16G CHRA in VF40 Housing

[twisted46]

Hey LGT,

 

I am a member of other Subie boards but came here to ask the group that would know the most.

 

First of all, sorry if my searching was terrible and this has been answered already.

 

So the background is that I have a 2010 Fozzy XT and the TD04 just doesn't carry enough power in the upper RPM.. Very annoying on the track. My goal is to not necessarily make more peak power but to have a wider power range. I am not planning to upgrade the fuel system.

 

Now I can pick up a toasted VF40 locally for very cheap and have it rebuilt or I can buy a CHRA for about the same price.

 

What I would like to know is; will the VF40 housings fit over a 16G CHRA?

 

I would much rather have an essentially new turbo and prefer IHI over VF.

 

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[fahr_side]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bolt-up-turbocharger-upgrade-vol-1-closed-119177.html

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bolt-up-turbocharger-upgrade-vol-2-200523.html

[08Legacy-GT]

generally try to avoid x housing in y wheels. If you want more power just get like a FP71HTA or ihi vf52

[twisted46]

fahr_side, thanks for dropping the link. I have read parts of it but no where close to all of it. I knew they could be made to fit. I am wondering if machining is needed to make that happen.

 

08, I am wondering if you have specific reasoning for this? I am no expert on turbo charging but I know enough to get into trouble. I fully understand that a big 16G CHRA is not going to be optimized in a VF40 housing. However I can't think of any issues with doing so. The practice of upgrading compressor and even turbine wheels is very common, just look at the BNR thread.

As for buying a VF52, a used one is still over the price of a brand new quality CHRA. I am not dropping a grand plus on a brand new turbo when my goal is not to make it down the drag strip faster. In all seriousness though let me know if there is some reliability issue I have been missing.

 

In general the better question for me to ask is this:

Will the 16G wheels fit in the VF40 covers without major modifications?

 

Thanks for the feedback

 

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[fahr_side]

In general the better question for me to ask is this:

Will the 16G wheels fit in the VF40 covers without major modifications?

 

Thanks for the feedback

 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

 

The tl;dr answer is No. You are not going to do this on the cheap on your miniature lathe or something. Wait until one comes up used if the budget is <$1k. People do sell good BNR16G or Blouch 380XT turbos.

[SBT]

Welcome the site. Glad you could join us.

 

Bryan (BNR) did machine the VF40 housings to fit the CHRAs that he was using at the time - and there was an associated core charge as a result. He now has his own housings which don't require machining. Believe it's in that first thread that FS posted above.

 

To your question of whether you'd need to machine your VF40 to fit the CHRA that you're considering...the only way to know is to spec it out, likely on your workbench.

 

However it works out, GLWI.

[twisted46]

Thanks for the help guys. I was only planning on getting a VF40 CHRA but figured why not see if a 16g would fit for around the same price.

 

I am avoiding anything used. Ill update if I decide to investigate further.

 

Just curious, does anyone have specs on the VF40 housing?

 

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[SBT]

8cm2 hotside is all I'm aware of though I do believe their is a volute measure somewhere on here for the either the 40 or the 46, possibly both.

[fahr_side]

8cm2 hotside is all I'm aware of though I do believe their is a volute measure somewhere on here for the either the 40 or the 46, possibly both.

 

 

 

Nope, both the 40 and 46 use a P18 housing that measures out around 7.4~7.5cm2. It's a little tricky with castings but that's the number.

[SBT]

Nope, both the 40 and 46 use a P18 housing that measures out around 7.4~7.5cm2. It's a little tricky with castings but that's the number.

 

Good to know exacts.

 

From the BNR thread linked above'

 

The VF40 8cm2 turbine housing will optimize power output!

 

I have a WRX customer that ran this same set up with a 7cm2 turbine housing, made an 11.5x quarter mile pass at 120 MPH. This unit is pretty much identicle to that, but we put a 8cm2 turbine housing on and use the 2 bolt outlet VF40 compressor cover.

[twisted46]

I mean in all reality boring the turbine exit out would me super easy on the mill. My concern is more in height clearance. It does sound like the VF40 has plenty of compressor room to play, just a small hot side.

 

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[twisted46]

Here is some anecdotal information that sheds a little more light:

 

The VF30, 34, 39*compressor*wheels*measure 60mm OD and 46.50mm ID. The*VF40*turbine measures the same 52.5mm OD but 40mm ID, much smaller than the VF30, 34, 39. So, if you're looking for an upgrade for your VF39, don't look at the*VF40. It's more of a 225~275 hp*turbo*rather than a 250~300 hp*turbo.

 

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Yes, but to use the VF40 turbine housing with the VF30 CHRA requires a good bit of machining - the VF30 turbine is larger in both diameter and depth (height?). So not only does the VF40 housing need to be bored out, the turbine inlet also needs to milled deeper (farther from the CHRA mounting surface). Maybe the pics below will make more sense than my lame description.

 

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FWIW, here are the compressor specs that I've found for a couple of IHIs:

VF22: 48.5mm inducer / 60.4mm exducer

VF34: 47.9/60

VF39: 46.5/60

VF40: 43.3/55.8

 

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I found these specs on the internet for the vf40 stock compressor wheel. Someone with a blown turbo might be able to double check it.

 

(A) Inducer = 43.3 mm

© Exducer = 55.8 mm

(B) Tip Height = 6.2 mm

(D) Total Height = 28.23 mm

(E) Hole Diam (mm) = 5.11 mm

# Blades = 6

Trim = 60

 

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ok here are the facts:

vf39

6 blade compressor height=.922

inducer=1.831

exducer= 2.365

 

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http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/vf34-39-machine-into-vf40i-58960p2.html

 

 

 

With some interpolation from various comparisons it seems like a variety of compressor can fit with relative ease but the turbine housing would need some work.

 

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[fahr_side]

Good to know exacts.

 

From the BNR thread linked above'

 

 

 

Either he's talking about the new housings he had made or he just didn't measure the VF-40 item.

 

To the DIY dude:

 

Look, I love tinkering in the workshop more than most. I get it. But at some point you have to ask yourself why you're doing it when what you need is on sale for less than your cost to build.

 

Bryan was modifying both the bearing housing and exhaust housing to fit them together for the correct spacing. To do that he had to use a specific MHI TD05 cartridge, and it wasn't the generic Subaru fitment one. Then he made a new compressor back plate to mimic the IHI cover but have it fit the MHI cartridge. A lot of R&D went into this that isn't apparent at first glance, you need a stock unmodified part in hand to appreciate it.

Price out a good TD05H-16G CHRA from somewhere like Mellett, not some Chinese junk off eBay. Then realize you don't know which one to order. Go back to the Mellett lists and research further. Then figure in a few weeks of measuring and calculation and probably having to exchange the CHRA because you ordered the wrong one. If you measure twice and cut once you might not ruin the housing while adapting it. Do you know how much clearance is required between turbine and housing to allow for expansion? Too little and your turbine is scrap. Too much and you have poor spool and efficiency.

 

Now look at the price of the BNR16G ($785) or Blouch 380XT ($1,395). Don't bother with the assembled in Taiwan from Chinese junk parts 'brands' like Tomioka, Kamak/Kinugawa, Mamba etc. They're all the same inconsistent crap. Some last, most don't.

 

For reference a new VF-52 can be had for around $1,200 but when you install it on anything than an '09~'13 WRX you will not have a warranty on it.