scratches/swirls inevitable?

[forestir]

For all you clean-car fans, who wash your cars every week or two, do you find that fine scratches are inevitable, regardless of the tools, process, and care you use?

 

Is that why annual or biannual polishing is required?

 

I ask because I recently bought a red Outback and after just one wash and wax, notice some fine swirl marks (only visible when contorting this way and that to try to see them).

I used car shampoo, chenille wash mitt, chamois to dry, Meguiar's Gold Class Wax with microfiber cloth to buff. I don't know which step in the process caused the scratches... the car wasn't that dirty to begin with. I basically followed all the recent advice on washing, other than not having a waffle-weave drying cloth (that I have since bought).

 

Anyway, hoping some other obsessive compulsive people had some experience with frequent washing and the inevitability of swirl marks.

 

[AWDxBOOST]

i think they will show up to some extent no matter what...especially on red and black cars

 

i have some damn near unnoticable ones, i can only see them with direct fluorescent light, i have a silver car tho

 

but im the same as you...no short cuts, only the best stuff on the car

[Guest *Jedimaster*]

Dark colors are easier to see defects on. That red is purty, I love black, but I went for silver because of just this problem.

 

Take a look at what you're using to clean and what your technique is- read up on ocdetails' site- there are some real basics that make a huge difference. And stay away from automatic car washes.

[forestir]

Yeah, I've read OCDetails, premiumautocare, detailcity. I think I'm doing it right, that's why I ask if it's inevitable anyway.

 

I previously had silver/gold cars and worse wash technique. They always looked good even though probably full of scratches (the better to refract the light with, eh?--bling, bling).

 

Agreed: No automatic car washes for me. I'm not even gonna let the dealer wash it for free.

[OCDetails]

I tend to wash the car once a week whether it needs it or not. Since I am sure that all that contact with the paint will invariably cause some surface scratches and swirls, all I can do to protect it is layer on the sealants or waxes. That way the minor minor surface marring that happens even when you are washing with the right tools may be contained in just the products I use on the surface. Make sense? That is one of the reasons I use 5 layers of Klasse Sealant Glaze on the car in the winter. Somehow through all the crap that gets on the car and all the salt that blows by it and everything else that winter brings, in the spring all I need to use is a paint cleaner and a mild swirl remover and the paint looks good as new. Sealants and waxes do more than just protect from UV rays. They can also provide some level of protection from minor swirls and scratches.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that you cannot avoid swirls. All you can do is minimize the severity and frequency of the swirls as they appear. Using the right tools, as it sounds like you are doing, is one excellent way to start. An ounce of prevention is worth way more than a pound of cure. Wash your car with a sponge and dry with a bath towel once a week for a year and I guarantee you that you'll spend 8 to 12 hours just in polishing out all the damage you caused. Use the proper tools and you can polish your car once or twice a year and maybe spend 2 or 3 hours a year on swirl removal. It is worth it to be careful from the beginning. Especially on Legacy paint.

[forestir]

Cool, thanks. Just wanted a sanity check.

 

I do hope the Wolfgang Polish Enhancer will conceal some of the micro-scratches--but it's not really noticable to mere mortals anyway... and then I'll start layering on the Wolfgang Sealant. Can't wait for the buttery goodness to wet my candy-apple (er, Garnet Red) Outback.

[Vahkil]

i have some damn near unnoticable ones, i can only see them with direct fluorescent light, i have a silver car tho

 

I got silver for this particular reason. My mother's 91 silver camry looks great and I don't think she washes but once every 5 months and waxes.. well I'm not sure she's seen a container of wax. Of course, the swirls might not be present for that reason alone. She never touches the car!

 

Anyways, I haven't noticed any swirls yet and I wash weekly or biweekly. Only down side is that silver doesn't look as good as a dark car all detailed up.

[wukindada]

I do not know if anyone else has this problem but in Florida we have what is called "Hard Water" I have a water treatment system & the house..RAINSOFT.

It broke about 3 weeks ago & it took the a week to come out & service it:( H.S. what a difference it makes in washing the car.

Just read the products label on premium car wash...Purified water..distilled water..ETC.

[Vahkil]

Yeah, the water is semi "hard" out here in southwestern VA with all the minerals in the ground I suppose. You have to dry the car off real quick to prevent spots.

[blitzenwannabe]

I just finished washing my brand new Legacy GT and noticed the same thing.

 

I also followed tips from people about a good rinse, wash from top to bottom, etc.

 

What do you guys think about touchless car wash where the washing mechanics move around the car and there are no rails?

[blitzenwannabe]

By the way... the swirls on the car is causing me tears in my eyes.

[mmanus88]

swirls suck, i know that for sure. i made the "mistake" of buying a black car, i shouldve gone with silver. there is always dirt on a car and water won't get a lot of it off, so when u are drying or using wash cloths (regardless of type) dirt will drag and make scratches/swirls. i find myself (can see myself) polishing my car once a week (no big deal only take 1.5 hours anyways), but it sucks. with all the technology they have now u'd think they can come up with a paint/coloring/clearcoat that is scratchproof. anyways, i had a little question for OCdetails myself:

 

i notice when i polish a car (or just observe it) that there are still these mini swirls everywhere. not too visible in sunlight, but u flash a bright spotlight u can see them close up. is this normal? i'm guesing that polishers can't make the paint PERFECT. btw i'm using ssr2.5 if u don't remember. thanks

[OCDetails]

Pretty much that is normal. In order to get rid of every mark on the paint you would have to step down your polishes from 2.5 to 1. It is possible to eliminate them all, but the effort is hardly worth the amount of time the swirls stay gone. They will be back in a week. I do that kind of thing before a show, but typically I stop at "good enough". There is no point in spending your life polishing the paint. At least that is what my wife tells me...

[mmanus88]

oh come now. your a big boy, choose how to waste your life away yourself

 

i actually b ought those bucket guard thingys from PAc, i am still waiting for them, i will give my input on them. i'm sure they will be effective

[blitzenwannabe]

Hey guys,

 

Sorry to drag this thread longer but the scratches and swirls are driving me insane.

 

I noticed some fairly long scratches definitely caused by debris while washing.

 

I am considering one of two things:

 

1) Ask the dealership to repaint clear coat

 

2) Ask professional detail shop to remove scratches / swirls.

 

Can somebody give me some suggestions/advice.

 

Thanks.

[mmanus88]

1. no

2. don't reccomend it, most "pro" detailers don't use the right equipment, and will use improper buffer tools that could make it worse, i have gone through 3 detailers in the past who promised to remove scratches/swirls, non delivered. get a PC and do it yourself.

 

those scratches caused by debri u speak of, i have the same problem. the PC and ssr2.5 only seem good for swirls/oxidation. this is a question toward's OCD's way.

 

i have those scratches that are just outlines (but not removed) when using the PC and ssr2.5 on my car. i know going with a stronger polish might not be safe, but i would really like to remove those fine scratches that ssr 2.5 can't take care of. these scratches haven't gone through the paint, but are too deep in clearcoat for 2.5 to do anything i guess. would using ssr3 be too radical? any suggestions for these types of scratches?

[blitzenwannabe]

I'm a newbie to keeping a car spic and span.

 

What is PC and ssr2.5?

 

Thanks.

[mmanus88]

pc= porter cable (7424) its a buffering tool that is incredible for car detailing.

 

ssr2.5= one of the tiers of polish/swirl removers from Poorboys company. affordable and very effective.

[blitzenwannabe]

Thanks! I'll take a look out for the products.

[OCDetails]

For one thing the dealership considers scratches and swirls as part of normal wear and tear. They will never offer to repaint a car simply because it is scratched up. Just for fun you should call a paint shop and ask what the cost would be on a total body OEM quality clear coat. When they come back with a number upwards of 3 thousand dollars you might want to reconsider the investment in some proper car care tools. Clear coat is the most expensive part of most paint jobs and isn't an option when dealing with swirls.

 

I wouldn't suggest SSR3 on our paint at this point. You would have to have some serious damage and neglect. Generally going over a car another time with SSR2 should do the trick. Just for reference, I don't have 2.5 or 3. I get swirls removed most of the time with SSR2 or Meguiar's #83 (DACP). Stepping down your polish is the proper method of getting a totally perfect surface. Going up doesn't usually solve the problem. Some detailers like to do it that way, but I haven't found it effective.

 

I would take on the individual scratches that bother you by hand. Something like Meguiar's ScratchX would be a good option. You just apply some to the corner of a towel and rub it in the direction of the scratch. Finish that off with a pass of SSR2 or even 1 and usually it is as good as its going to get. What I have found with our paint is that some of the marks aren't actually scratches, but rather they are like dents in the paint that aren't going to get polished out. That is what I mean when I say it is soft. You just sort of have to get used to those and accept that it is just part of having a daily driver. I'll let you know when I get to that point of being able to accept it.

[bond007]

These cars have thin paint from what I can gather from my experience with my '05 black Legacy. It chips and scratches easily. Others on this forum have mentioned this.

[mmanus88]

thanks OC, will do the scratchx thing. after looking back on all of the time spent on my car, i wouldve saved myself a shitload of gried by getting the whole car filmed with that rockblocker solution. will definately do that on my next car.

[blitzenwannabe]

Thanks guys,

 

For my 95 black civic, I used :

 

Meguiar's® Step 1 Deep Crystal Cleaner and Meguiar's® Step 2 Polish and 3.

 

Do you recommend it on the scratches for a new car?

 

Thanks.

[deneb]

That system works pretty well for me, though the step 3 wax in that line of products I wouldn't use. Instead try Meguiar's NXT wax, it's more $ but will last 3 times as long as the carnuba 'step 3' wax. So try the step 1 cleaner, step 2 polish and then NXT, should work well.

[blitzenwannabe]

Thanks again...

 

I tried it yesterday without working it in too hard and it looked pretty good.

 

I also just ordered the Wolfgang products. I just hope the weather holds up for me to do the job next weekend.