XT-sub Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 13 minutes ago, Rod702 said: So is that price correct to install new spring and adjust the backlash $1300 ? It isn’t clear. It could be to adjust backlash & fit the new spring, or it could be just to adjust the backlash. Either way, going by the TSB, the backlash adjustment is more labour intensive whereas replacing the spring is a piece of cake. It does sound pricey but the cost of labour can quickly add up. I suspect a good recommended Indy mechanic would be cheaper. I think on subaruoutback.org there is a list of recommended Indy shops in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 12 minutes ago, XT-sub said: I think on subaruoutback.org there is a list of recommended Indy shops in the US. Here if it helps: https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/list-of-recommended-independent-subaru-repair-shops.538265/ 'cardoc' (forum username) in Austin TX is highly regarded on that forum if you are near there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod702 Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 55 minutes ago, XT-sub said: Yes, steering column recall. If you want to check the EPS tension spring yourself, in addition to the link to the TSB posted by ammcinnis, below is a link to post #269 by OHSCrifle in the topic I previously linked to. It has a link to Tim Wong’s YouTube video: https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/front-end-rattle-clunk.377209/page-7?post_id=6096141&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-6096141 Note: 40 inch/lbs isn’t much torque, so I wouldn't use a power tool to refit the screw. A brief list of how easy it is to do is posted by CdnScooby in post #245 here: https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/front-end-rattle-clunk.377209/page-6?post_id=6030997&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-6030997 thanks bud. I can tell u enough how grateful I am u share that info with me. I’m going to do the eps tension spring myself and pray to God that solves my problem. in video, those noises on small bumps and also the side side on steering wheel are exact symptoms I’m experiencing on my legacy. thabks again, u might of just saved me thousands of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) You are welcome. I didn’t use a torque wrench on the screw, I just hand tightened it firmly but not too tight. Depending on what screw is fitted to the steering rack on your Legacy, you may not need to source the TS40 5-point Torx security screw bit. You may get away with a T40 5-point Torx screw bit. The new screw is a T40 5-point Torx screw & the original one on my Outback was the same. The T40 5-point Torx screw bit would have done the job but the TS40 5-point Torx security screw bit in a kit was readily available where I shop (it fits both TS40 & T40 versions of the screw). I hope it fixes the noise. Edited March 6 by XT-sub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod702 Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 (edited) On 3/5/2024 at 8:37 PM, XT-sub said: You are welcome. I didn’t use a torque wrench on the screw, I just hand tightened it firmly but not too tight. Depending on what screw is fitted to the steering rack on your Legacy, you may not need to source the TS40 5-point Torx security screw bit. You may get away with a T40 5-point Torx screw bit. The new screw is a T40 5-point Torx screw & the original one on my Outback was the same. The T40 5-point Torx screw bit would have done the job but the TS40 5-point Torx security screw bit in a kit was readily available where I shop (it fits both TS40 & T40 versions of the screw). I hope it fixes the noise. So I got part from dealership and tried taking off screw with reg torx 40 and it wouldn’t work. So the part number BTP40P bit is the same as a torx 40 security bit with hole in middle ? my buddy has a kit with Torx security bits. Trying to save some money and not order this $20 bit from Matco that I will never use again. also has anyone tried to adjust lash themselves ? If so, I’m assuming u need special tools and can share their experience? Edited March 8 by Rod702 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 That's a Torx Plus part number. It's more square than a normal torx. Is the fastener a torx plus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 4 hours ago, Rod702 said: So I got part from dealership and tried taking off screw with reg torx 40 and it wouldn’t work. So the part number BTP40P bit is the same as a torx 40 security bit with hole in middle ? I haven’t seen that part number BTP40P bit, but it looks like a TS40 Torx 5-point bit. The following may help. It must be a 5-point Torx bit, not a 6-point Torx bit. If the screw in your car is the same as the new screw as shown in my post I previously linked to (the new screw doesn’t have a pin in the centre), then a TS40 Torx 5-point bit will fit & a T40 Torx 5-point bit should also fit. TS40 Torx 5-point vs T40 Torx 5-point: A TS40 Torx 5-point bit has a hole in the centre & fits TS40 Torx 5-point screws which have a pin in the centre & also fits T40 Torx 5-point screws without the pin in the centre. A T40 Torx 5-point bit doesn’t have a hole in the centre & fits T40 Torx 5-point screws without a pin in the centre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I’ve attached a photo showing the original screw fitted to our Outback alongside the TS40 Torx 5-point bit I used. The bit is far from perfect having a couple of points more rounded than others. That bit isn’t a tight fit in the screw, but we are only looking at 40 inch/lb torque. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 hard to judge size here, but could it possibly be similar to the AVCS sprocket fasteners? https://www.company23.com/products/subarutools/510?limit=100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XT-sub Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 9 hours ago, silverton said: That's a Torx Plus part number. It's more square than a normal torx. Is the fastener a torx plus? The screw does appear to be a Torx Plus 5-point. The TS40 5-point bit I used is that badly made it could be either a Torx 5-point or a Torx Plus 5-point. The document that came with the kit that contained that Torx TS40 5-point bit makes no mention of Torx Plus (see below attached scanned image). 5 hours ago, silverton said: hard to judge size here, but could it possibly be similar to the AVCS sprocket fasteners? https://www.company23.com/products/subarutools/510?limit=100 If that is a 40 size, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoleMan Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Just curious why everyone is gravitating toward the EPS on this. Yes I have the rattle as well. Never brought in in for the TSB because it seems to go away when I get in the highway and can be a slight annoyance over bigger bumps or road imperfections. OP is saying a clunking can be heard. OP have you had anyone look at your Control Arms? Specifically the bushings? I know on my daily I have to replace my bushings every two years or so and have huge clunking sounds coming from my front end. Granted my daily is a Gen 8 completely stock Civic and it has over 200k. That being said both my 4th Gen Legacys also had bad Control Arm bushings which were replaced with Poly ones and I never had the issue again. However made the cars stiffer by a touch. Maybe have someone check out the Control Arms and get a yes or no on that before springs thousands on an issue that may not be the culprit. I do know some members live in areas where roads are bad and will tear up suspension components. I also know some members that have commented are Mechanics and maybe can chime in on my thought on this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod702 Posted March 9 Author Share Posted March 9 https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/front-end-rattle-clunk.377209/post-6096141 this guys video of the clunking left to right on steering wheel. Don’t know if clunking is the correct terminology for noise but it sounds exactly what he is experiencing. Also the vibrations and noise when going over small bumps. I took wheels off and looked at all bushings and had Subaru look at arms. They said it looked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 sounds like sway bar endlinks or ball joints to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoleMan Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 On 3/9/2024 at 1:52 PM, Rod702 said: https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/front-end-rattle-clunk.377209/post-6096141 this guys video of the clunking left to right on steering wheel. Don’t know if clunking is the correct terminology for noise but it sounds exactly what he is experiencing. Also the vibrations and noise when going over small bumps. I took wheels off and looked at all bushings and had Subaru look at arms. They said it looked fine. All because you checked the bushings does not mean they are not bad. Bushings will look fine from the underside because they fail from the top not the bottom. All of mine have failed and looked fine. The arms will always look fine as well. Seems you may have said to the dealer you already checked the bushings and just check the arms. So they probably just looked. They never test drove the car? As Silverton has said below it's a suspension issue. It has nothing to do with your EPS at all. My guess is once again the bushings on the Lower Control Arms or an endlinks. It could also be an end link which would be great for you as the stock endlinks from the factory are under 40 bucks each. Easy install. This can also cause the clunking as well. Just replace both at once. Have a professional check it out. Don't guess and tell the dealer you checked out this or that and it's fine. They will just keep throwing out potential solutions that cost thousands. Just take it to another dealer/mechanic and say I have a clunking sound. That's it. See what they come up with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 17 Share Posted March 17 My favorite cars to work on are customer diagnosed. "this other shop said" or "my friend said" or "i searched on a forum and they said" and 9/10 times they are wrong. Just the other week I replaced a drive shaft at another shops recommendation, because they had just replaced a wheel bearing so that couldn't possibly be the cause of the noise they're hearing. Declined any kind of diagnosis so I didn't even test drive it before doing the work. During the work I noticed no kind of recent witness marks on any of the wheel bearing bolts. On the test drive after I found both rear wheel bearings were just roaring. Sorry bud, should have paid for a diag; more money please! It's like going to a doctor and telling them what procedure you need, like what are you even doing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod702 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 So got the part installed. The clunking noise from left to right is not as bad as before. But a noise on little bumps is gone. The Subaru advisor said that was issue really to be worried about. But I appreciate every one’s help! anyone needs this 5 point Torx bit I’d be willing to lend it out to pay it forward if anyone needs it ! IMG_3990.mov 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoleMan Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 On 3/26/2024 at 7:19 PM, Rod702 said: So got the part installed. The clunking noise from left to right is not as bad as before. But a noise on little bumps is gone. The Subaru advisor said that was issue really to be worried about. But I appreciate every one’s help! anyone needs this 5 point Torx bit I’d be willing to lend it out to pay it forward if anyone needs it ! IMG_3990.mov Not as bad as before? So you never had anyone even look at the suspension professionally after two members advised you to do so one being a professional mechanic? And the Subaru advisor does not know anything! These guys job is to make money off you. They are not professional mechanics. Some are OK and can tell you something at least. But most are just there to take your complaint and pass it along to the mechanics and sell you those cabin air filter replacements that need to be done now for only $80 bucks lol. I have a bad LCA on my Honda. I know its bad because it clunks. and I have the issue once a year. The bushings fail due to the roadways. Its not the endlink because those are brand new. However I am not going to just go to my mechanic and say I already looked and the LCA is fine. I am just going to say the car has a clunk please fix. I wish you the best. But the issue has nothing to do with the EPS TSB. It is a suspension issue. the EPS issue is more of a rattle over low speed surfaces. I know its there. I have have not had the TSB done and I live with it because it does not effect the performance of the EPS system. If the clunking comes back please bring it to a professional and just say your car has a clunking noise. Thats it. No more or no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod702 Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/4/2024 at 6:35 AM, MoleMan said: Not as bad as before? So you never had anyone even look at the suspension professionally after two members advised you to do so one being a professional mechanic? And the Subaru advisor does not know anything! These guys job is to make money off you. They are not professional mechanics. Some are OK and can tell you something at least. But most are just there to take your complaint and pass it along to the mechanics and sell you those cabin air filter replacements that need to be done now for only $80 bucks lol. I have a bad LCA on my Honda. I know its bad because it clunks. and I have the issue once a year. The bushings fail due to the roadways. Its not the endlink because those are brand new. However I am not going to just go to my mechanic and say I already looked and the LCA is fine. I am just going to say the car has a clunk please fix. I wish you the best. But the issue has nothing to do with the EPS TSB. It is a suspension issue. the EPS issue is more of a rattle over low speed surfaces. I know its there. I have have not had the TSB done and I live with it because it does not effect the performance of the EPS system. If the clunking comes back please bring it to a professional and just say your car has a clunking noise. Thats it. No more or no less. Man I don’t what to tell you. I posted a video of me Turing the wheel inside the car with clunk, a video with me inside engine manipulating the steering rack with clunk noise. I examine all the bushing with best of knowledge, they all look like in good shape for 2016 car. clunking noise in steering is still there but not as bad as before, but the noise over slight bumps is completely gone. Service advisory told me they all clunk on steering, what is concerning was the noise over slight bumps. mechanic didn’t even drive car he sat in car and manipulated steering knew exactly it was the steering rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoleMan Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) On 4/10/2024 at 8:31 PM, Rod702 said: Man I don’t what to tell you. I posted a video of me Turing the wheel inside the car with clunk, a video with me inside engine manipulating the steering rack with clunk noise. I examine all the bushing with best of knowledge, they all look like in good shape for 2016 car. clunking noise in steering is still there but not as bad as before, but the noise over slight bumps is completely gone. Service advisory told me they all clunk on steering, what is concerning was the noise over slight bumps. mechanic didn’t even drive car he sat in car and manipulated steering knew exactly it was the steering rack. Once again. Take it to a gosh darn shop and tell them you have a clunking sound going over bumps. Do not tell them you looked at anything and it's fine etc.. just say I have a clunking sound. Your mechanic is going off what you are saying. The EPS issue does not "clunk" it's more of an annoying rattle. Your issue is a control arm bushing or a broken endlink. That's it. A professional mechanic even gave you advice on this forum. If you choose to keep ignoring the recommendation thats up to you. My 3.6 does not clunk when steering and I have not had the EPS spring replaced. My modded 3.0R does not clunk on steering, my 2.5 does not clunk on steering both of those do not have EPS. And if we want to go further with EPS cars. My two Lexus's don't clunk when steering, my Camry V6 never clunked when I owned it. And my Scion TC does not clunk when steering. Seems to me that your guy cannot even tell the car has a broken suspension component. Or is the reason you are telling him or her that you checked it out and it's fine? Stop with the EPS excuse and take the advice given already dude. Your video exactly sounds like a broken LCA bushing or endlink to me. It will make that sound turning lock to lock. Once again take it somewhere and just tell them you have a clunking sound going over bumps. Stop trying to guess yourself. Edited April 13 by MoleMan Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) I'm sorry, what? $1300 to perform that TSB? What in the world is their labor rate?? .7 for the backlash adjustment, 1.3 if they also need to replace the tension spring. Max two hours if they're feeling sheisty enough to charge it that way. The spring kit is $20 MSRP. so 1280 in labor is like a wild $600+ an hour. Even the $3500 quote to replace the rack seems high, by my math is just a bit over $500/hr for labor after part cost is accounted for. But as their foreman said, it's kind of a CYA thing, at the end of the day you likely just need to replace the whole unit. Edited April 14 by silverton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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