What's the stock tire on 17'+ Legacys

[Woony1990]

My 15' Legacy came with Good Year LS-2 225/50R18 95H tires.

Since 2014 when I purchased the car, I've drove fairly low mileage, 20k miles, because I don't drive my car that much.

 

along the 20k miles, I had to change my tires 6 f***ing times because of bubbles in the sidewall of the tire. sorry for the language.. I had to say it.

 

Yes, I live in New York where there is more potholes than there is manhole.

BUT STILL!!! 6 sidewall bubbles within 20k miles?

 

At first, I thought it's the tire, but after 6th bubble, I am thinking.. okay.. there is something wrong.

 

I maintain 3 psi higher than the numbers on the placard placed in door jamb, meaning 36psi at the front and 35 psi at the back.. I check bi-monthly to make sure I have right amount of air in my tires. Yes I am pretty OCD about it. I don't tolerate any errors on the pressure, not even 0.5psi.

 

and I've always thought that my front tires "looked" under inflated because it was sagging too much. But hey! I've put 3 more psi than what the placard suggested, so I should be fine?

 

Nope! any pothole that is bigger than usual by slightest measure will put a bubble on the sidewall of the tire.

 

I know LS-2 tires are rated at 51 PSI for the MAX air pressure. I am now leaning towards the theory that placard number might be too DAMN low for the tire and I am going to put 80% of the Max PSI which is 41psi and see what happens.

 

This has been more of a rant but heck..I am curious if others at the forum have experienced similar situations like me.

[Brisvegas]

I maintain 3 psi higher than the numbers on the placard placed in door jamb, meaning 36psi at the front and 35 psi at the back.. I check bi-monthly to make sure I have right amount of air in my tires. Yes I am pretty OCD about it. I don't tolerate any errors on the pressure, not even 0.5psi.

I know LS-2 tires are rated at 51 PSI for the MAX air pressure. I am now leaning towards the theory that placard number might be too DAMN low for the tire and I am going to put 80% of the Max PSI which is 41psi and see what happens./QUOTE]

 

Tire pressures discussions have been posted many times here .... I brought it up again quite recently on another thread. My "tire rant" was mainly aimed at the low profile tires themselves, and their resultant poor vehicle handling and their inability to handle potholes and bad roads. But I also tend to agree with you about the pressures on the placard being too low. Your 36/35 psi setup is what I run. I'm not sure that I'd go to as high as 41, but I'd be interested how your new psi set up works out

[tornichoe]

Yes, I live in New York where there is more potholes than there is manhole.

BUT STILL!!! 6 sidewall bubbles within 20k miles?

 

At first, I thought it's the tire, but after 6th bubble, I am thinking.. okay.. there is something wrong.

 

 

And that would be your driving. If you hit a pot hole at a higher speed, no matter what tire you use (unless you get some big ass truck tires), you will break up the beading or worse have a bent rim.

[upstater]

I don't think increasing the tire pressure reduces the impact of those potholes, it actually will probably transmit more shock to the sidewalls.

 

I run stock psi, and try to steer around potholes.

 

If you live where the roads are that terrible, it sounds like your only option is to run cheap tires and replace them as they get destroyed, though if you were politically active, you might also start lobbing for increased infrastructure spending to help solve the actual issue.

[Woony1990]

I'm not sure that I'd go to as high as 41, but I'd be interested how your new psi set up works out

 

I haven't got to drive long distance or freeway yet, but after short trips, I can already feel that car wants to straighten up more. Steering is bit more responsive, and I purposely went over some bumps and surprisingly, for small bumps, car feels more stable. Suspension does better job absorbing those impact. less bouncy and more firm feeling. could be bad for people with bad back but I like this firmer feeling better. Before, it was more uncontrolled bouncy style of absorbing the impact. My concern is with bigger potholes and bumps because, from my experience I know dampers in 15' legacys are not that great for absorbing larger potholes.. but I haven't got to test that yet.

 

 

And that would be your driving. If you hit a pot hole at a higher speed, no matter what tire you use (unless you get some big ass truck tires), you will break up the beading or worse have a bent rim.

 

May be, or maybe not. I am not a grandpa driver, I drive fast but I also try to avoid as many potholes as I can. and I am telling you, I work at a transportation company.. I take care of 30 cars in my company.. I know this isn't just my driving style. Oh btw, one of the 6 bubbles was done by my father in law. He is not an aggressive driver. He only had to go over ONE SINGLE pothole for the bubble.

 

I don't think increasing the tire pressure reduces the impact of those potholes, it actually will probably transmit more shock to the sidewalls.

 

Bubbles are formed from breakage of the reinforced beading on the sidewall of the tire. What's happening is that when you hit a pothole or a curb, the tire collapses enough, sometimes even to a degree that it hits the rim of the wheel, and the steel beading on the side gets snapped and become broken. So the idea is that by putting more air in the tire, we are stiffening up the sidewall of the tire making the ride harsher(sportier in some sense) but they are less likely to form a sidewall bubble from a collapse.

[Learjet45]

So here's an idea... Have you tried running the tires at the recommended pressure? OEMs don't just pull that number out of thin air. Millions of dollars get spent developing new models, and part of that involves figuring out the optimal tire pressure. Your personal belief that the tire visually appears under-inflated at the recommended pressure is not exactly a great basis for making a change from what Subaru spent a lot of time and money to determine.

 

For what it's worth, I have a 2016 Legacy 3.6R with the original Goodyear Eagle LS-2 tires. I drive in Michigan which is also one of the worst states for potholes and bad roads. I've had no issues with sidewall bubbles, and I keep my tires at the recommended pressure.

[tornichoe]

May be, or maybe not. I am not a grandpa driver, I drive fast but I also try to avoid as many potholes as I can.

 

You don't have to be a grandpa driver to break a beading or bend a rim. You could be doing 30 mph and you get the right shaped one that hits at the weakest spot and there you have it.

 

You may be doing the tires more harm by over inflating them. The beading is already getting stretched and is under stress and any pothole you hit is causing it to fracture. At the right pressure or slightly lower, it has a bit more room to flex.

Now it may be protecting your wheel a bit by doing so and taking the brunt of the impact. But at the right right point it should protect both.

 

The cost of poor infrastructure is very high. It just goes into someone else's books. So like upstater mentioned, get your elected officials to vote on infrastructure spending or vote for ones that align with that.

 

Also, running a higher pressure doesn't make it sporty (harsher, yes. Every bump causes the tire/wheel to bounce around even more). Its the opposite. All you are getting is a smaller thread contact patch resulting in less grip with the surface.

If fishtailing = sporty for you, ignore the the paragraph above.

[Woony1990]

OEMs don't just pull that number out of thin air. Millions of dollars get spent developing new models, and part of that involves figuring out the optimal tire pressure.

 

I see this, in every other tire problem threads regarding psi. I really do want to believe this, but car makers deal with a lot of stupid things and sometimes they sacrifice one thing for another. They might have went lower psi for comfort ride, or may be 33 psi is the mid ground between non-run flats and run flats. Nobody knows. one thing I know is, car makers usually look at the curb weight to determine psi, and while it's a good starting point, it's not always perfect. There can't be one number that works for all tires from all different types and brands. I never said Subaru just pulls those number out of thin air, they have their reasons, and I find it doesn't work for me.

 

I am trying to figure out psi number that works for the LS-2, number that works for me. I don't have luxury of having tire pyrometer to see if I've actually over-inflated the tire, but real world experience shows a lot of evidence that I might have been running with under-inflated tires. that is all, if recommended psi works for you, great. but it wasn't for my case.

 

 

You don't have to be a grandpa driver to break a beading or bend a rim. You could be doing 30 mph and you get the right shaped one that hits at the weakest spot and there you have it.

 

You may be doing the tires more harm by over inflating them. The beading is already getting stretched and is under stress and any pothole you hit is causing it to fracture. At the right pressure or slightly lower, it has a bit more room to flex.

Now it may be protecting your wheel a bit by doing so and taking the brunt of the impact. But at the right right point it should protect both.

 

The cost of poor infrastructure is very high. It just goes into someone else's books. So like upstater mentioned, get your elected officials to vote on infrastructure spending or vote for ones that align with that.

 

Also, running a higher pressure doesn't make it sporty (harsher, yes. Every bump causes the tire/wheel to bounce around even more). Its the opposite. All you are getting is a smaller thread contact patch resulting in less grip with the surface.

If fishtailing = sporty for you, ignore the the paragraph above.

 

Of course right shaped pothole hitting a weak spot will increase the chance to create bubble but speed plays the bigger role. it's all about having enough momentum energy to break the beading. Sharper, deeper pothole will have more momentum energy but the weight of the car,speed of impact, counter resistance(air pressure), etc all plays the bigger role.

 

"You may be doing the tires more harm by over inflating them." I agree. But if you read my post carefully, I am suggesting that the placard numbers might actually be TOO low. I know over-inflated tires are bad for tires too, and it would have uneven wear too. but you know what's even more dangerous? under-inflated tires. it will destroy tires quick. My statement here is that, with the placard, I am now thinking, we are under-inflating our tires.

 

lastly, sportier feeling is all subjective to each everyone. I didn't say it makes the car faster. actually from performance perspective, over-inflating the tires will have decreased braking performance, less tire life, oversteer, understeer, etc,etc. but then.. again, I am suggesting we might have been always under-inflated our tires for GY LS-2. Fishtailing is indeed sporty for some people. I enjoy it too but we don't do that in Legacy do we? Now, getting more response through the wheel to my steer, and more firm driving absolutely contributes to sportier driving. Not fast, but sporty.

[Jeff T]

My ride just clicked 91k with the original LS2's. Ride is crap, tires are noisy, borderline dangerous...

 

They will be swapped before winter...

 

In sales and 90% highway miles.

[tornichoe]

Yes, I live in New York where there is more potholes than there is manhole.

BUT STILL!!! 6 sidewall bubbles within 20k miles?

 

 

I was out in nyc last weekend; and I have to say I felt like I was holding onto dear life as the taxi drove over pot hole after pothole. It literally felt like the cab was just going to break apart into little pieces.

 

Now, I'm just surprised you only have 6 sidewall bubbles!

[Brisvegas]

I see this, in every other tire problem threads regarding psi. I really do want to believe this, but car makers deal with a lot of stupid things and sometimes they sacrifice one thing for another. They might have went lower psi for comfort ride, or may be 33 psi is the mid ground between non-run flats and run flats. Nobody knows. one thing I know is, car makers usually look at the curb weight to determine psi, and while it's a good starting point, it's not always perfect. There can't be one number that works for all tires from all different types and brands. I never said Subaru just pulls those number out of thin air, they have their reasons, and I find it doesn't work for me. if recommended psi works for you, great. but it wasn't for my case.

"You may be doing the tires more harm by over inflating them." I agree. But if you read my post carefully, I am suggesting that the placard numbers might actually be TOO low. I know over-inflated tires are bad for tires too, and it would have uneven wear too. but you know what's even more dangerous? under-inflated tires. it will destroy tires quick. My statement here is that, with the placard, I am now thinking, we are under-inflating our tires.

 

 

 

Well said .... I agree with your reasoning.