Official Firearm Thread V3

[Merc6]

Just got back, broke the P80 trigger. Put 10 rounds in and aimed like normal. Pull trigger and *bang bang bang bang* I left an empty mag in to see what it’s doing and after about 3 or 4 shots the trigger won’t reset.

the crusiform edge chipped away and let the lug of the firing pin just keep on going.

 

Seems like a cool party trick in an outdoor range, indoor range wasn’t too happy about it. Lol.

 

I also got to fire .357

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited October 20, 2017 by Merc6

[chowser51]

Picked this up recently for a refinish job. It's the first gun I ever held (I was only 14). An older Sig P228. It's a beater gun, but since I bought it as a refinish candidate, that's ok.

 

 

 

I'm taking a break for awhile, spent too much on lightsabers and guns this year. I need to concentrate on my next car.

 

With that said, I still have two CZ P10C Suppressor Ready guns that I ordered in December which haven't been made by CZ yet and by the end of November, I will finish building my next rifle upper. I decided on 6.5 Grendel. I already bought ammo, mags, suppressor mount, adjustable gas block, and stickers for the ammo can. Just trying to decide what barrel length to get. I will be using one of my SBR'd AR-15 lowers. Trying to decide between 10.5 and 12.5 for the Grendel.

[BDII]

Where are you sending it to get refinished?

[chowser51]

My usual. CCR in TN. I've been trying to get a beater gun to try their nikote/cpii finish. So yeah. I'm crazy. I buy beater guns to refinish.

[BDII]

Selfish suggestion: go with stainless steel on the slide and add cherry grips.

[Knight705]

Dunno if my expectations are too high or forums/youtube has skewed my views or the training outfits I choose are bad but I have gotten disillusioned with taking gun training.

 

I feel like with the good free info out on the web, the goals I want to achieve in terms of guns proficiency, can be obtained without spending the hundreds on these classes, but just through self practice.

[Norm Peterson]

I'd guess it's like anything else that you get better at through practice - if there are any bad habits would you spot them yourself? Early enough?

 

 

Norm

[BDII]

Dunno if my expectations are too high or forums/youtube has skewed my views or the training outfits I choose are bad but I have gotten disillusioned with taking gun training.

 

I feel like with the good free info out on the web, the goals I want to achieve in terms of guns proficiency, can be obtained without spending the hundreds on these classes, but just through self practice.

 

There's no replacement for a good trainer. You will hit a point where what you do on your own no longer nets gains.

 

I'm there now. I plan to travel to Sig Sauer in NH to get to the next level.

[rodan]

There's no replacement for a good trainer. You will hit a point where what you do on your own no longer nets gains.

 

This. Preferably multiple trainers.

 

Teaching firearms is just like anything and sometimes a student needs to hear the same thing from a different instructor to make it 'click'. And instructors, even those teaching the same basic techniques, will have slightly different ways of doing things that may work better for you. It's pretty difficult to observe yourself (objectively, anyway), and spot the things that need fixing.

 

That said, the huge increase in the popularity of firearms training has caused the industry to explode. This isn't always good, as every huckster who ever won a match, or was on a swat team somewhere hangs out a shingle and promises to be the 2nd coming of Col. Cooper. I've seen a lot of sketchy sh*t on youtube and in the magazines over the years, so you need to vet the outfit you're seeking training from. That was easy when it was Gunsite, Ayoob and Thunder Ranch... not so much anymore!

[TSiWRX]

^ The posts above by rodan, Norm Peterson, and BDII - are big.

 

These days, the need to properly vet one's instructor/cadre/school is absolutely vital. As rodan noted, there's a lot of shady characters out there, and sub-par instruction aside, with this sport/hobby/activity, there's quite a bit of inherent danger that should not be taken for-granted. With that in mind and what you've written above, Knight705, can I ask who you've studied with - in hopes of determining if that's perhaps one of the problems?

 

And as for YouTube and other similar resources - be it free or paid for - the problem is a lack of proper oversight. As BDII and Norm Peterson noted, the lack of feedback from these one-way resources is perhaps their biggest failing, and self-diagnosis is difficult at best, even for very experienced and capable shooters.

 

Self-practice is always necessary. Going to these training classes is not a viable substitute for honest self-guided practice. Instead, these classes are so that you discover where your shortcomings are and how to remediate them, as well as is a chance to put into use those skills which you have mastered, and also is a way to be exposed to newer methodology and doctrine updates/corrections.

[BDII]

This. Preferably multiple trainers.

 

 

this. 100% this.

[TSiWRX]

^ +1.

 

Breadth of knowledge is just as important as depth of knowledge.

 

There are a lot of really good trainers/schools out there. But none of them know it all or have it all, and even if/when they do, they're still not immune to the dangers of stagnation/institutional inertia.

 

Even for well-experienced shooters who attend schools that are very high up on the food chain or study under instructors who are world renown, it's still a good idea to step outside one's comfort zone and get out there to see what the rest of the world has to offer.

[BDII]

Every good instructor I know takes courses themselves. It should not be out of the ordinary to see someone in your class that is an instructor elsewhere.

[Knight705]

The two outfits are local to socal so I doubt you guys have heard of them

 

First was http://www.stcrispian.com

 

Then current is https://artifexcc.com

 

I know that self training has limitations, but maybe part of the problem is that I dont take enough time between classes to really practice the things that get taught in the classes before I take the next one.

 

But either way in the end, if I am feeling like I am not learning anything, I should take a step back and self evaluate before I waste more money.

[BDII]

Classes are a waste of time if you’re not dry firing at home.

 

Another thing to consider is; is my pistol the right pistol for me? A good trainer should be able to observe you shoot and make a recommendation. For example; I need a steel frame pistol like a P226 or an M9.

[TSiWRX]

The two outfits are local to socal so I doubt you guys have heard of them

 

First was http://www.stcrispian.com

 

Then current is https://artifexcc.com

 

 

My scope is pretty limited to this portion of the Mid-West, indeed. I'm not much help, here, I'm afraid.

 

Check and see on M4Carbine.net as well as the Primary & Secondary groups what the training-heavy folks there think of these two outfits. Neither offer a very comprehensive/detailed look at who's actually behind the scenes and what their qualifications are, exactly, and this isn't something that I look upon favorably.

 

But either way in the end, if I am feeling like I am not learning anything, I should take a step back and self evaluate before I waste more money.

 

Agreed.

 

I'd start with your background, first.

 

From there, I'd do an honest (read: quantifiable) assessment of your skills.

 

With that data and your background for context, I'd then list out your goals. Here, be specific.

 

The trainers/schools you select should look to address SPECIFIC areas in your goals.

 

For example, top-tier military take lessons from top-flight competitive shooters not to learn tactics, but rather to specifically hone their ability to run the gun efficiently. Similarly, if you're looking to learn how to run the gun in a clench fight, spending the money to privately book a top-tier competitive shooter for a day isn't going to get you the same gains versus if your goal was to get better at "reading" competition stages or moving through them efficiently.

 

I agree with you 100% - you need to sit down and figure out what your goals are, first.

[BDII]

^you should write up a “new shooter” walkthrough

[TSiWRX]

Classes are a waste of time if you’re not dry firing at home.

 

Not just dry practice.

 

The same consideration also extends to live-fire as well. It also should be noted that certain skills cannot be successfully trained dry-only, such as recoil mitigation.

 

The big picture is that "training classes" should be viewed as just that lesson presented in the lecture hall, and no more.

 

A lot of folks believe that the few reps that the instructors have the students do is sufficient to ingrain the skill: it's not. Those reps are just so that the student can be exposed to the skill being taught, and that the instructor and his/her cadre can insure that you are performing it at least safely, if not completely properly.

 

The student will never achieve proficiency with that skill if they don't take the time - be it dry fire or live - to properly ingrain/integrate that skill by themselves, outside of those few reps where the skill is presented in class.

[TSiWRX]

^you should write up a “new shooter” walkthrough

 

 

The only problem being that I'm a new shooter, myself!

[rodan]

 

The only problem being that I'm a new shooter, myself!

 

You already have more training than probably 90% of 'shooters' will ever have...

 

I think you can at least elevate yourself to intermediate...

[BDII]

I have 4 years of competition shooting under my belt. I'd consider myself a Journeyman

[twisty]

i have 30 years of blowing shit up in the desert and playing war games with friends, i still consider myself a noob

[red beast]

i have 30 years of blowing shit up in the desert and playing war games with friends, i still consider myself a noob

 

so do we.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i couldn't resist

[twisty]

so do we.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i couldn't resist

 

http://lh3.ggpht.com/0zsGv27PjMoibjjaxY4DWW1cyDae6BjilPoR3cN3G6JHTBi5G5e_TlP96LCtHRaFnVkrWO-uto7S_SGcJUadjK8=s200

[Merc6]

How do you guys feel about the Hudson H9? Got a chance to fire it against my G17 G3. The recoil was about the same as my G17 with the WML on it. Trigger is weird but you get used to it after a bit. It ran fine till I tossed my WML on it. Stove piped to the point it almost completely crushed the casing closed. I guess that "Do not remove" guide rod spring has to be strong. Not sure I'm sold on the price of it, or the weight of it.