2013 3.6R torque converter shake?

[Ifixtheinternet]

I've been experiencing an intermittent issue which I believe to be the torque converter.

 

2013 Legacy 3.6R 40k, stock.

I performed the ATF change and front/rear dif fluids at around 35k with fluids bought from dealer.

Although I believe this issue was happening shortly after I bought the car at 32k.

 

Occasionally while traveling at constant speed at around 40-50mph, releasing the throttle quickly from about 15% throttle to 0% causes the transmission to disengage harshly, and "shakes" the car a couple times.

 

It seems under the same exact circumstances it will either do this or not do this, I'd say about 10% of the time if the conditions are right.

 

I took it to the dealer and they told me they couldn't reproduce it and everything is normal.

I heard about an ECU reflash fixing some problems on the 2011-2012 3.6R, so I asked them about it, but they said there is no reflash for this car.

I wasn't able to drive it for them when I took it in, but I should have.

 

Is this normal for this transmission?

Anyone else having this problem?

[Timothy.B]

There was a 2013 update for the 5EAT but yours probably has it.

 

I don't know because I haven't drove your car but what you describe is possibly the transmission mount. It's horribly shaky. You ever were in a higher ever range, let off then mash the gas again real quick and felt a nice thunk? That's your transmission bushing. RalliTEK makes a good "soft" insert that helps fix it up. I've heard good things but haven't gotten mine in. Mine will also shake when I let off abruptly from power so what you're feeling is probably normal and they're used to it after driving a few 3.6R's. Take it for a grain of salt, I've never driven your car so I can't say exactly. But that's my guess.

[Ifixtheinternet]

Well, that could be it.

That didn't even occur to be, it seems like too much movement to be that sort of a problem.

It would definitely be the worst mounted tranny I've ever felt.

I would have done this upgrade sooner or later so I'm going to just do it sooner and see how it goes.

 

Thanks.

[Ifixtheinternet]

So I ordered the "Soft" version of RalliTek's sub frame bushings.

I was about to install them when I discovered something odd.

 

While under the car, I noticed when pushing up on the Transmission it moves easily, and I can move it up and down without much effort, probably 3/4 of an inch total.

The movement was not between the subframe and frame (where these bushings are) but was all in the mount that connects the subframe to the transmission.

 

There is only one small mount at the rear of the transmission from what I can see, and it has a lot of play up and down.

It didn't seem to be cracked or damaged, just to have really soft rubber.

 

I'm thinking this could be more of the problem then the sub frame bushings, and I'd like to upgrade the mount while I have everything apart if it's a good idea.

 

I searched around online but couldn't find anything yet.

 

I'm still contending with whether or not this movement could cause my problem.

Logically it seems I am feeling a "rotational movement" between the transmission and engine, when the throttle is released, rather than an "up and down" movement.

 

Any thoughts?

Anyone know if there is a replacement bushing for this mount?

[Timothy.B]

I'm a little confused now as to what you mean RalliTek sub frame bushings. A link would be helpful.

 

The insert I was talking about is this one. It fits into the stock bushing gap.

 

Here is the install thread.

 

The only noticeable play I've heard about is in the 5EAT rear mount bushing and the rear differential mount.

 

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Here's a video on the rear diff inserts. There's noticeable play in that as well. This is a pretty common annoyance with this transmission and all Subaru rear diffs use the same mount, pretty far back too. I know of guys with 2008 Legacy 3.0R's that have the same issue of "drivetrain thrash" as they call it.

 

As for the amount of movement in the transmission, I'm not actually sure. I've never personally been under my car and tried to push the transmission up, haha.

 

If you did happen to buy the subframe bushing inserts, I've heard they do help with stiffening the rear subframe up, with a slight increase of NVH. FLegacy from the 5th Gen section installed them, as far as I know they do a good job. But as I said, biggest issues are the rear transmission mount and rear diff mount.

 

HumbleRumble from the 5th Gen section is having his driveshaft replaced. He said it would shake under take off. That may be a possibility of what you're experiencing. But I would hope the dealer would have checked that.

 

I'm hoping to at least have the rear diff inserts done Tuesday when I do my oil change. I'll let ya know of the results.

[Ifixtheinternet]

I need to learn to read better, that is exactly what I was looking for.

 

I bought http://www.rallitek.com/bushings/6148-rallitek-transmission-crossmember-mount-bushings-subaru-1.html, rallitek transmission cross member bushings.

 

I definitely need the tranny mount and positive shift kit more than this, but I think I will just do all three while I'm under the car and call it a day. Time for more toys!

 

Thanks a lot for the info.

[Timothy.B]

Oh, um, those are the bushings for the 5MT and the 6MT. You could throw those up on the marketplace here or sell them on your local Subaru group. Or keep them for future possible manual Subaru's. Sadly those will not work

 

I had thought you meant these.

[Ifixtheinternet]

Crap.

 

I think I should have ordered this:

 

http://www.rallitek.com/bushings/9182-whiteline-gearbox-positive-shift-kit-wrx-sti-2008-2016-legacy-2005-2012-more.html

They look like the same kit, just from Whiteline.

I'm waiting to hear if I can exchange for the correct ones.

 

Interestingly enough, the transmission mount bushing for the 5EAT is not listed as compatible with the Legacy either.

I called them about this yesterday and they said they can't list it because they haven't tested it on any Legacy's (yet).

 

But after a brief conversation with their tech, said it "should work". They said I could return it if it doesn't match so I think I'll go for it.

[Timothy.B]

Those RalliTEK's you listed are still for a manual transmission. The subframe mounts directly to the car without any bushings, then transmission mount itself mounts both the subframe and the transmission directly. The only thing dampening the shock is that flimsy piece of rubber in the middle.

 

This is probably the cheapest you're gonna find the 5EAT insert. It works for sure. I know of someone who has one in their 5th gen Outback.

 

These are the rear positive kit I video linked earlier.

[Ifixtheinternet]

Those RalliTEK's you listed are still for a manual transmission. The subframe mounts directly to the car without any bushings, then transmission mount itself mounts both the subframe and the transmission directly. The only thing dampening the shock is that flimsy piece of rubber in the middle.

 

Ya I got the wrong ones. they are for sale on the forum.

However, according to Rallitek, there are subframe bushings in the auto.

 

These whiteline transmission member bushings are Listed for the 2013 Legacy 3.6R,

but the same part # at Rallisportdirect shows for manual trans only.

So I guess there is still some confusion about this application over there.

 

This is probably the cheapest you're gonna find the 5EAT insert. It works for sure. I know of someone who has one in their 5th gen Outback.

 

These are the rear positive kit I video linked earlier.

 

Thanks!

Just got an Amazon credit card yesterday, what a coincidence.

Bushing is on the way.

[Ifixtheinternet]

Spoke to Rallitek again and they confirmed niether kit fits, and they are gonna change their listing. I told them maybe I'll bring my car by soon after I get the transmission bushing installed so they can confirm that works.

[nads]

Let us know if you got it fixed. I don't think I have felt what you describe in my '14.

[Ifixtheinternet]

Let us know if you got it fixed. I don't think I have felt what you describe in my '14.

 

It's not fixed.

 

I just got the bushing installed yesterday and the problem is still there.

It seemed to help a little, maybe 15 % of the problem, but that was probably the small amount of transmission movement that was going on.

 

It feels like the transmission occasionally "catches" once quickly after you let off the throttle, oscillating the car a couple times. But there is no hard slam feeling, it does feel like the tranny is bouncing back and forth a couple times.

 

I was starting to think engine mount, but since the problem usually doesn't happen, I think it's something mechanical.

 

Seems like it partially drops into neutral and then re-engages midway while the rpm is still dropping.

 

This only happens occasionally, like 10% of the time, given all the same circumstances.

I'll have to reproduce it for the dealer.

This doesn't sound like fun.

 

I'm guessing I'll have to uninstall the bushing now or they will probably blame it on that. First thing they said to me before even driving the car was "You probably just aren't used to a CVT."

 

I can easily reproduce it, if they claim its normal I suppose I'll request to reproduce it on one of their Legacys on the lot.

[nads]

I'd find another dealer if they didn't even know its a 5eat, and not a CVT.

 

What and where do you feel this happening? Like steering wheel, floor board, all over ect?

[Ifixtheinternet]

I'd find another dealer if they didn't even know its a 5eat, and not a CVT.

 

What and where do you feel this happening? Like steering wheel, floor board, all over ect?

 

Ya, next dealer is about 50 miles away but maybe I'll have to do that. I feel like I need to reproduce it for them so they can at least have a fair chance of fixing the problem.

 

It feels like the entire car moves, or "bounces" when you let off the throttle abrubtly (sometimes) I mainly feel it through the seat. With as much movement I could only imagine the entre engine/transmission moving, or the transmission disengaging / re-engaging. I really thought the bushing was gonna fix it, it really does feel like the engine/tranny decides to jump around when you let off the throttle. I can't imagine engine mounts being a problem at 40k though.

[Ifixtheinternet]

So this only seems to happen between 50-60mph.

Any higher or lower and I cant seem to reproduce it.

Also, I can't seem to reproduce it when going uphill, even inside that speed range, only on a level road between 50-60.

 

At 57 ish the problem is very pronounced.

[nads]

The good and bad news is you can reproduce it. I drive a lot in that range from Gresham to Wilsonville on the freeway and throttle to no throttle is pretty common during my commute and I've never experienced what you describe. You would think if it were mechanical, it would do something similar in all gears at all speeds. I think you need to babysit the dealer, most don't have mechanics anymore, just technicians that go by what the computer says.

 

Any check engine lights? I know bad sensors (TPS, VSS, etc) giving bad feed back to the ECU/TCU can cause odd issues.

[Timothy.B]

I kinda understand this feeling you're talking about. But it doesn't happen all the time. I figured you were referring to the driveline thrash that comes with the Auto in all years. I would just keep it in if you feel it helps. It may be possible its your torque converter but I've yet to hear anyone have any issues with theirs in their 5EAT for our gen Legacys. Even people that are pushing 100 more WHP.

 

I've grown pretty use to my car making little wiggles and jerks sometimes. Although with the tune, he's smoothed out the transmissions shifting but yours isn't a shifting, it's just an on power, off power jerk. I'm with Nads on going to another dealer. They should know better that it's not a CVT.

 

I'm pretty sure it's probably the TC. Take note in what gear, mph and RPM you're at when it happens. The TC locks up at 3200 and in 5th gear, at 50mph or so, I think that's the RPM it's at. I'm willing to be that's what you're feeling.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/5eat-ask-your-questions-185412.html

 

You could also post in here. Someone's bound to have an answer.

[nads]

You ever get this resolved?

[Ifixtheinternet]

Unfortunately not. I ended up having an emergency right before my appt and had to cancel, I still need to take it back in. I think the problem is getting worse, as it started to happen at lower speeds now. I also noticed that while this is happening I can actually watch the RPM needle bounce back and forth along with the car when the problem happens. Does this mean that the engine is moving relative to the transmission?

[nads]

I know the 3.6r is supposed to rev match, as in blip the throttle on shift so it may be that. I did see where some people were noticing the throttle body's getting quite dirty inside and as early as 30k.

[Timothy.B]

It might actually just be a normal feeling. HumbleRumble from the 5th Gen section took his car in to get looked out for some vibration. They drove 4 different other 5th Gens and said they all do the same thing. It's really hard to diagnose these sort of things without driving the car. Your best bet is having the dealer try to diagnose it. If I lived closer I would be more of a help.