wet handling question

[relhok]

I have a question about the rear end stepping out when accellerating out of a corner in the wet.

 

I'm used to my rear-engine RWD Karmann Ghia which will do a 180 real quick if you don't lift the throttle. So when the rear of the Legacy broke loose, my immediate reaction was to lift the throttle. So my question is: With AWD, will the front pull the car enough to do a four-wheel drift and finally straigten itself up if I don't lift the throttle completely or will it do a quick 180 just like a RWD car?

 

I was thinking about practicing in an empty parking lot one day but I want to get an idea what to expect first.

[mwiener2]

it will drift nuetrally sideways

[Xenonk]

It can happen both ways (it's AWD after all).. you'll just need to balance the gas some, the car will go into a 4-wheel drift and if you have the wheels pointed in the correct direciton, it will eventually pull you through that turn.

 

If lift too hard, it will loop around on you..

 

If you keep it nailed on the floor, it will loop around as well..

 

Just keep your foot on the gas a little bit and just aim where you need to go, the AWD will get you going in the positition of where you need to go.

[Bretm1]

oops

[nKoan]

You generally want to keep your foot where it is or lift slightly, and point the steering wheel roughly where you want to go. Like Xenonk said, lift too much and too quickly, and you can loop it. Nail it harder and you'll either push to the outside of the corner and/or loop it.

 

Now, if your front tires aren't getting traction, you may need to unwind the wheel a bit to get them pointed more or less the direction the car is currently moving until you regain traction and point it where you want to go.

 

I did this at the track a few weeks ago. Went through a corner and lifted completely the instant I felt the back end brake loose. Spun it. Next time I took the corner, it was significantly slower. Then, throughout the day, I kept speeding up until I was roughly the same speed as when I spun. Kept my foot where it was (probably 1/2 throttle), and let myself drift out closer to the edge on exit and didn't spin the car.

[biturbowagon]

Your question shows why I wish that our LGTs had stability control.

 

 

I have a question about the rear end stepping out when accellerating out of a corner in the wet.

 

I'm used to my rear-engine RWD Karmann Ghia which will do a 180 real quick if you don't lift the throttle. So when the rear of the Legacy broke loose, my immediate reaction was to lift the throttle. So my question is: With AWD, will the front pull the car enough to do a four-wheel drift and finally straigten itself up if I don't lift the throttle completely or will it do a quick 180 just like a RWD car?

 

I was thinking about practicing in an empty parking lot one day but I want to get an idea what to expect first.

[Beanboy]

Ah, wet track conditions are fun with the LGT. Understeer, neutral and oversteer all in one corner! Find the back very easy to bring around with the wagon.

 

Not confident in my skillz if I just went to a JDM thicker rear bar. Fun enough as is!

 

-B

[LittleBlueGT]

My favorite thing about the LGT handling traits. The rear LSD vs. the front not having one allows you to oversteer the car. I found firming up the suspension a bit helped to make it a bit more predictable.

 

Practice a bit and you will love it too.

[TSiWRX]

Not confident in my skillz if I just went to a JDM thicker rear bar. Fun enough as is!

 

This is me, too.

 

I'm keeping my suspension stock this winter - hoping to get in more practice on deserted, snow/ice-covered lots so that I can get a better understanding of what my car wants to do, and when it wants to do it...also so that I can get out of my front-driver (which I've always owned, at varying power levels) mentality.

 

I am simply afraid that with a thicker rear bar, I'll unintentionally overstep "the sweet spot of rear grip" that Keefe so often cites.

 

As-is now, I've got plenty of warning as to what's about to happen - it's time for me to work on my own skills before I look to do anything with the vehicle itself.

[Xenonk]

Your question shows why I wish that our LGTs had stability control.

 

 

it's called your right foot .. honestly, I really do think that all that electronic stuff is hindering my driving because it's not allowing me to do what I want the car to do..

 

You'll find out later that it's a lot more fun to drive without all that stuff.. and as for safety, it's how much you know in a bad situation.. the car is nothing more than an extension of your body.. (granted if you dont know how to control your body, then yes, the electronic stuff will try to save you from an incident). If you drive well and know a lot, then the electronic stuff will never activate.. and if it does, it's because the car thinks you dont know what you are doing (which are really the engineers that think the person who buys the car is a poor driver to begin with) when you really do know what you are doing... sometimes I really want the car to drift through a turn and have less steering input (less hand movements) and more throttle [as it's easier for me to just control the throttle pressure than it is to sit there and steer and counter steer all the time]

[kanoswrx]

I have upgraded sway bars (cusco) and when driving in the rain the past few days (cold too) I have gotten the back end to come out a little. I think I find I just lift off the throtle some and the car straightnes back out right away then I gas it again.

[Beanboy]

Hmm, lifting throttle reduces oversteer kanoswrx? That's kind of the opposite of how it works... Can you explain it a little more as to what is happening in your case?

 

I'm fine in controlled situations. Was able to rotate the car really well in the rallycross, enough to place in my class. The first time around, I was full opposite lock at the end of many of the turns, with no snap oversteer during the corrections. Slow way around, but really fun, hehe. Also like how controllable it was.

 

However, I'm not sure in emergency situations if I could react as well, at least not yet. Sigh, guess I'll have to hit up the snowy parking lots and winter rallycrosses... Life is tough!

 

-B

[Xenonk]

Hmm, lifting throttle reduces oversteer kanoswrx? That's kind of the opposite of how it works... Can you explain it a little more as to what is happening in your case?

 

he's allowing the car to slow down and settle.

[LittleBlueGT]

I found the car more of a handful when the suspension was stock. With my ION springs I find it safer and more predictable. I only think this will improve with some Bilstein shocks. My Cusco chassis braces also helped a small amount to make the car safer.

 

I drove the car REAL hard stock at a ride and drive with our local dealerchip (my form of stealership) and a driving club. My car with the above set-up is way easier to drive fast and way safer IMO.

 

Adding a whiteline adj RSB made things a diferent story. On its stiffest setting (21mm) I found the car much more neutral around corners. I could drive it faster through the same turns. On the other hand, when I entered a corner too fast (on purpose, testing limits in a safe situation) and let off the throttle abruptly the car oversteered like crazy. I had to instantly give it opposite lock and full throttle to slowly pull it out of the 70 degree 110 kph slide!

 

The bigger RSB gave the car a more neutral feel. I much prefer it, but to drive it fast and safe you have to have a bit more experience. Now that it is icy outside I find the car a little uneasy at speed. I will adjusting the RSB to its softest setting to have a bit more (safer) understeer during the winter.

[biturbowagon]

I like having the electronic stuff as a backup for routine driving, in case of an emergency situation. I am not capable of individually braking one wheel. The electronics can do that for me.

 

I also like being able to switch it off when I want to have fun.

 

I want it all.

 

Maybe on my next car.

 

 

 

it's called your right foot .. honestly, I really do think that all that electronic stuff is hindering my driving because it's not allowing me to do what I want the car to do..

 

You'll find out later that it's a lot more fun to drive without all that stuff.. and as for safety, it's how much you know in a bad situation.. the car is nothing more than an extension of your body.. (granted if you dont know how to control your body, then yes, the electronic stuff will try to save you from an incident). If you drive well and know a lot, then the electronic stuff will never activate.. and if it does, it's because the car thinks you dont know what you are doing (which are really the engineers that think the person who buys the car is a poor driver to begin with) when you really do know what you are doing... sometimes I really want the car to drift through a turn and have less steering input (less hand movements) and more throttle [as it's easier for me to just control the throttle pressure than it is to sit there and steer and counter steer all the time]