Stealership Front & Rear Diffy Service - Did I get ripped off?

[kero]

Guys,

 

Just got back my 2016 legacy premium from the dealership as they did the recall work for the front exhaust pipe that cracks near the flex pipe or something along those lines. While the car was there, they replaced a bad rear bearing (car only has 58K miles) under the extended warranty.

 

I also had them do the front and rear diff fluid changes as it was just more convenient for me.

 

I got the car home and slid under the back of the car and there was no evidence that rear diffy was opened and drained.

 

#1 There was not one ounce of drained fluid anywhere near the drain bolt. Is it possible they just cleaned that area really well? They told me they sprayed the entire diffy down with brake cleaner after the job. I am not sure I buy that.

 

#2 The bottom drain bolt that takes the star socket, it is quite rusty after 58K miles and there is not one ounce of tools marks anywhere on that bolt. It is possible that there wouldn't be any tool marks on the inside of that star drain bolt? It is possible they just checked it at the top and felt it didn't need to be changed?

 

I called them and advised them of such and told me to come back in. I told them I am decently far away. The service manager said he would check the cameras but how would I know if they really do that or really saw the tech drain the rear diffy on video. He told me he spoke to techs who was near my car when it was serviced and they saw it was done. I don't know those techs and you think I would trust them not sticking up for their buddy.

 

So, unfortunately I have to go to my local mechanic and have him check the rear diffy to see if fresh fluid is in there. Anybody know the torque specs for the top bolt so when he reinstalls it it's correct tightness wise?

 

I assume at 58K miles, that the original fluid would be dirty enough to tell if new or old fluid is in that rear diffy.

 

Thoughts, comments? Thanks

 

I told the service manager that if I find out it was done, I will call and apologize but if it wasn't done, there is gonna be a problem that will simply not be resolved by simply doing the service if I come back.

Edited November 5, 2020 by kero

[apexi]

I believe what the dealer says and I think you need to relax...

 

Why don't you believe that they cleaned the diff area with brake clean after? Do you expect there to be fluid drips or something?

 

A tech with professional tools that fit plugs well probably won't leave any marks in my opinion, lack of marks is no indication that the job wasn't done imo.

[kero]

Well to be honest, most other diff jobs get wiped down after but not entirely cleaned with brake cleaner. This would be the first time between me and my friends (all with subarus) that an ENTIRE diffy would be wiped down instead of just the area where the drain occurred. Granted, they didn't have theirs done at the stealership. Even if one just wiped up the dribbles, there would still be a different color on the diffy in that area form the gear oil considering that the diff was probably filthy in general from at least 4 years or road grime.

 

Understood on the lack of marks but the rear diffy was never touched. First fluid change. The star bolt is heavily rusted, even with a perfect tool, there would be some form or marks from going in and out of that star pattern. A tool would naturally remove some of the rust as it was inserted.

 

In live in NY and stealerships are known to rip people off and not do services they say they did. Especially fluid changes that are not oil changes.

 

I might totally be off base but from personal experience, I know this type of thing does happen.

 

Well, I'll know more tomorrow as once it's on the lift, we can look more closely before considering breaking open to the top fill bolt to see if the fluid is fresh. I would rather not have to do that to be honest.

 

If the job was indeed done, it would be the cleanest and neatest job I have seen to date.

 

oh paperwork says 4 quarts 80w90. Does this seem correct? Rear is 75w90, front 80w90, no?

 

How dirty would the rear diffy fluid be after 58K so I have some clue when we check if it has been replaced or not. I assume it would be somewhat brown no and not very clear?

 

Just was curious what people thought.

Edited November 5, 2020 by kero

[kero]

Update: My local shop whom I have known for years, had two different mechanics check out the rear diff, both agree the rear diffy might have had the fluid checked but not changed.

 

The fluid is dark and has a burntish smell to it. When they showed me the fluid on a blue rubber globe, it was more black than clear.

 

Also, the level was low and not level with the fill bolt bottom edge. They had to take a zip tie and bend it down to get any fluid on it.

 

They checked the front and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was ever touched.

 

So my next step is request the video they say they should on file to see what the deal is. Will update when info comes back.

[george-in-georgia]

I also had them do the front and rear diff fluid changes as it was just more convenient for me.

 

My local shop whom I have known for years

 

 

You don't trust the dealership , you have a local shop that you do seem to trust .

 

Why on earth did you let the dealership do the diffs ?

A bit of convenience has turned into major aggravation for you .

 

I also think that I would have reviewed the dealership video before running off to your local shop .

 

I'm making some popcorn right now and pulling up a chair ....

awaiting results of your dealer visit .

 

 

George

[kero]

I also had them do the front and rear diff fluid changes as it was just more convenient for me.

 

My local shop whom I have known for years

 

 

You don't trust the dealership , you have a local shop that you do seem to trust .

 

Why on earth did you let the dealership do the diffs ?

A bit of convenience has turned into major aggravation for you .

 

I also think that I would have reviewed the dealership video before running off to your local shop .

 

I'm making some popcorn right now and pulling up a chair ....

awaiting results of your dealer visit .

 

 

George

 

George, totally understood

 

#1 My local shop who is great wanted a more $$ (they can be expensive on certain services). They do good work but I am furloughed due to covid and every penny counts. The car was already in for the warranty work for both the exhaust recall and bearing so I thought it would be more convenient to just have all done at one time.

 

#2 I called this morning, they will not let me view the video and they will not send me snap shots via email of the fluid draining. I told him I would come in to view the video, they said is proprietary and I am not allowed to view or see it. Does not inspire much confidence that the job was done.

 

#3 You are right the convenience has turned into aggravation and that my fault 100%

 

#4 I just got off the phone with the service manager again, after he saw the photo of the blue glove. He said "does not look that bad". That is not an answer that would make someone think the service was 100% done.

 

#5 After going back and forth and me saying I just want the service done and confidence it was done, he said to come by this Tues first thing in the AM and I can watch them "redo" both front and rear diffies.

 

I tried to upload the photo but it failed for some reason. Mechanic said the fluid is to dark to be new and smelled semi burned. When he showed me the fluid it didn't look new to me. Definitely looked more black.

 

I guess it is what it is and I will have to settle for that.

 

I would prefer a refund and then just spend the extra (which I probably should have done) and let my shop do the work but we all know that is never going to happen with a dealership.

 

Lesson learned, oh well, I normally don't let the dealerships do any work on my car other than warranty / recall work and this just reconfirms why I don't. It was a judgement error and I own that.

 

"I'm making some popcorn right now and pulling up a chair ...." - you're gonna have to share with me lol

Edited November 6, 2020 by kero

[kero]

photo below

[apexi]

Honestly, I'm not trying to be a d*ck when I say this, I'm still just not convinced by any of this.

 

Having to bend the zip tie, the fluid color on his finger, really means nothing imo. This isn't engine oil, I've had fluid in my front diff for at least 20k now that looks brand spanking new, I'm not convinced that diff fluid changes color as quickly, or as much as engine oil. Engine oil turns black because it captures and suspends soot particles, and also because the additive package can cause it to change color when it's heated up.

 

What you really should do is get a sample of the dealerships 80w-90 gear oil that they said they used, get a sample of the fluid in your front and rear diffs, and send it out to a lab and have the TAN (total acid number) checked. You can also look at the additive package in the used fluid vs their new fluid for comparison, and also the TAN of the fluid of the diffs vs their new fluid. To me, that would be the best and most thorough thing to do.

 

Edit: Looking at the viscosities of the new fluid vs the front/rear diff fluids as well, pretty much an overall comparison of the new stuff vs the stuff in your diffs. Maybe post over at bitog about it too.

Edited November 6, 2020 by apexi

[kero]

I am not sure if you are saying they did or did not change the fluid but that fluid on the glove was from the rear diff, I was right there taking the photo. I watched them open the top fill bolt. I was under the car with them. It was not from the cover or outside area or bolt itself. It was from fluid INSIDE the rear diff. It was 100% not amber or not even close. Was dark brown and not transparent.

 

I don't think people are dicks for offering varying opinions.

 

The front and rear diff have 58K on them and haven't been changed yet.

 

I don't have enough experience to know if diffy fluid would still be clear 58K later but in no way shape or form am I presenting anything unfactual here. I have no reason to. If I pay for a service, I just want that service done, like any of us would.

 

If my local shops lift was not 100% level, that would explain the low fluid level. If not, when they opened the top bolt, the level was not level with the bottom edge. I watched, we took a flashlight. Remember the fluid was warm as I drove the car to the shop.

 

They said they did both front and rear and I don't have 100% confidence they did, that is the basis for this thread.

 

Anyway, I am suppose to go back this Tuesday for them to "REDO" both while I watch. Once the fluid drains out, it should be much more clear if it was changed or not. Old fluid should look somewhat different than new fluid at 58K miles right. If it wasn't changed, well, that means it will get done at that point. If it was, the dealership is just going out of there way to make sure I feel not ripped off and covering their ass just in case.

 

All they had to do was let me come in and show me the video of the fluid draining out and that would have been all she wrote. He outright refused. When he replied to the photo his answer was ambiguous at best. "Doesn't look that bad" which even made me more unsure it was done. Why tell me a video exists if I can't see it.

 

Let's see how it goes right.

 

With regards to the lab and such, it's way beyond what I want to do right now including being on furlough for 6 months and living on a fraction of what I was making. It's a good idea and would consider if the situation was different.

 

If they redo it and it's obvious it was done, I will admit that to them 100% and apologize and say the same here.

 

It's my only car and I need to keep it running good, so I have to be on the safe side when it comes to service. Again, it's on me that I let them do it in the first place, if they did it. As someone mentioned earlier, I traded peace of mind for convenience.

Edited November 6, 2020 by kero

[sylquist]

I agree. If you paid for it, it doesn't matter if you needed the service or not. You paid for it so it should be done.

 

I'm fairly fortunate where I am. The local dealerships throw in freebies all the time. Oh you need your steering components checked while we got it up on the lift? No problem and no charge. Their prices are still more expensive than the local shop I normally go to, but hey, when it's in there for recall work, might as well ask.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DougKelly20]

Kero, may I ask what area of NY you are in? I'm in Albany and the Two dealerships here seem to be fairly up and up. I was definitely overcharged for a TPMS swap, but other than that the work seems fair....I've seen a few of your posts across a few threads taking about how you and your friends have had bad experiences and I'm wondering specifically what area/towns you're talking about?

 

Thanks,

[kero]

Long Island and the dealerships are infamous for being crooks. A lot of the dealership reviews even note this. I might be moving upstate in the near future and can't wait for so many reasons. I hate it here and always have. Family was here and so were jobs, this is changing so opportunity is opening for me to get the heck out of here. I have heard from friends that upstate dealerships are more on the level than downstate.

[DougKelly20]

You'll love it up here, plenty more back roads and less crowded.

[kero]

I already know, been up there plenty for camping and other things, I am in the process of buying property and will leave it at that The town is tiny in the middle of nowhere, can't wait!

[08SpecB_DE]

For 58k, the fluid being that dark seems a little odd. I've replaced gear oil at 100k that hasn't looked like that. It does not break down like motor oil so the color change is not as dramatic. I'd put money on them never changing it.

[kero]

^^ Well that is what came out when he stuck his finger in the hole to get some fluid on it. It wasn't black but definitely darkish (barely transparent) and we both smelled it and he said it smelled like old diffy fluid. I was right there under the car when they opened and remove the fill plug.

 

I showed my friend the photo who does his own diffys and he told me that it is definitely not new fluid.

 

He said new fluid should look more like honey, which this did not.

 

Will update as things progress......

 

The funniest and sadder part, the service manager said after seeing the photo "that does not look that bad". What type of bum **** answer is that, seriously. He knows that looks nothing like new fluid.

 

One way or another we will know for sure soon enough.

Edited November 8, 2020 by kero

[kero]

Update and a good one lol (see attached photos, sorry the one draining is a tad blurry and in one photo, there are reflections from the sides, that fluid is not clear)

 

So I changed the plans a little. Went to my local shop and had them drain completely and refill the rear diffy. Needless to say the photos will tell you everything you need to know. $49.99

 

Got photos of everything just in case the dipshit service manager didn't believe me. I also got at least a half of quart of the old diffy fluid drained directly from the rear diff into a clear water bottle.

 

Called immediately and told said dipshit that I just had the rear diffy fluid changed and it was filthy and indeed far from new. He tells me that was not the arrangement. I told him the customer has a right to do what he wants and I was not comfortable with them touching my car again.

 

I told him I wanted a full refund (we didn't check the front as it's obvious they did nothing period) and that I would like to come down with the bottle of dirty fluid we just drained to prove to him he lied and especially about the so called video he had of them doing both.

 

I was right down the road so I went down and spoke with him.

 

I brought the dirty fluid in the office and he starts to inspect it. I said do you really think that looks like new fluid after 2 days? Vague stare, no answer hahaha. I told him I grew up with my parents collecting and restoring old muscle cars (which is true) so I know what new and old diffy fluid look like. Blank stare hahaha.

 

I then said you told me you have video of this service being done yet it was obviously not done. He said nothing. I told him you were not being honest with me.

 

I then said to remedy this you will need to provide a full refund and he promptly did. I told him that I consider this matter closed (even though I would like to go to corporate with this but have to many things going on).

 

While I was waiting he calls in a service advisor and tells him to take the dirty fluid out of his office as it stinks hahahahah.

 

So, he should thank his lucky stars I don't get corporate involved as ripping off the customer is not something corporate would like to here about. I just need to move on to other things.

 

The shop who told me they didn't want to do the front has now agreed as I told them I will walk them through it with the PDF I just got in my new post.

 

After both services (the rear today) and front tomorrow, I will save about $50 from the dealership cost.

 

Lesson learned and that is that.

 

Can you imagine how many get ripped off like this that don't do some due diligence on their part to check if work was done where it's applicable after getting their car back.

Edited November 10, 2020 by kero

[ammcinnis]

[The service manager] tells me that was not the arrangement. I told him the customer has a right to do what he wants ...

The guy has a point. You agreed to a course of action and then, on your own, did something totally different.

 

I then said to remedy this you will need to provide a full refund and he promptly did.

Good resolution. You got what you wanted, and it was small price for the dealer to pay to settle your claim and not have to deal with you as a customer in the future. Edited November 11, 2020 by ammcinnis

[kero]

Good resolution. You got what you wanted, and it was small price for the dealer to pay to settle your claim and not have to deal with you as a customer in the future.

Thanks and for sure, I will not be a returning customer even for warranty work, there are several other places in my area, all of which are not that great but maybe just slightly better. If a loaner at the time was available from one of the others I would have gone to one of those but the wait time was weeks, no days.

[george-in-georgia]

All's well that ends well , I suppose .

 

Although the time involved and the aggravation is entirely another matter .

 

I'm glad the issue was resolved to your satisfaction .

 

Next time however , I suggest you go to the local animal shelter and borrow the biggest , meanest , bada** , frothing at the mouth , dog that you can find - to take to the meeting with the service manager .

 

 

George

[kero]

All's well that ends well , I suppose .

 

Although the time involved and the aggravation is entirely another matter .

 

I'm glad the issue was resolved to your satisfaction .

 

Next time however , I suggest you go to the local animal shelter and borrow the biggest , meanest , bada** , frothing at the mouth , dog that you can find - to take to the meeting with the service manager .

 

 

George

I like that idea, bring a burly, brawny mastiff! I even saw the prick eyeballing me on the way out and I laughed in his direction. At least I take enjoyment in knowing, I was one customer he was not going to get one over on. I should have accidentally spilled the diffy fluid on his desk hahaha.