ace2 Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 I have a 2004 GT Legacy Wagon and instrument lights have failed. Both turn indicator lights remain on all the time(but when used the correct one flashes) fuel gauge does not function(reads full all the time), no speedo or odometer reading, coolant temp stays on cold. Tacho functions correctly. It was like this for a few weeks then after I was doing some unrelated under-bonnet work it returned to normal but has now failed again. I strongly suspect an earth problem. Does anyone have any idea if it can be fixed without removing the cluster. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumbleRumble Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) Take it out and check the board for burns. Edited May 29, 2019 by RumbleRumble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 "Take it out and check the board for burns." Ok Thanks for that RumbleRumble I was hoping to fix without removing the cluster. I thought that that might be possible because the problem "self cured" immediately after I'd been working under bonnet(tightening A/C belt) and thought that I might have disturbed an earth point and reestablished good contact that had been bad. Correction to the defect list. Speedo is in fact working. I have a CEL on permanently(left bank O2 sensor heater) unrelated to the defect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 (edited) After examining wiring diagrams on WI-239, WI-271 and WI-284 at http://www.schnooze.com/files/legacy_manual/Legacy%20Wiring.pdf I'm almost certain the problem is in GROUND JOINT CONNECTOR 197 or the actual earth point to which it leads. Does anybody know the physical location of that connector? Edited August 19, 2019 by ace2 added pertinent WI-285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Toward the very end of that same manual there are a bunch of drawings that show where connectors are located in the car. On a LHD it looks like i97 is to the right of the glove box or maybe you can get to it from the kick panel. GB-3 the ground you are asking about looks to be somewhere along the right edge of the front of the center console or maybe in the right footwell. Pg WI-358. My Gen II has grounds on either side of the center kind of below the radio area. I think I found them by removing the center console trim around the shifter and pulling the carpet back from the part that comes down from the dash. But I don't know how similar your Gen III will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 OK doublechaz thanks very much for that. Mine is a RHD which I obviously should have mentioned. Looks like it won't be easy to find. Not at all surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just a page or two later is the drawings for the RHD. The connector designations are typically the same LHD vs. RHD. Those drawings are way better than I've seen for some manuals (with no drawings), but they definitely don't pin it down as exact as would be nice. You'll definitely have to check because they are not exact mirrors RHD vs. LHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Thanks again doublechaz. Would you agree with my diagnosis of the problem? Recap of situation. No instrument lights at all. Turn indicator lights remain on except when operating in which case the operating indicator blinks correctly; other remains on. Fuel gauge reads full at all times. No odometer No clock. All other functions are normal. Transmission position indicator functions normally and dims when headlights or driving lights on, ie normal. Vehicle is RHD 2002 Legacy etune GT wagon. History of the condition is that it failed to this identical condition and was like that for a few months. It then returned to normal(with no attempt at repair) and was normal for a few months until it then failed to this condition. Looking at circuit diagrams it appears that the ground buss has two earth points and many connections and so as all other functions are normal problem can not be an earth point. From memory when I recently removed the transmission surround I observed an earth point which was fine. I'd much appreciate any input from anyone. TIA Two errors in my first post on this subject. The vehicle is 2002 not 2004. The coolant temperature operates correctly, does not remain on cold. Edited August 20, 2019 by ace2 Additional information added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I didn't see anything in the diagrams that is clearly shared by the malfunctioning systems. There are a number of things that are ambiguously shared. The things I would check are the ground points along the center console because they are relatively easy to get to. I would check the connections of i10 and i11 ( I think ) at the back of the combination meter (instrument cluster). I have heard that later Gen IIs have trouble with the connection at the circuit board for the climate controls because of RoHS making the solder joints fail where the harness pulls down on it over time. I've heard similar things about clusters. There are a couple connectors on the Gen II cluster that are extremely easy to break as you are trying to get in there so watch what you are doing. They have a small board edge connector where you can hardly help pulling the wrong way on it as you try to get things undone. It might take printing off the relevant pages and carefully going through them with colored highlighters to see all the bits that could be the cause of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Thanks doublechaz will take my best care. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Removed glovebox(best accomplished with a sturdy axe). i97 directly behind, attached to 50(?)mm tubular steel xmember. Unplugged, examined. Clean as a whistle. Reconnected. Examined 2 earth points near transmission selector. Not a molecule of corrosion. Reattached. Removed cluster(multi instrument). Unplugged connector RHS. Observed slight amount of semi liquid black insulationy type stuff. Re-connected plug. Normal function of everything observed. Thanks to all for suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 So you are saying that the stickum on some tape melted and got into the connector and messed things up? And now it's fixed? I'd say the odds of that are precisely 3720 to 1. At least there wasn't a moth caught in the contacts of a relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace2 Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 So you are saying that the stickum on some tape melted and got into the connector and messed things up? And now it's fixed? I'd say the odds of that are precisely 3720 to 1. Yup, you got it in one. Thanks for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I'm glad it's solved and documented here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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