gdcpony Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Well after an oil change my oil light started flickering after warm up at idle. I have been around a while and can pretty much guess what that means. I will check the pick up and the pump (probably replace both as a matter of course), but I have little hope. I figure I am in for main bearings which means splitting the block. The engine has 171k on it and that is the shortest lifespan I have seen on a Subi. Sorry, guys, no fancy turbo build or high end components. just got to get this car back on the road ASAP so I am not spending $500 a month on gas in my truck. I live 70miles from work and this is my work vehicle. I also have motorcycle, but go figure this happened when it did instead of a month or two ago. So it will be a bare bones, new bearings, rings and gaskets. Pull, tear down, and rebuild as fast as I can do it properly. There is no knocking, and no leaks anywhere on the car, so hopefully, I have saved myself some money by parking it asap. But dang does a 30* motorcycle ride stink for 70 miles. Here are the issues. I am hoping the drive home didn't wear the crank journals as I will have no time for a machine shop and funds are tight. I am hoping a long weekend will do that trick (I can hone my own cylinders and the car doesn't seem to have any other engine issues), but have never rebuilt a Subi motor before. I have done Fords and Chevys in multiple engine styles, but never fast and usually with a performance mod or two thrown in (the SVO motor was my favorite). Those days are 10yrs plus in the past. So with my level of experience and needs, what advice can you all give me? Kits? Procedures? Tips? Again, sorry this won't be a performance build, but consider it an emergency operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 You can find the service manual here, http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/wants-see-my-vacation-pixi-6216.html Might want to check out www.car-parts.com for a junkyard motor. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcpony Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 You can find the service manual here, http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/wants-see-my-vacation-pixi-6216.html Might want to check out www.car-parts.com for a junkyard motor. Thanks a ton. I will take about any time/money saving advice I can get. http://www.cleggengine.com/engine-rebuild-kits.html/?find=subaru-2005-2-5l-20549 These any good. and came up with this search on carparts. http://car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?userSearch=int&userPID=1000&userLocation=USA&userIMS=&userInterchange=F%3E%3DA%3DO&userSide=&userDate=2005&userDate2=2005&dbModel=70.6.1.1&userModel=Subaru%20Outback%20(Legacy)&dbPart=300.1&userPart=Engine&sessionID=600000000000000000389918416&userPreference=zip&userZip=44675&userLat=40.5119&userLong=-81.2299&userIntSelect=1005307&userUID=0&userBroker=&userPage=1&iKey= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRuu Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 i got a master gasket/seal kit from the dealer for $330 for all updated subaru gaskets for my 02 EJ251 from my local dealer. just a little extra cash to get everything you need with peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 That first link assumes the crank will be turned, how do they know what the machine shop is going to do with the crank ? Talk to the machine shop before you buy anything. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 That first link assumes the crank will be turned, how do they know what the machine shop is going to do with the crank ? Talk to the machine shop before you buy anything. It seems the OP will not have time/funds for the machine shop. But do tear it down and measure everything you can before you start buying parts. Clearances are rather tight compared to what you have rebuilt before. You will want to have a set of mics, a straight edge and feeler gauges, reliable torque wrench and metric sockets. The rest depends on what you find. Do a quick run through Andrew's DiySB rebuild thread just below yours. Lots of relevant stuff in there if you are trying to find the shortest path to getting back on the road without engaging the professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcpony Posted November 2, 2016 Author Share Posted November 2, 2016 It seems the OP will not have time/funds for the machine shop. But do tear it down and measure everything you can before you start buying parts. Clearances are rather tight compared to what you have rebuilt before. You will want to have a set of mics, a straight edge and feeler gauges, reliable torque wrench and metric sockets. The rest depends on what you find. Do a quick run through Andrew's DiySB rebuild thread just below yours. Lots of relevant stuff in there if you are trying to find the shortest path to getting back on the road without engaging the professionals. I have the tools you list. And you are right the specs are tight. I might have to go the junkyard route, just due to time. The funds... Christmas will be tiny this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 You can do it! Watch out for the nickels and dimes, that's your biggest threat. You sound experienced enough to know what you're doing so you probably won't be suprised by the differences between boxer and V or I motors. Cheap is totally doable. I recently wrapped up my DIY rebuild and if I hadn't rebuilt the turbo I'd only have spent about $3k, including TONS of tools and supplies you probably already have. I bet you can get back on the road for under $1000. Check out the first page of my rebuild thread for a preview of what you can expect. Feel free to send me a PM if you want any specifics on where I bought certain items or if you want to talk on the phone. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Once you get it torn down, if the crank needs anything more than a light polish, you may want to consider a new one. They run a little under $300, but then you have the journal specs bang on and hopefully you can fit a set of standard bearings for both mains and rods. Even if you were thinking of using a machine shop, a new crank (almost) makes $$ sense once you add everything up including machine work and oversize bearings if you go the reconditioned route. If you have or can borrow a bore gauge, torque the empty case back together and check for oval down the main line. In the turbo blocks, it is not uncommon to find a couple of them out by almost the stock running clearance on the mains, making it a bit of a puzzle to fit bearings and hit specs. It can be done, but you may need two sets of bearings, meaning more cost and hassle. Best to anticipate that. You can tear down, inspect and measure the oil pump, and you should, but at that mileage expect it to be at the outer wear limit, if not completely forked. So budget for a new (stock) one. Probably you can re-use pistons so you only need to buy a set of rings. A timing belt kit (including water pump) just makes sense when you are at that mileage and have the engine out anyway. Unless for some reason it was all done just before you bought the car. Usually 100K, 200K, etc. OEM gasket kit is a big expense, but probably worth it in the end. Pretty much everything else can be cleaned up and re-used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scruit Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Having rebuilt (new shortblock) my engine my advice would be to look for a low-mile junkyard engine. In a turbo I'd be really nervous, but the subaru NA engines are very reliable. This is not an engine to be starting work on for the first time if you need to get it done fast. Junkyard engine would be the fastest swap. Probably 10 hours if nothing goes wrong. Still about $1850 for a 120k motor though... Cheapest is to rebuild your own engine. If your oil pressure is bad then you have to assume the crank/rod bearings all need to be replaced. This path is fraught with unexpected roadblocks and the chances of you taking weeks to complete the entire job is better than 50/50. Before condemning the engine - can you check the condition of the oil pickup pipe? If you raise the engine a couple inches in the engine bay (under the two engine mount nuts) you can pull the pan and inspect the pickup. Look inside the pan too. THIS is what will help you decide if you are facing a rebuild or if the pickup if blocked or cracked (and sucking air) My advice: 1) Buy or borrow an oil pressure gauge and tell us the pressures you get at cold idle (80psi), cold cruise (90psi), warm idle (18psi) and warm cruise (75psi). (Figures are my brand new engine build). The particular combination of engine pressures you see, and the behavior of the needle, will help us understand what might be wrong. IF THE OIL PRESSURE DROPS BELOW, OR NEVER GETS ABOVE, 10psi THEN STOP THE ENGINE!) 2) Compression check. Yes, the H4 engine was designed by a man who thinks that people who perform compression checks are to be made to suffer. Do it anyway. An NA engine will have higher compression than turbo so the 125-135 we see even on new engines is low for an NA engine. I suggest this because you don't want to invest hours of time and easily over $1k on an engine that is overall worn out and has crappy compression... Or maybe you do, but choose to plan for an overbore. It's possible you are suffering from the classic cracked oil pickup problem. You should be able to tell if you pull the pan (in-car) and if this is the problem then the fix is easy and cheap. Either a factory or aftermarket (killerB) oil pickup. If it's just a worn out engine and you value money over time then go for the rebuild yourself. A machine shop may take 2-4 weeks with your heads so plan for that too unless you choose to reuse your heads as-is or with to try to rebuild them yourself. I just don't want you thinking this is a weekend project. It's really not unless you already have the new engine ready to go. Mine took several weeks, mostly waiting on parts that I didn't know were bad until I had it all torn apart. For the bike... Oxford heated grips, those grip covers that dirtbikers use, and a thermacare lower-back heat pack. That'll keep ya toasty. Works for me on my wee-strom. Good luck! Ask away, we've been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Crawford Performance sells brand new OEM pistons with pins and clips for $25 each. Moroso makes an oil pickup for our car that's better than OEM and it's much cheaper than KillerB. My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Crawford Performance sells brand new OEM pistons with pins and clips for $25 each. Moroso makes an oil pickup for our car that's better than OEM and it's much cheaper than KillerB. I was going to suggest the pistons in my post, but I don't believe they will work in the NA models. That is, unless Crawford is building performance grocery-getter blocks on the side. Can they supply NA pistons? As long as we can get new pistons for $25 a slug, it's not even worth measuring up the old ones. If not, inspecting and measuring yours for possible re-use is a reasonable plan. Not that new stock ones at the dealer will break the bank. But as StkmltS said in an earlier post, careful, maybe even aggressive cost control is the key to a good outcome. Before any of this, however, checking the pickup tube as you planned, is the first thing. Pulling the engine when you don't have to is . . . to be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcpony Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 Sorry for the late reply. I was sent out for training, Marine Corps, and just got back. I replace my "loaned out" oil guage with a Harbor Freight piece. I checked it against my truck which has a pretty accurate gauge and it read the same. The fitting on my little Subi was not sealing even with tape, but it worked. Just made a bit of a mess. Start the car it reads 70psi. As it warmed up it dropped to 20psi at idle full temp. At 3000rpm it is at 65psi. Shut her down and start her up again. That time I get 16-18psi at idle and the same climb. It is low for what I am used to (my truck pushes 40 at idle and is regulated at a max of 80.). Seem normal for you all with the non turbo engine? I did not cruise it as I had that leak and the gauge would not have reached so you only get my no load readings. Sorry about that. Book specs read 14psi@600rpm and 45psi@5000rpm. I didnt need to rev it that high to get there amd it holds stable. Also my idle (calibrated Tach) is around 500 not 600rpm. So if I get everything right, I was freaking out over a $25 switch. I feel stupid. None the less, it doesn't take away from you guys' advice and help. I thank you! Oh and I ride a wee strom with the very items you mentioned and an FZ1 for the days I want to go fast comfortably. I also could use one of my 250's (cbr and v star) but my daughter's would get mad. You should have seen it when I mentioned selling one of them to pay for the junkyard engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 So a new oil pressure sending unit was all you needed ? that's cheap. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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