesn't cut it for most people.

[scubie02]

It just seems to be a universal quality for BMW dealers to be obnoxious (you must have heard that joke--what's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine? With the porcupine the pricks are on the OUTSIDE..."). Back when I got my wrx I had been shopping more upscale smal; sedans. I had firsrt driven the Mercedes C class and liked it ok, then thought "better stop at the BMW dealer ad see what they can offer". The sales guy was immediately condescending and smug, and totally dismissive of any other brand (Mercedes is an old man's brand" blah blah blah "umltimate driver's machine" blah blah) So we start looking at the beemers, the interiors aren't super impressive, the price seems high for what you got, it actually became airborn during my spirited test drive, and the kicker was when I was looking at the list and said "leatherette...that would be like what, vinyl? So this $40k car has pleather seats!?", and the guy just says "most people can't tell the difference...". I said "you know, I'm old enough to remember when cloth seats started to become prevalent and were a big step up from vinyl seats--haven't had a car with vinyl seats since the 70's, and I'll be damned if I spend $40k dollars for one!". The next car I drove was the wrx, and it blew the BMW away in terms of performance, had better seats, etc, and I picked it up for thousands less.

[wunderkind]

Well BMW these days have to rely on the badge snobbery cus their current offerings are either outdated or just Bangled-fugly.

[MtnSub]

My BMW dealer (have bought two cars from him) new all about the Leg GT and said it was a really well done car. He complimented the new interior and said build quality and performance were first class. I am a wagon guy and he said he was sorry to say that BMW still does not ship 330ixT to NorAM and he said the 325xiT I bought my son did not offer performance of Leg GT. My BMW dealer said he would not even try selling me on X3 because it was over priced and he agreed when I said it was ugly. He knows I am not buying the Leg GT to save money, but because BMW does not have package for me. Regarding MT, we had to weight 90 days for my sons and sales rep said same thing now. My BMW guy said enjoy your Leg GT and bring it buy to show dealer what loyal BMW customers are buying. BMW guy said he hoped to call me in 18 months about new 400 ft lb torque turbo disel in 3 series package, but it might be Bangled. WRX reminds me of the old BMW 2002 that started USA BMW love affair and it grew into the very successful 3 series. Sounds like WRX to Leg GT. What happened to the ultimate driving machine company? Looks like they foregot that it is what inside that counts. Suby sure has the car lovers spirit going.

[currentlya4]

[quote]WRX reminds me of the old BMW 2002 that started USA BMW love affair and it grew into the very successful 3 series. Sounds like WRX to Leg GT.[/quote] I never thought of it before, but that statement is dead on.

[MtnSub]

Hey Currentlya4, if you are an A4 owner, would appreciate comments about A4 vs Leg GT. I looked at A4, loved seats and smooth power, but did not like heavy nose & V8. Owned two Audi's, including 2000 A6 Quatro Wagon and never again, but my kids really want me to consider the A4 wagon. 99% sure Leg GT will be my choice. On WRX/BMW2002, 2002 was not loved for its beautiful interior, gadgets and swooing lines of sheet metal. It was a basic box, kinda ugly, but man could you have fun on, off track and on dirst roads with that tough little cabbage burner engine. WRX is really done in spirit of 2002. Not sure new BMW 1 series will reclaim 2002 segment.

[currentlya4]

[quote name='MtnSub']Hey Currentlya4, if you are an A4 owner, would appreciate comments about A4 vs Leg GT.[/quote] If you're referring to the V8 you drove a new S4, no? I have a 97 a4, which is quite a different animal than the new S, but my opinions of my car vs the leg are as follows: (for reference mine is a 97 1.8T quattro, chipped/exhaust, lightweight flywheel/sport clutch, and it has aftermarket springs and bilstein sports. it also has about 141,000 miles on the clock.) Power...no comparison between a 1.8t a4 and the leg. leg is obviously faster than a stock a4. It's probably similar to a b5 (previous gen) s4 with a little more turbo lag and a little less midrange grunt even though the hp/torque numbers are almost the same if not exactly the same. the S4 has a broader torque curve IIRC. I doubt the leg could match a new s4 though. Handling: IMO 6 and 8 cylinder a4's handle like arse because the motors are out in front of the front wheels. 1.8's (now 2.0's) handle a lot better due to the decreased wieght in the front. IMO stock A4's are calibrated waaay too soft., hence the aftermarket springs and bilsteins on mine. with better springs/shocks or c/o's the a4 becomes a reasonably fun car to toss around. From one brief drive in the leg I get the idea that it's a little less front-heavy than the 4-cyl a4's and as such should be a little more tossable with an equivalent suspension. The stock leg suspension is better than the stock a4's, but it's still not tight enough for my taste (think e36 bmw m3 and that's about what I go for). Exterior...I like the b5 a4's better than the leg, although a JDM B-spec bumper would go a long way toward cleaning up the fron end. Personally I care a lot more about performance than styling so that's no big deal. Interior...again the a4 is a little better, but I don't mind the leg's at all...fit and finish on the a4 may be somewhat better, but it's not a night-and-day difference by any means. Reliability - this is the main reason I will probably never consider another audi. Having owned a few of them I'm sure you know, but this car has been the bane of my bank account since it came off of warranty. The b5 a4's are horrible compared to the japanese makes when it comes to maintenance, and mine's been no exception. Personally I'm going to go with a legacy (perhaps a wagon...more practical and a better sleeper) based on the horsepower coupled with awd (I live in cleveland), the appearant ease with which the car will be able to be modded, and the greatly reduced spectre of high maintenance as compared to my audi.

[MtnSub]

Thanks currentlya4 for confirming my experience and recent test of Audi. I like the simplicity of the leg GT and low cg, low weight position of engine. I will see how the leg handles with really good tires and if my driving skills ever push the car beyond its limit before I mod suspension. Leg GT looks like the way.

[BookemDano]

I have a 2002 A4, V6 6MT with Sport pack. This is the current model. Audi Pros: - Very nice looking exterior and interior - Comfortable seats - Excellent service department (they had to be) Audi Cons: - Absolutely the WORST reliability that I ever seen in a car. It's been in the shop 26 times for non-routine maintenance. All coils replaced twice. Towed THREE times. Bad battery. Short in electrical module. Oil leak. Rattles. - Very poor radio - Heater blows 120 degree hot air until the temp reaches 71, even if you set the thermostat to 64. All temps were measured with digital thermometer. - With the original tires, it tramlined and pulled horribly on rutted roads. To the point of being dangerous. - Stable handling, but it feels ponderous. - Some interior materials are poor quality. Light switch black surface is wearing off. Shift knob chrome ring flakes off (cutting your hand); replaced once and needs it again. If you enjoy pain and hassles, get the Audi. For a good car, go elsewhere. Subie is now my first choice. Regards, Dan.

[brady_bunch]

[quote name='BookemDano']If you enjoy pain and hassles, get the Audi. For a good car, go elsewhere. Subie is now my first choice. [/quote] Thanks, Dan. Your comments only confirm in my mind that I made the right choice to go with Subaru instead of Audi.

[racerdave]

Smada... you obviously had a clown of a BMW dealer. I'm sure he is used to leveraging that snob appeal for most of his customer base. Problem is, you guys saw the Legacy for what it was, not what badge was on it's hood. Yeah, the guy's a prick. But you got a better car and better bang for the buck. :) Otherwise, I agree with Soldon... if BMW had a 325iT (or better yet, a 330iT - T means Touring, or wagon - or even the 330 turbo diesel, that car would be great... if it had cloth seats and sold for closer to 30k than 40k. Face it, there's nothing else that offers the performance, refinement, AWD and handling in a practical package than the Leg GT. I've seen and driven them all... this one wins.

[il collaudatore]

[quote name='scubie02']Mercedes is an old man's brand" blah blah blah [/quote] It's true- it's it's for fat, lazy people who think status is paramount to everything else in a car. But then again, there was this fat, lazy girl I knew through a friend who had the snobbiest attitude toward cars- she LOVED MBs. She would say "BMW's are for people who can't afford a Mercedes", and insisted her Nissan Pathfinder was as expensive as the top of the line E-class. Which meant it was the same as her owning a MB. :roll: Which meant she was better than you with your peasant Japanese car. So I tend to have a bias toward MB...

[gtguy]

In fact, the Mercedes vs BMW difference has traditionally been one of sportiness, or perception thereof. It's the reason that BMW offers manual transmission options across most of its model line, while MB offers it only on select models. The MB cars tend to be slightly softer-edged, but no less performance-oriented than the BMWs. An M5 vs E55 AMG choice would be a very difficult one, frankly. But I have seen appalling examples of both drivers, and based on a story I did about manual transmissions, even BMW drivers are opting for the MT with increasingly less frequency. I often quip that BMW stands for "Brain Might Work." Speaking as a cyclist, BMW drivers tend to be more heinous than MB drivers. Kevin