SSD Strut Bar Arrived

[XT-sub]

With those pictures provided looks like you don't have enough exposed threads o. The nuts to be safe.. Rule of thumb is to have 2 to 3 threads showing..

 

Good point about the thread depth, that was one on my original concerns. It does look like I won’t have as much as I expected.

 

Going by gathermewool’s 4th photo in this post there appears to be more thread available with the SSD bar & washer fitted than I will get. So it looks like my Japanese built Outback is different to the US built Legacys as far as the studs & towers are concerned.

 

Measurements on my Outback without the SSD bar fitted:

From the nut top to the stud top: 7.1mm

Thickness of the SSD bar: 4.5mm

Supplied SS washer thickness: 1.3mm

Stud top to the first useable full thread: 1.3mm

 

Providing I can get the bar to fit perfectly flat. With the bar, washer & nut I should end up with only 1.3mm of stud (7.1 - 4.5 - 1.3 = 1.3mm).

 

With the bar & not the washer fitted I could end up with 2.6mm of stud (7.1 - 4.5 = 2.6mm). But I don’t like the idea of leaving the washer off, it is supplied for a reason, & I don’t think it is to only protect the powder coating on the bar. At only 14.8 ft/lb of torque on the nuts, I think it could be to stop the bar from loosening the nut if the bar ever moves slightly when cornering or when the body twists.

 

I can see why the Subaru STi strut bars are built the way they are.

[gathermewool]

With those pictures provided looks like you don't have enough exposed threads o. The nuts to be safe.. Rule of thumb is to have 2 to 3 threads showing..

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

2+ threads would be desirable, but flush is acceptable with zero torque applied. Excess thread protrusion adds nothing to the strength of the joint.

 

The issue with not being flush while finger-tight, is that you'll be putting excessive torque on the first few flats, as opposed to all available flats within the nut.

Edited January 14, 2020 by gathermewool

[XT-sub]

2+ threads would be desirable, but flush is acceptable with zero torque applied. Excess thread protrusion adds nothing to the strength of the joint. ...

 

As you probably know, the accepted method of having 2 threads minimum past the end of the nut when tightened is because bolts & studs have a slight taper at the end, therefore the first one or two threads don’t have a full thread depth. This can be seen in a close-up photo of my strut tower stud (1st photo). Also, those studs have a dished hollow at the top which is a bit hard to see in my 2nd photo.

 

Therefore I’m not keen only having 1.3mm of stud past the end of the nut when tightened. This of course is my theoretical estimate based on my Vernier measurements & in practice it could end up being more or less.

 

Did you notice if your Legacy had a tapered protruding section on the strut tower like the Japan designed & built vehicles have which is causing the main problem for me? If so did your SSD strut brace have a relieved section underneath to accommodate this? I’m trying to find out if I received a strut bar that wasn’t manufactured correctly.

 

[gathermewool]

I'm going mainly based upon instructions used for assembling fasteners for nuclear applications. If it's good enough for a nuke application, it's good enough for me.

 

MY main concern with strut bars and stiffeners of this sort is the stud strength itself, which is why I totally understand wanting to have nothing but full threads holding down the strut, not to mention an additional support, like a strut bar.

 

So, I'll clarify my statement to say that so long as all threads of the fastener are fully engaged and flush with the nut, I'm fine with it. That is also to say that the stud should be flush with nut before tightening, too, so you're not jacking the strut bar down with, say, only partial thread engagement, which could result in pushed threads..

 

//

 

Have you contacted SSD? What did they say about the bar not mounting flush to the strut top? Is it a 2019 thing or a JDM thing?

 

//

 

I'll count thread for both the Legacy and Forester and get back to you tomorrow.

Edited January 15, 2020 by gathermewool

[XT-sub]

I'll count thread for both the Legacy and Forester and get back to you tomorrow.

 

Thanks, but don’t worry too much about the threads on the Foz. I’m probably getting ahead of myself with the stud length. I need to see how much I end up with if I can get the bar sitting flat.

 

Have you contacted SSD? What did they say about the bar not mounting flush to the strut top? Is it a 2019 thing or a JDM thing?

 

At this stage I haven’t contacted SSD, but that’s next. I wanted to get as much info as I could before I did that. Even though the description for the bar I ordered stated; ‘Strut Tower Brace for all 2018 - 2019 Subaru Outback models (fits both the 2.5i and 3.6R as well as the Legacy)’, I doubt that it is for all model Outbacks (i.e. Japan built & US built).

 

Going by my previous 2016 Liberty & 2019 Outback photos I think the difference is in the Japan built Outback & Liberty/Legacy compared to the US built Outback & Legacy.

 

If it was a 2019 model issue, then it would have been mentioned in the subaruoutback.org ‘2015 Outback Strut Tower Brace’ topic. In that topic ‘Kms7852’ in post #55 mentions that the ‘installation was very easy’ when fitting it to a 2019 Outback 3.6R (a US built vehicle I assume) once a different problem encountered in post #50 was sorted out. And in that same topic ‘stfsubaru’, who has a USDM 2019 Outback 2.5i, didn’t have any fitting problems.

[fenix787]

Thanks, but don’t worry too much about the threads on the Foz. I’m probably getting ahead of myself with the stud length. I need to see how much I end up with if I can get the bar sitting flat.

 

 

 

At this stage I haven’t contacted SSD, but that’s next. I wanted to get as much info as I could before I did that. Even though the description for the bar I ordered stated; ‘Strut Tower Brace for all 2018 - 2019 Subaru Outback models (fits both the 2.5i and 3.6R as well as the Legacy)’, I doubt that it is for all model Outbacks (i.e. Japan built & US built).

 

Going by my previous 2016 Liberty & 2019 Outback photos I think the difference is in the Japan built Outback & Liberty/Legacy compared to the US built Outback & Legacy.

 

If it was a 2019 model issue, then it would have been mentioned in the subaruoutback.org ‘2015 Outback Strut Tower Brace’ topic. In that topic ‘Kms7852’ in post #55 mentions that the ‘installation was very easy’ when fitting it to a 2019 Outback 3.6R (a US built vehicle I assume) once a different problem encountered in post #50 was sorted out. And in that same topic ‘stfsubaru’, who has a USDM 2019 Outback 2.5i, didn’t have any fitting problems.

 

 

I am having similar issues getting the strut bar to fit on my 2018 legacy. I contacted SSD and they said the holes for the studs were not drilled to the correct size and that they need to be drilled out to 1/2". I noticed the same problem with it resting on the raised part between the studs so I'm wondering if there is something else wrong with the brackets as well, because it doesn't seem like larger holes would fix that issue. They also suggested I could just torque it down and that it would pull the bracket down but I didn't want to strip anything. Did you have any luck getting yours to fit?

[XT-sub]

I am having similar issues getting the strut bar to fit on my 2018 legacy. I contacted SSD and they said the holes for the studs were not drilled to the correct size and that they need to be drilled out to 1/2". I noticed the same problem with it resting on the raised part between the studs so I'm wondering if there is something else wrong with the brackets as well, because it doesn't seem like larger holes would fix that issue. They also suggested I could just torque it down and that it would pull the bracket down but I didn't want to strip anything. Did you have any luck getting yours to fit?

 

That’s interesting that you are having the same problem on a US built car. I suspected the problem was unique to the Japanese built vehicles.

 

Yes, I did have success after filing away a small amount of metal on the strut bar (but not as much as my previous photo with the cardboard template shows - it is important not to file too much because it needs to pull down tight in that area when the nuts are torqued). I have been in touch with Mike at SSD & had some good feedback. Mike explained; “we didn't design the brace to sit flat, we designed it to be pulled down into place thereby creating a preload effect to further stiffen the brace.”.

 

I’ve been meaning to post what information I have about my modified brace along with some photos that shows measurements. I will do that in the next couple of days if you can wait that long.

 

That’s very interesting about the size of the holes. All the holes in my brace measure 10.7mm ID (27/64”) & I too had difficulty getting the brace to fit over the studs. Is that the size of the holes in your brace? I found I had to fit the brace over the back studs first then force the brace over the front studs, which isn’t what I expected to have to do. If the brace had 1/2” (12.7mm) holes it would fit easier over the studs but I don’t know if it would help with the raised section of the tower.

 

@gathermewool did you have any difficulty getting the brace to fit over the studs like I did above, or did it just drop in place? Did you happen to measure the ID of the holes in the brace by any chance?

Edited February 1, 2020 by XT-sub
Corrected hole size.

[gathermewool]

It just dropped in place

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Well I decided to order the SSD front strut brace to suit a 2019 Outback 3.6R (which mine is). It arrived this morning & at this stage I’m having trouble fitting it.

 

Observations so far:

 

Cost including shipping & import duties to Australia: Expensive, but I was prepared for this anyway.

Response from SSD to my email re tracking: Quick.

Quality (appearance before trying to fit): Very good, I couldn’t fault it.

Important dimensions: 4.8mm metal thickness at the part that bolts to the strut tower. 10.85mm OD of all four holes. 7.85mm OD of Strut Tower studs.

Fit: Terrible on my Australian spec made in Japan 2019 Outback 3.6R.

 

It doesn’t just drop over the four studs & fit flat like I thought it would. The only way to fit it to my Outback is as follows:

The rear holes on both sides have to be dropped over the rear studs then the front holes have to be forced quite firmly by hand over the two front studs (the reverse can be done but I still get the same problems). The rear nuts were then fitted finger tight & the front nuts tightened with a socket until the bar bottomed out on a raised sloping part of the tower. At this stage the front still wasn’t fitting correctly on both sides. It has already taken paint off the tower & the strut bar where the problem is & if I tightened it any more it would no doubt take a lot more paint off & probably damage the raised sloping part of the towers.

 

To make it fit I will probably have to grind quite a bit off the underneath part of the brace where it hits the sloping part of the towers then hope that it sits flat. In the attached photos it doesn’t appear to be much, but it will need to be a considerable amount. If I had purchased it from an Australian supplier I would return it as not fit for purpose.

 

[ATTACH]282053[/ATTACH][ATTACH]282054[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]282055[/ATTACH][ATTACH]282056[/ATTACH]

 

I used an impact driver to tighten down the nut and it laid the mounting flat against the car structure

[XT-sub]

I used an impact driver to tighten down the nut and it laid the mounting flat against the car structure

 

Thanks, but I doubt an impact driver would have helped on my car. The gap between the brace & tower in the area immediately around the front studs was the problem, but that has now been solved.

 

I had no trouble getting the correct 14.8ft/lb torque with my torque wrench.

Edited January 31, 2020 by XT-sub
Clarify - replaced strut with brace.

[XT-sub]

... but I didn't want to strip anything ...

 

If you only use the correct 14.8ft/lb torque you shouldn’t strip anything. A torque figure of 14.8ft/lb isn’t very much, but I wouldn’t like to exceed that figure; there is no doubt a good reason why Subaru specify that figure.

 

I would go with SSD’s advice instead of my advice. The modification I made to my brace may not apply to other vehicles.

 

In answer to my query about drilling my brace front holes out to 1/2”, Mike’s response was (I hope he doesn't mind me quoting); “… If it goes over your studs just leave it alone. It's a brace, the tighter it fits the better!”. But that response could have been because Mike was familiar with the modification I had already made.

 

So my understanding is; the brace was designed to be pulled down into place thereby creating a preload effect to further stiffen the brace, & the tighter the brace fits the better.

 

I’ll try & get the photos of mine posted up tonight for completeness.

Edited January 30, 2020 by XT-sub

[DougKelly20]

Mine also dropped right into place and sat at flat as you can expect with plenty of thread left in my US 2019 3.6R legacy. I wonder if it's just a quality control thing at SSD. I was pretty impressed with the construction of it so I'm fairly surprised people are having issues.

[XT-sub]

Mine also dropped right into place and sat at flat as you can expect with plenty of thread left in my US 2019 3.6R legacy. I wonder if it's just a quality control thing at SSD. I was pretty impressed with the construction of it so I'm fairly surprised people are having issues.

 

Thanks, I wondered how yours fitted.

 

I too am impressed with the build quality & finish. I find SSD’s support to be also excellent.

 

I think the difference is in build between vehicles. Just one example is in the struts. On the Outback the front strut part numbers vary between year models (e.g. 2015/16/17 US 3.6R & 2.5i models have the same part numbers for the front struts, while the 2018/19 US 3.6R & 2.5i models share the same part number which is different to 2015/16/17 US models. And my Australian 2019 3.6R Outback has a different number to the US cars). I think this explains the difference in stud length that I have on my vehicle.

 

I also wonder what the tolerance is when measured between the LHS studs & the RHS studs (e.g. the measurement between the front LHS stud to the front RHS stud). My guess is all vehicles won’t be identical when measured across there.

[XT-sub]

I’ll try & get the photos of mine posted up tonight for completeness.

 

Below are the photos showing the modification I did to RHS end of my SSD brace. The LHS is the same. My end view cross section sketch of the LHS end shows where the gap was between the top of the tower & the brace in the immediate area around the front stud that I needed to eliminate.

 

After explaining to Mike at SSD the problem I was experiencing getting the brace to fit, and taking on board Mike’s explanation how the brace was designed to fit, I realised I wouldn’t need to file away as much metal as I first thought.

 

By filing a bit at a time with a round file then checking the fit each time, I got the brace to pull down tight at the studs, & the part that I filed pulls down tight against the raised tapered section of the tower (pulling down tight here is important). I only had to remove about 2.0mm wide & about 2.0mm deep at the widest/deepest part. The cross section of the filed part appears to be straight 45 degrees in the photos but it is 45 degrees with a slight convex & smoothed edges.

 

The area that was filed is hard to see when the brace is fitted so I touched up the brace with some primer & black paint, & touched up the tower with white touch-up paint.

 

The only other issue was the amount of thread above the nuts after the brace was torqued down to 14.8ft/lb. I’m only getting about half a thread clear of each nut top. Wondering if I could do away with the supplied washers to gain more thread (the nuts are flange head nuts), Mike indicated that the washers are just to protect the powder coating so I could do away with them if I liked. I have some slightly thinner stainless steel washers in my workshop so I might just go with those - it would be a shame to damage the powder coating.

 

The brace is a quality item with the black blending in with the other black parts in the 3.6R's white engine bay.

 

All this is a solution to my vehicle only & may not apply to other vehicles.

 

[fenix787]

All this is a solution to my vehicle only & may not apply to other vehicles.

 

Your diagram perfectly shows what my problem is as well. Its rubbed the paint away along the small patch where it actually makes contact with that raised bump. Was it worth the time it took you to file it down? I honestly just wanted to bolt this on an be done with it...

[XT-sub]

Your diagram perfectly shows what my problem is as well. Its rubbed the paint away along the small patch where it actually makes contact with that raised bump. Was it worth the time it took you to file it down? I honestly just wanted to bolt this on an be done with it...

 

In my case, yes it was definitely worth the time & effort to make that modification, even though it was very time consuming. I’m quite happy how the brace now fits.

 

The paint on mine also rubbed away (see my earlier photos). The brace has been laser cut so the sharp 90º corner will do this if it doesn’t fit correctly. My guess is it will also cut into the paint even if it does fit correctly, because my understanding is it is designed to pull down hard in this area. Even after modifying mine I still expect it to damage the paint in that area because I only filed enough away so that it still pulls down hard in that area.

 

I have one very important question about the photos you posted:

 

(1). Is that gap with the nuts finger tight (lightly tightened)?

or

(2). Is that gap with the nuts torqued to the correct torque? (or estimated correct torque if you don’t have a torque wrench).

 

If (1) above, then it should pull down tight by tightening it to the correct torque so there’s no gap in the immediate area around all the studs. This is about the gap I now get before torqueing the nuts, but after torqueing the nuts it pulls down tight without any gaps in the immediate area around all the studs. There will be slight gaps at other parts of the brace though.

 

If (2) above, then that is definitely wrong. That gap, or probably a bit more than that, was what I had when all nuts were torqued correctly before I modified the brace.

 

I realise you have previously contacted SSD, but if you decide to modify your brace like mine, I would suggest contacting Mike at SSD & ask his advice about modifying your brace like this, referring him to this topic (I have previously sent photos, sketches & details of my problem along with a link to this topic so he may still remember this). There is a possibility that Mike may have even come up with a different solution to this.

 

If it helps, the following is the procedure I used for modifying both ends of my brace (this took over an hour per side):

 

• With the brace in place & tightened firmly, cut a small strip of masking tape & stick this to the top of the brace near where the raised tapered part of the tower is.
  
• Shine a small LED torch from underneath the brace on the engine side so the light beam can be seen shining through any gaps between the brace & tower.
  
• With a sharpie mark the high spots on the masking tape that need to be filed away.
  
• Put old towels or an old blanket on the floor so the brace’s powder coating won’t be damaged while filing the marked area with a round file.
  
• After filing less than the desired amount away, put the brace back in place, tighten firmly then check with the torch & mark a new strip of masking tape with the sharpie.
  
• Keep repeating this (be careful not to file too much away each time) so that the correct torque pulls the brace down hard against the raised tapered part of the tower & in the immediate area around all studs (no gaps in the stud area).
  
• When happy with the fit, clean & prime the filed area then apply a couple of coats of suitable black paint by brush & leave for a few days for the paint to harden.
  
• Using wet & dry paper cut back the rough spots on the tower where the paint has been removed (a lot will be removed while checking the above fit each time) & touch up with primer & colour to match the tower colour by brush.

I used a combination of the following: 12.5mm (1/2”) round file to do most of the filing, 4mm (5/32”) chain saw file for a slightly smoother finish, 180 & 240 wet & dry paper for finishing.

[fenix787]

I have one very important question about the photos you posted:

 

(1). Is that gap with the nuts finger tight (lightly tightened)?

or

(2). Is that gap with the nuts torqued to the correct torque? (or estimated correct torque if you don’t have a torque wrench).

 

My torque wrench only goes down to 20ft-lbs so I didn't use it, but my guess is I was torqued over the spec. Thanks for the detailed write up and photos. Not sure I trust myself to get it looking as good as yours does.

[XT-sub]

... but my guess is I was torqued over the spec. ...

 

Ok, then it needs some sort of modification. Don’t worry too much about how it looks, most will be out of sight.

 

I also paint touched-up inside the brace holes to prevent any possible rusting. With the tight fit, & putting it on & off a number of times checking the fit, some of the powder coating inside the holes peeled off.