Leggy_gt Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hey all, new on here but I have a problem with my 2005 legacy gt. I purchased the car 6 months ago with 189k. A tad on the high side, but I was given a good deal and the car is clean and well taken care of. About 3 months in i was taking a drive down to the beach and was showing off to my dad (long time rav4 owner) what a turbo car is like, i hit full boost and bounced off the rev limited on accident in the heat of the moment. The car noticeably changed pitch and lost some power, but no knocking or ginding; nothing like that. I pulled over at a very conveniently placed napa parts store and started pulling plugs. Plug number one had the electrode pushed down onto the iridium pin and wasnt sparking, put a new plug in and it ran perfectly fine... For about a month till ot did the aame thing. However, with a new plug it fixed it yet again. About a month goes by with no issues till one day it does it a third time. I shut off the car and go inside of walmart (happened to be in the parking lot when yhis happened) and picked up a plug, when i returned to my car i attemted to start it and was greeted with an awful knock. Ill include pics of the plug but does anyone have any clue what this could be or how it ran fine for a month or so in between episodes?? Thanks in advance! -C olby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Hey all, new on here but I have a problem with my 2005 legacy gt. I purchased the car 6 months ago with 189k. A tad on the high side, but I was given a good deal and the car is clean and well taken care of. About 3 months in i was taking a drive down to the beach and was showing off to my dad (long time rav4 owner) what a turbo car is like, i hit full boost and bounced off the rev limited on accident in the heat of the moment. The car noticeably changed pitch and lost some power, but no knocking or ginding; nothing like that. I pulled over at a very conveniently placed napa parts store and started pulling plugs. Plug number one had the electrode pushed down onto the iridium pin and wasnt sparking, put a new plug in and it ran perfectly fine... For about a month till ot did the aame thing. However, with a new plug it fixed it yet again. About a month goes by with no issues till one day it does it a third time. I shut off the car and go inside of walmart (happened to be in the parking lot when yhis happened) and picked up a plug, when i returned to my car i attemted to start it and was greeted with an awful knock. Ill include pics of the plug but does anyone have any clue what this could be or how it ran fine for a month or so in between episodes?? Thanks in advance! -C olbyThis is the plug from cylinder 1 Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 A compression test and leak down may tell you if there is a issue in that cylinder. Then you'll know your in for a new short block and have the heads rebuilt. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 A compression test and leak down may tell you if there is a issue in that cylinder. Then you'll know your in for a new short block and have the heads rebuilt.Compression test came back at 20psi on cylinder 1. What should be the first course of action for diagnosing? Cut to the chase and pull the motor? Or is there a way to pull the heads with the motor in the car? Apologies if this has already been duscussed somewhere else im just wondering for my specific situation. Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 This is quite a curious story. I've had a piston failure that sucked bits of the top compression ring into the combustion chamber and, because it was a diesel, hammered them into the piston top. Something like that might cause that kind of damage in a gas engine. Except: You say you don't hear anything until after a while. Same story 3 times. If 3 times but not immediately, how can it be permanent damage to the piston? How is it that the ceramic somehow survives every time?? 20PSI is either a major hole in a valve, or a forked piston. Pull the head on that side and you'll have your answer. If the engine is stock, it can be done in the car, but it is almost the same amount of work to pull the engine and make up the time spent with the easier head pull. Your choice. 95% chance this is going to be more than a head refurbish, but you might get lucky. Or just drive it until something really breaks that is unequivocal --- then you also have an answer. Depends on how deep your pockets are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Ok, new theory. Piston number 1 is slowly coming apart and feeding bits of ring and/or hardened ringland into the combustion chamber. It rattles around in there for a bit and then exits. You replace the plug and drive it for a while until another piece gets sucked in. Repeat. The devil-may-care option would be to continue to drive it. If you hear some bad sounds, boot it and wait for the bits to clear out through the exhaust valve. When it gets so bad your neighbours start complaining, pull the motor and do a full rebuild! Sounds like you are still running the stock exhaust, so you have a cat upstream of the turbo that will catch those nasty bits before they get into the turbine wheel Which you definitely don't want. In the meantime, source a good used head. What you see on the plugs is going to be even worse on the inside of the combustion chamber, meaning, that head is almost certainly scrap at rebuild time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 This is quite a curious story. I've had a piston failure that sucked bits of the top compression ring into the combustion chamber and, because it was a diesel, hammered them into the piston top. Something like that might cause that kind of damage in a gas engine. Except: You say you don't hear anything until after a while. Same story 3 times. If 3 times but not immediately, how can it be permanent damage to the piston? How is it that the ceramic somehow survives every time?? 20PSI is either a major hole in a valve, or a forked piston. Pull the head on that side and you'll have your answer. If the engine is stock, it can be done in the car, but it is almost the same amount of work to pull the engine and make up the time spent with the easier head pull. Your choice. 95% chance this is going to be more than a head refurbish, but you might get lucky. Or just drive it until something really breaks that is unequivocal --- then you also have an answer. Depends on how deep your pockets are!I have a buddy who will sell me a stock ej255 short block from an 07 wrx for 100$ so maybe I can weasel out of thjs for relatively inexpensive, im fairly certain the block should work fine, maybe pistons are different from lgt pistons? Who knows. Ill start tearing apart the motor this monday and update with what i find. Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Ok, new theory. Piston number 1 is slowly coming apart and feeding bits of ring and/or hardened ringland into the combustion chamber. It rattles around in there for a bit and then exits. You replace the plug and drive it for a while until another piece gets sucked in. Repeat. The devil-may-care option would be to continue to drive it. If you hear some bad sounds, boot it and wait for the bits to clear out through the exhaust valve. When it gets so bad your neighbours start complaining, pull the motor and do a full rebuild! Sounds like you are still running the stock exhaust, so you have a cat upstream of the turbo that will catch those nasty bits before they get into the turbine wheel Which you definitely don't want. In the meantime, source a good used head. What you see on the plugs is going to be even worse on the inside of the combustion chamber, meaning, that head is almost certainly scrap at rebuild time.Do you know if an ej25 block from an impreza 2.5rs non turbo will work if i get a new crank/rods/piston/heads? I have one lying around. Attempted to put in a new plug and thw knock is still present so im thinking rebuild time is sooner rather than later... Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 You would have to make sure you match up the head gasket to that ej25. Most of us get a new ej257 from Subaru. see my click here link in my sig. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Do you know if an ej25 block from an impreza 2.5rs non turbo will work if i get a new crank/rods/piston/heads? I have one lying around. It's not a good idea. The NA crankcase is a different design and not strong enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 Do you know if an ej25 block from an impreza 2.5rs non turbo will work if i get a new crank/rods/piston/heads? I have one lying around. Attempted to put in a new plug and thw knock is still present so im thinking rebuild time is sooner rather than later... Sent from my LG-D722 using TapatalkI think im going to buy a blok hard kit and fill the top of the coolant passages, anyone ever heard of this being done? I know some honda guys use DEVCON and all that but not a whole lot of info i could find on subie motors being converted to closed deck. Only reason i ask is because i have a perfectly good na ej25 block lying around i could use for very little money if this whole thing works. Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Do you have a spare car ? If you do and don't need to drive this everyday. Then yea, go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Do you have a spare car ? If you do and don't need to drive this everyday. Then yea, go ahead and do that. Let us know how it works out.I may try it, i just hope I dont screw myself due to never being able to leave things alone [emoji52] Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I know the new ej257 for $1800 sounds like a lot of money. But look at it this way, you know you have good short block. Your going to need all the other parts any ways, Then you know you have a good reliable car for many years. How long are your Winters...? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 A new shortblock saves you from having to do any machine work to the crankcase. You'd have a brand new crankshaft with improved material, new pistons, new rings, new bearings. Add all that up and it's really not a bad deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 I know the new ej257 for $1800 sounds like a lot of money. But look at it this way, you know you have good short block. Your going to need all the other parts any ways, Then you know you have a good reliable car for many years. How long are your Winters...?Here in maine the winters range from absolutely brutal to slush EVERYWHERE for 4 months. And you both are right on the short block, i guess im trying to weasel myself into the easiest outcome . i still dont know for sure that my block is fubar, it most likely is considering the (awful awful) noise- but fingers crossed i suppose. Sent from my LG-D722 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 You have reached that turning point. You need a plan. You don't necessarily need to open up the motor to make a plan. Your pistons and at least one head are toast. Time for a plan. If you look around this site, a rebuild is going to cost you upward of $5K if you do the basic work yourself and engage a competent machine shop for the precision jobs. If you want to drift from stock, add to that. The ultra low cost rebuild is probably the one documented by StKmitS. ZERO machine shop hours (amazing!) and $3700 all in. There is a depressingly small amount to be gained by rebuilding the short block vis a vis buying new from Heuberger ($1800-ish). I didn't believe that, so I rebuilt mine, with absolutely minimum machine shop work -- deck, hone and crank polish. But surprise(!), I had to buy two sets of bearings, fit graded pistons to the new bore dimensions, size rings etc. The block was test assembled at least 5 times before final. The result is good, but blueprint numbers are meh, compared to stock. Would I do it again? PM me. The remaining $3K or so is hard to avoid. Gasket set. Head work. Oil pump and cooler. Turbo refresh. Timing belt, gears maybe and water pump. Clutch while its out unless you are EAT. Belts and hoses. You get the idea. If you want to get back on the road (so-as to drive off happily into the sunset as another informed, Subi-GT-card-carrying-member of the rebuild club ), order up that new short block, pay to refresh/renew the other bits as required, and put it together yourself. I'm certainly not the first to come to this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 You have reached that turning point. You need a plan. You don't necessarily need to open up the motor to make a plan. Your pistons and at least one head are toast. Time for a plan. If you look around this site, a rebuild is going to cost you upward of $5K if you do the basic work yourself and engage a competent machine shop for the precision jobs. If you want to drift from stock, add to that. The ultra low cost rebuild is probably the one documented by StKmitS. ZERO machine shop hours (amazing!) and $3700 all in. There is a depressingly small amount to be gained by rebuilding the short block vis a vis buying new from Heuberger ($1800-ish). I didn't believe that, so I rebuilt mine, with absolutely minimum machine shop work -- deck, hone and crank polish. But surprise(!), I had to buy two sets of bearings, fit graded pistons to the new bore dimensions, size rings etc. The block was test assembled at least 5 times before final. The result is good, but blueprint numbers are meh, compared to stock. Would I do it again? PM me. The remaining $3K or so is hard to avoid. Gasket set. Head work. Oil pump and cooler. Turbo refresh. Timing belt, gears maybe and water pump. Clutch while its out unless you are EAT. Belts and hoses. You get the idea. If you want to get back on the road (so-as to drive off happily into the sunset as another informed, Subi-GT-card-carrying-member of the rebuild club ), order up that new short block, pay to refresh/renew the other bits as required, and put it together yourself. I'm certainly not the first to come to this conclusion. Luckily for me, my long time trusted machine shop told me it was cheaper for me to buy a new ej257 then pay them to rebuild my ej255. So glad I took their advice. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhd gvr4 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Ouch,poor spark plug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronic Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 You have something breaking up in the engine and smashing the plugs. your engine is dead. Probably something other than aluminium so its the likes of rings or something hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy_gt Posted February 10, 2019 Author Share Posted February 10, 2019 Old thread I know but in case anyone was wondering, It was ringlands. I dont know how it lasted so long how it did but that was the issue, $4,000 on a new long block and we've been back in business for a few months. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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