Building Frankenmotors

[Setnev]

Since baby is coming in the next few weeks and flipping cars is very time consuming, I've decided to start building frankenmotors for resale. I figure I can assemble a complete motor in about 4 hours, so this is the perfect weekend project to make some extra cash.

 

I've worked out a pretty good formula that will yield from a mild 89 octane friendly 10.5:1 to a very radical 91/93 octane required 11.8:1 compression ratio. I also have worked out ways to build the reverse frankenmotor (low compression) for NA-T applications that will happily withstand 6-9 lbs of boost.

 

I've already started building a test bench that will allow me to hook up an assembled motor to run it through it's tests before I send it off to the new owner. At this time, I am looking at Phase 1, turnkey and longblock motor swaps, so anyone running a 96-99 EJ25 or 95-98 EJ22 should be able to swap in one of my motors and go. I plan on doing Phase 2 engines, but they're a little more intricate.

[doublechaz]

Sounds nice.

[eagleeye]

cool to see if you can turn some that are non-interference.

 

maybe people would want such things for VW vans, dunebuggies,

and trike motorcycles that run on old VW power.

[Setnev]

cool to see if you can turn some that are non-interference.

 

maybe people would want such things for VW vans, dunebuggies,

and trike motorcycles that run on old VW power.

 

I thought about that for that market. There are a lot of people out here into converting the old VW's to a Subaru motor. I brought the stuff to my shop today to start building the test rig in a couple weeks. I have one more car in the shop that I have to finish flipping and finish moving into my shop and out of my old house before I start. Baby is coming very soon. Wife already started pre-labor on Friday. She is on board with the idea. I'm going to start with stock engines first and work my way up from there. I have three engines in my shop at the moment not designated for a vehicle; an EJ25D, an EJ223, and a version 1 EZ30D.

 

The H6 is getting some exploratory surgery done to it before I decide to rebuild it or not. It was in my wife's old car and it's either got a blown head gasket, severely warped heads, cracked heads, or a combo of the three. It was overheated pretty bad, well over 260 degrees to the point where it died in the middle of the road. Pretty sure the radiator was completely empty when it died.

 

So the EJ223 will be getting some dual port heads and the EJ25D will be getting torn down and sent to the machine shop. It's got a warped block but is relatively low mileage with 140,000 miles on it.

[eagleeye]

 

The H6 is getting some exploratory surgery done to it before I decide to rebuild it or not. It was in my wife's old car and it's either got a blown head gasket, severely warped heads, cracked heads, or a combo of the three. It was overheated pretty bad, well over 260 degrees to the point where it died in the middle of the road. Pretty sure the radiator was completely empty when it died.

 

So the EJ223 will be getting some dual port heads and the EJ25D will be getting torn down and sent to the machine shop. It's got a warped block but is relatively low mileage with 140,000 miles on it.

 

if you got something to put it in

 

seems like the EZ30D is "way" beyond fixing vs. rounding up a JDM 212hp for $600-700.

 

there is a importer in phoenix that people on the outback board discuss....or at least they "had them" at one time. I don't see them listed at JDM Arizona today, if that was the place. (one might have to call the ones around phoenix and ask,...or maybe look to the port of long beach, cali).

 

I hope the JDM imports keep getting them as its a whole lot cheaper then doing a long hard slog for head gaskets on the EZ30D. (risk vs. reward, sanity is priceless, and a bad thing in the end is a whole lot of time and money wasted).

 

and I am surprised anyone would want to work with a melted EJ25D. vs. rounding up a EJ22, or EJ251.

 

melted subaru engines= "scrap cast aluminum".

[Setnev]

if you got something to put it in

 

seems like the EZ30D is "way" beyond fixing vs. rounding up a JDM 212hp for $600-700.

 

there is a importer in phoenix that people on the outback board discuss....or at least they "had them" at one time. I don't see them listed at JDM Arizona today, if that was the place. (one might have to call the ones around phoenix and ask,...or maybe look to the port of long beach, cali).

 

I hope the JDM imports keep getting them as its a whole lot cheaper then doing a long hard slog for head gaskets on the EZ30D. (risk vs. reward, sanity is priceless, and a bad thing in the end is a whole lot of time and money wasted).

 

and I am surprised anyone would want to work with a melted EJ25D. vs. rounding up a EJ22, or EJ251.

 

melted subaru engines= "scrap cast aluminum".

 

I've pretty much resorted to the fact that I was going to never use that motor in another car due to it's history. I've never torn down a H6, even with owning a SVX, so it's being sacrificed in the name of science. I eventually will H6 swap my Forester. We replaced it with, what I thought could have been, a JDM test motor (had a build date of 10/05) that looked like it was barely ran. I mean the exhaust ports were immaculate and so were the valves inside. I bought it from a place called Top Tier Japan in Phoenix for around $800. It was the lowest price I found because every place in Phoenix I found wanted $1000-1200 for a "Gen 1" EZ30D. This place had it listed for $1100 on its website but when I called them, they said that price was with free 48 state shipping and if I were to come get it, they'd sell it to me for $800, so I made the 2 hour drive and loaded it into the back of my Outback. I have the build thread on the 3rd Gen forum. Hell Cat Outback Build.

[twisty]

i think we need to meet up sometime and have a few beers and a conversation about this stuff. i have a lot of engines that are screaming to get mashed together, haha.

 

also, what year makes it a "gen 1" ez30? im thinking of putting a 2001 ez30 into one of my outbacks, i have the full car for parts/ harness/ whatevers

[eagleeye]

i think we need to meet up sometime and have a few beers and a conversation about this stuff. i have a lot of engines that are screaming to get mashed together, haha.

 

also, what year makes it a "gen 1" ez30? im thinking of putting a 2001 ez30 into one of my outbacks, i have the full car for parts/ harness/ whatevers

 

US /Canadian spec years:

 

phase 1: 2001-2004 EZ30D = 212hp/ 210 torque. metal intake. mated to 4EAT

 

phase 2: 2005-2009 EZ30D = 250hp / 219 torque, plastic intake. mated to 5EAT.

(sometimes called the EZ30R,...and not that much faster behind the wheel the earlier ones, lots more wires,

....this one was in early tribeca too before they got the first EZ36 ).

 

JDM importers may list the above in the specific world spec years the engines were used in the cars there: like 212hp = JDM 99-02 in the BE/BH bodies.

 

_________

 

if tempted to play mix and match you need a proper ECU/TCU and all the wiring or some tuner to fix the problems that arise. dragging and dropping, not so easy. ...going blind on wires is

 

something interesting to do as a mix / match project.

get a paired 250hp EZ30 that was mated to a manual trans in the JDM,...and they are still hooked together. (a couple years of Aussie and Kiwi cars had manuals too,....but still pretty rare and sought after).

 

people doing projects like dropping them into non-native bodies have two things. lots of time, or a pit crew that drinks non-alcoholic beer.

 

_____

 

and beware on 2001 US spec there seems to be a lot of head gasket swaps to JDM. around 180,000 miles. (what you got maybe great though)

 

but more EZ30 discussion happens on the outback board. as subaru was slow in putting EZ30 in anything but those for a long long time. (at least in the US/Canadian markets).

[twisty]

i finally picked up the totaled 2001 with the ez30 in it, 299k miles on it and the damage was barely enough to consider totaled. i pulled the rad support out, replaced the top hose and put a battery in it to drive it home. i'm thinking i may keep the engine in the car until it fries, then decide if it will live in an older car or continue in the original body

[RustyRuu]

I want to do one of these except in a 3rd gen, at 240k miles and almost 50k on a rebuilt ej251. I just replaced a transmission and want to keep moving forward.

 

I have a EJ22e but think any later ej222 (Heads at least) or something interference would work better.

 

N/A builds are put on a backburner on this forum and they are really pretty neat.

 

i'm curious about valve train. anything for higher rpms, or anything that gives any slight advantage( to service or reliability).

 

any thoughts?

[Setnev]

i think we need to meet up sometime and have a few beers and a conversation about this stuff. i have a lot of engines that are screaming to get mashed together, haha.

 

also, what year makes it a "gen 1" ez30? im thinking of putting a 2001 ez30 into one of my outbacks, i have the full car for parts/ harness/ whatevers

 

That would be fun. Always willing to welcome a fellow Subaru owner to my shop. Us "slowbaru" guys need to stick together. Eagleeye pretty much nailed it on the P1/P2 designation. Officially Subaru never called the 2005-2009 the EZ30R or ever called it a Phase 2. As far as drilling even deeper, there is actually 2 versions of the Gen 1 EZ30D. The 01-02 (version 1) was slightly different than the 03-04 (version 2). 03 saw revised chain guides and tensioners, brand new serpentine belt tensioner design, and new water pump and thermostat design to alleviate the concerns of customers complaining their cooling fans would run in low mode for a long time. All of the revisions can be done to the version 1 engine for a price. The last one I swapped I did all the modifications to it. Gen 1 and Gen 2 are not interchangeable, even with swapping the intake. The whole motor requires CANBUS and is a pain in the ass.

 

i finally picked up the totaled 2001 with the ez30 in it, 299k miles on it and the damage was barely enough to consider totaled. i pulled the rad support out, replaced the top hose and put a battery in it to drive it home. i'm thinking i may keep the engine in the car until it fries, then decide if it will live in an older car or continue in the original body

 

You're going to be waiting a long time for it to fry. Those EZ30 motors were even more bulletproof than the old EJ22's due to the timing chain vs belt. If the chain guides were replaced at any time in it's life, that motor will go for a million miles, no lie.

 

I want to do one of these except in a 3rd gen, at 240k miles and almost 50k on a rebuilt ej251. I just replaced a transmission and want to keep moving forward.

 

I have a EJ22e but think any later ej222 (Heads at least) or something interference would work better.

 

N/A builds are put on a backburner on this forum and they are really pretty neat.

 

i'm curious about valve train. anything for higher rpms, or anything that gives any slight advantage( to service or reliability).

 

any thoughts?

 

If you're considering swapping a H6 into a 3rd gen, you're better off selling the H4 and buying an LL Bean. There is just enough of a difference that you'll need a donor car, and then what's the point. You get so much more in a LL Bean or VDC wagon than you'll have in your current chassis.

[eagleeye]

That would be fun. Always willing to welcome a fellow Subaru owner to my shop. Us "slowbaru" guys need to stick together. Eagleeye pretty much nailed it on the P1/P2 designation. Officially Subaru never called the 2005-2009 the EZ30R or ever called it a Phase 2. As far as drilling even deeper, there is actually 2 versions of the Gen 1 EZ30D. The 01-02 (version 1) was slightly different than the 03-04 (version 2). 03 saw revised chain guides and tensioners, brand new serpentine belt tensioner design, and new water pump and thermostat design to alleviate the concerns of customers complaining their cooling fans would run in low mode for a long time. All of the revisions can be done to the version 1 engine for a price. The last one I swapped I did all the modifications to it. Gen 1 and Gen 2 are not interchangeable, even with swapping the intake. The whole motor requires CANBUS and is a pain in the ass.

 

 

 

You're going to be waiting a long time for it to fry. Those EZ30 motors were even more bulletproof than the old EJ22's due to the timing chain vs belt. If the chain guides were replaced at any time in it's life, that motor will go for a million miles, no lie.

 

 

 

If you're considering swapping a H6 into a 3rd gen, you're better off selling the H4 and buying an LL Bean. There is just enough of a difference that you'll need a donor car, and then what's the point. You get so much more in a LL Bean or VDC wagon than you'll have in your current chassis.

 

the good thing about those EZ30D of Us spec 2001-2004, they make a noticeable tapping noise from inside the timing chain cover when it is time to open them up.

 

from my readings,...180,000 is when the 2001 kind might need such timing chain maint. ...but no tapping = no reason to crack it open,...and subaru water pumps last like 250,000 to forever, so no need to fiddle with things that are not broke yet. (earliest one I read of was a kind of ignored/abused 2002 that needed timing chain work around 100,000 miles ).

 

AND. in buying used: just got to fire one up and let it get hot: looking for misfires on one side, then exhaust gases in the coolant. ...and then it needs a JDM.

 

valve covers dry up and leak,...people put the wrong plugs in, and put JUNK parts store reman alternators on (like made and used x2 in beater impalas).......and then smart buyers just snap them up and fix the. and try to get 400,000 miles on them.

[Setnev]

just got to fire one up and let it get hot: looking for misfires on one side, then exhaust gases in the coolant. ...and then it needs a JDM.

 

That is exactly what happened to the one that I bought. Got super hot, misfire was in cylinder 2,4, and 6, exhaust gasses found in the coolant and swapped with a JDM motor and sold it. Broke even, but someone got a badass car that will last forever! Guy that bought it still texts me on occasion to ask me little questions about it, so I know it's been working out for him.

 

As far as building motors, I am scooping up totaled wrecks at auction that don't run or drive and ripping them apart. If they don't run or drive and are wrecked enough, I can pick them up for less than $100-150 and have them shipped to me for $200. $400 isn't a bad investment for an engine I'm going to sell for 4 times that, not to mention parts from the car, and then selling the shell to a junkyard for $75. The yard doesn't even bother putting the shell in the yard, just goes to the crusher. I missed out on a 98 Outback Sport that was in a bad side impact that the buy it now price was $150 and it had 180k miles on it.

 

I have two engines in my garage right now awaiting a complete rebuild and I've got to inventory my parts I have at the moment and get them online for sale. Baby is coming tomorrow morning, so projects are going on hold for a few weeks.

[eagleeye]

That is exactly what happened to the one that I bought. Got super hot, misfire was in cylinder 2,4, and 6, exhaust gasses found in the coolant and swapped with a JDM motor and sold it. Broke even, but someone got a badass car that will last forever! Guy that bought it still texts me on occasion to ask me little questions about it, so I know it's been working out for him.

 

As far as building motors, I am scooping up totaled wrecks at auction that don't run or drive and ripping them apart. If they don't run or drive and are wrecked enough, I can pick them up for less than $100-150 and have them shipped to me for $200. $400 isn't a bad investment for an engine I'm going to sell for 4 times that, not to mention parts from the car, and then selling the shell to a junkyard for $75. The yard doesn't even bother putting the shell in the yard, just goes to the crusher. I missed out on a 98 Outback Sport that was in a bad side impact that the buy it now price was $150 and it had 180k miles on it.

 

I have two engines in my garage right now awaiting a complete rebuild and I've got to inventory my parts I have at the moment and get them online for sale. Baby is coming tomorrow morning, so projects are going on hold for a few weeks.

 

 

you buying from Copart, IAA, or $$ Manheim?

[Das Ninjabot]

Baby is coming tomorrow morning, so projects are going on hold for a few weeks.

 

Congrats man!

[twisty]

congrats on the kid!

 

ill likely be up in that area once in a while, my sons roommate (and a friend of mine) is moving to chino valley next weekend. hes gonna use some of my firepower while he is taking gunsmithing courses. ill let you know when im around that area, mebbe meet up and chew the fat a while.

 

also, im about done straightening the front of that car out. only real change is that im gonna use hood pins instead of the oem latch, the cable is stretched out pretty bad, the lock is bent a bit from the accident and the hood wont sit right with it all in place. hoping to have that sucker on the road this weekend!

 

the first day i had it i burped the system and let it idle for about an hour while messing with the supports and hood stuff, didnt budge on the temp. then took it on long drive in the hills for about an hour, then down lower sycamore for about 30 or 40 minutes. temp stayed the same, im pretty content with the stability so far.

[RustyRuu]

 

If you're considering swapping a H6 into a 3rd gen, you're better off selling the H4 and buying an LL Bean. There is just enough of a difference that you'll need a donor car, and then what's the point. You get so much more in a LL Bean or VDC wagon than you'll have in your current chassis.

 

Nope, not at all, I thought this was the frankenmotor thread... haha

 

was wanting do a high compression build for my 3rd gen.

 

just curious about valve-trains if there is any advantage to any, like running HLA over whatever the mechanically adjustable ones are called. or any valve springs from another model that could potentially be stiffer for safer higher reving.

[Setnev]

you buying from Copart, IAA, or $$ Manheim?

 

Copart seems to have the better fee structure, although IAAI seems to have more inventory of Subarus than Copart does. IAAI nickels and dimes you and it's hard for them to release your car to a shipper once it's paid for. I don't have a dealer license to shop at Manheim and their fees are worse than IAAI.

 

Copart quotes me shipping at the end of the auction, which is usually reasonable (~250 for a running/driving) but is outrageous for complete wrecks that can't freely roll. That is when I usually get a 3rd party towing company to retrieve it for me.

 

Congrats man!

 

Thanks, we're home as of yesterday afternoon after 3 days in the hospital. Everything went great and we're happy to have baby finally.

 

congrats on the kid!

 

ill likely be up in that area once in a while, my sons roommate (and a friend of mine) is moving to chino valley next weekend. hes gonna use some of my firepower while he is taking gunsmithing courses. ill let you know when im around that area, mebbe meet up and chew the fat a while.

 

also, im about done straightening the front of that car out. only real change is that im gonna use hood pins instead of the oem latch, the cable is stretched out pretty bad, the lock is bent a bit from the accident and the hood wont sit right with it all in place. hoping to have that sucker on the road this weekend!

 

the first day i had it i burped the system and let it idle for about an hour while messing with the supports and hood stuff, didnt budge on the temp. then took it on long drive in the hills for about an hour, then down lower sycamore for about 30 or 40 minutes. temp stayed the same, im pretty content with the stability so far.

 

You seriously won't find a better motor than that H6. Reliability and performance that beats the EJ22. Only disservice Subaru did was mating it to a 4EAT. I mean, they did give it a 45/55 torque split ratio, but it just robs about 25HP from those motors.

 

Nope, not at all, I thought this was the frankenmotor thread... haha

 

was wanting do a high compression build for my 3rd gen.

 

just curious about valve-trains if there is any advantage to any, like running HLA over whatever the mechanically adjustable ones are called. or any valve springs from another model that could potentially be stiffer for safer higher reving.

 

Solid lifters is how Subaru was able to boost the horsepower and fuel economy of the EJ22. They're also a pain in the ass to adjust if your timing is off. The EJ25 uses HLA lifters which are great because they require no adjustment. The advantage to going to a stiffer valve spring is if you're going to spending a lot of time in higher RPMs, like at a track. For daily driving, you might not notice it as you're increasing your horsepower in the mid range and without boost, you're likely going to be falling off that torque curve by the time correcting any valve float would be beneficial.

[RustyRuu]

I have the mechanical style in my EJ251, since i just adjusted them when i did a driver side valve cover gasket and most of them (6 out of 8) were a bit loose from 45k-ish miles ago. so I will check the other side soon but its not leaking. The HLA lifters run so much quieter though too, until they fail, then it sounds like knock.

 

i was curious about the different valve springs because the ej253 has a Vtec like system with active cams, just sort of thought they would work better , or even if they would be that similar.

[Setnev]

I tend to stay away from the late 253s due to it's head design. The valvetrain design you're referring to is in the 2006+ motor with AVLS on the intake side. Unfortunately, in order to utilize this technology, it's ECU controlled.

 

I do, however, enjoy it's bottom end, which has some of the best pistons for a high compression build. Looking at the numbers, I did find that the 253 has a smaller dish, but larger combustion chamber to bring the compression back down to 9.75:1.

 

On a relevant note, I do know that a 253 block with 251 heads will give you at compression of 10.3:1 and throwing 25D heads on a stock 253 block with 253 HGs will give you 11:1 CR.

[doublechaz]

Congratulations on the mini person. Good to hear it went well.

[twisty]

On a relevant note, I do know that a 253 block with 251 heads will give you at compression of 10.3:1 and throwing 25D heads on a stock 253 block with 253 HGs will give you 11:1 CR.

 

this is exactly my next build i want to attempt, 253 with 25d heads. i have a set of 1996 or 1997 heads to work with.

[Setnev]

this is exactly my next build i want to attempt, 253 with 25d heads. i have a set of 1996 or 1997 heads to work with.

 

Same here. I'm currently in the process of tracking down an EJ253, but not exactly having much luck. I'd love to put that combo in my 99 Outback until I can get my turbo swap.

[twisty]

i have a complete 253 that is supposed to be in good working order, as well as a 96 and 97 ej25 with spun bearings and good top ends. also a couple 205s and assorted parts laying around haha. once i get this 2001 up and running and recover my 96 outback im going to be starting in on one of those engine builds for the 97 outback.

[RustyRuu]

are the EJ25D heads phase 1 or 2? and if you did run into trouble can you run a SOHC cam sprocket on, what i imagine, would be the DOHC intake sprocket location to make the ecu and things match better... It would make sense if it would not work but would be sweet if it did.