Official Firearm Thread V3

[TSiWRX]

So much jelly right now I need moar better training.

 

I've been lucky to have had the opportunities that I did, when I first started. Come to think of it, that was about 1 and 1/2 years in. Costa - and Robert Vogel just a couple of months before - were really the first times that I had the opportunity to be under the big names.

 

I see your point - thats why I dont say what these guys teach is Gospel. I like to listen to what they say and decide if that bit is information or shilling. I cant blame them for wanting to make a good living - and product placement or slapping your name on things does that well. I really commend those that dont seem to focus on products/theatrics and their top priority is student advancement and thats who I try and point to.

 

I don't necessarily think it's shilling. It's not as devious as that, and - at least with none of the guys that I've trained with so far - I really believe that these guys truly believe in the ability of the equipment that they are willing to represent to take a shooter's performance to the next level. But at the same time, I think that they also understand that what they allow the industry to do with them as celebrities does tread that fine line, and as-such, they're themselves unwilling to do anything more to advertise, other than perhaps to answer students' questions about those items and to give the students the ability to run those guns and those pieces of equipment (as long as they're not T&E models).

 

The truth of the matter is that when those guns shoot well, they shoot amazingly well - like any other custom or semi-custom piece.

 

I just dont think using a local guy as an authority on gun stuff is as effective as Costa/Haley saying the same thing.

 

I really think this is a case-by-case (like you said later on, it's the dangers of the blanket-statement, right? ).

 

Ohio has become this midwestern-Mecca of vetted and proven trainers/schools. I've been really lucky to have had some rather high-speed folks as some of my local instructors from the very beginning, and what's more, even as I continue to grow as a shooter, I'm finding that this midwestern-Mecca effect over the course of the last 5 years really has made for some rather unexpected opportunities.

 

Just a few weeks ago, I paid only $100 and got to spend 8 hours with John "Chappy" Chapman so that he could unfuck some of my awkwardness with the carbine. How come? Because the Alliance PD Training facility hosts their own training classes, which draws its instructional pool from a few of the Alliance PD guys - and Chappy's on that roster, being that he's one of their SRT guys.

 

I think that while large "national name" level classes do have their own benefits, there's also a lot to be said for the regional and even local names - and that it's more important now than ever for the consumer to really shop around and properly vet their instructor, instructional cadre, or school.

 

You can bet you'll never see me in 5.11 trying to do bag over my head drills because Instructor Zero did it and is a good shot.

 

And I can't do Costagate, either. My butt ain't packaged that nice, and you don't want to see this much Chinese Braised Pork hit the floor, dynamically or otherwise.

[Penguin]

^ Win.

 

You said that so much better than I can.

 

Not so much "win" as just trying to clarify. PatMac's procedure is pretty solid.

 

I also had a company 1stSgt my last years in the USMC (reserves) who's day job was firearms and tactics instructor for the Arkansas State Police, as well as being on their SWAT team. He was big on this sort of check too, I guess shooting meth monkeys in the face a few times and serving felony warrants all the time made him sharpen up. Even if he was a humorless asshole at times.

[Sparkey]

I've been lucky to have had the opportunities that I did, when I first started. Come to think of it, that was about 1 and 1/2 years in. Costa - and Robert Vogel just a couple of months before - were really the first times that I had the opportunity to be under the big names.

 

 

 

I don't necessarily think it's shilling. It's not as devious as that, and - at least with none of the guys that I've trained with so far - I really believe that these guys truly believe in the ability of the equipment that they are willing to represent to take a shooter's performance to the next level. But at the same time, I think that they also understand that what they allow the industry to do with them as celebrities does tread that fine line, and as-such, they're themselves unwilling to do anything more to advertise, other than perhaps to answer students' questions about those items and to give the students the ability to run those guns and those pieces of equipment (as long as they're not T&E models).

 

The truth of the matter is that when those guns shoot well, they shoot amazingly well - like any other custom or semi-custom piece.

 

 

 

I really think this is a case-by-case (like you said later on, it's the dangers of the blanket-statement, right? ).

 

Ohio has become this midwestern-Mecca of vetted and proven trainers/schools. I've been really lucky to have had some rather high-speed folks as some of my local instructors from the very beginning, and what's more, even as I continue to grow as a shooter, I'm finding that this midwestern-Mecca effect over the course of the last 5 years really has made for some rather unexpected opportunities.

 

Just a few weeks ago, I paid only $100 and got to spend 8 hours with John "Chappy" Chapman so that he could unfuck some of my awkwardness with the carbine. How come? Because the Alliance PD Training facility hosts their own training classes, which draws its instructional pool from a few of the Alliance PD guys - and Chappy's on that roster, being that he's one of their SRT guys.

 

I think that while large "national name" level classes do have their own benefits, there's also a lot to be said for the regional and even local names - and that it's more important now than ever for the consumer to really shop around and properly vet their instructor, instructional cadre, or school.

 

 

 

And I can't do Costagate, either. My butt ain't packaged that nice, and you don't want to see this much Chinese Braised Pork hit the floor, dynamically or otherwise.

 

True true. If you dont vet your instructors you could end up training under VODA Or learn "E-brake setting 101" with Yeager Better yet, "I went to a Tactical Response/Sunny P class and all I got was my truck/stomach shot". And the whole downrange camera man thing? That just makes me give so much more respect/credit to people like Costa, Haley, Pat, ect.

 

Oh boy - I sort of forgot about Costagate. I give him a pass on that because it was Japan, they take everything to 11 and dont have much gun culture. They make Cali restrictions look tame. Then when they think of our gun culture its probably the good ole fudds that open carry rifles into starbucks - Costa/Haley/Zero are like Majestic Unicorns of beauty and freedom. I likely would have done the same...

 

On a more serious note: How would you recommend to Vet your instructor as a new shooter? On paper a lot of people can look/sound good, but not be teaching the proper techniques or at the right level for the shooter.

 

I really like the point you touched on with "Custom" pieces. Anytime you make something custom tailored to you, that is the best solution - as long as you dont compromise reliability. Sure you should be able to run a stock Glock well, but I want any and every advantage I can take.

[Penguin]

I'd vet most any instructor on how much stress they give to fundamentals. I know everyone wants to shoot fast, and do all the cool tacti-cool ninja operator shit but until you learn and master basics of trigger control, grip, sight alignment, and sight tracking... all the other shit is just a distraction.

 

So a stress on fundamentals and accountability/marksmanship.

[TSiWRX]

^ This.

 

Ballistic masturbation is fun. And there's also something to be said about recoil control that really can only be effected by longer strings of fire and a higher round-count.

 

But at the end of the day, if your instructor isn't holding you accountable for each and every shot you took (and yes, this can even be the 700 to 1K rds/day that some of the high-round-count classes demand), you've just finished a day at Tacticool Ninja-Bro Day Camp.

 

For me, what I suggest to fellow students for vetting a school/instructor is to (1) look at AARs in reliable Forums such as P&S, M4Carbine.net, and Lightfighter.net, and/or (2) to talk to or read the same in your local shooting (be it for competition or concealed-carry) Forums (there's almost always a small core contingent in such communities of training-heavy individuals). Failing these efforts does not necessarily mean that the school/instructor is no-good: they simply may not be as known or popular. In this case, some directed questions of the school and/or instructor should be asked, first-hand, and the replies carefully considered. Additionally, even the least-known instructors should be able to put you in-touch with a few of his/her current or former students, and you should be able to get a feel for things by even just sitting down to a cup of coffee or sharing a range-date with these folk.

 

Finally, look at who participates in the bigger yearly gatherings, and who they associate with. For example, here in NE-Ohio, there's two yearly gatherings that sees a lineup of some very serious individuals: Paul-E-Palooza ( http://paulepalooza.com/ roster available there ) and Friends of Pat Rogers ( http://www.friendsofpatrogers.com/ - Earnest Langdon, Jared Reston, Justin Dyal, Freddy Blish, Varg Freeborn, TNVC, Presscheck Consulting, Forge Tactical ). Although both boast impressive lineups of various industry figures, it should be pretty clear for anyone who has been in the sport/hobby a while which one - not necessary is "better" or "worse" - may be more or less suitable for any one particular individual, based on their personal mission-statement or the skill-sets that they are seeking.

 

There's something to be said for the knowledge that the known SMEs will put out in their classes. But at the same time, those classes typically only really benefit those who are on either end of the bell-curve or those who are more vocal and self-directed about seeking help: the mass in the middle as well as those who are shy really do tend to get lost in the bulk. With sometimes 30 students without any AIs, it's easy to see how this can come to pass. Similarly, there's some things that you can only get from being in a shooting line of 30+.

 

But the reverse is also just as valuable. Sometimes, having only a half-dozen to a dozen other students in the line - in a class with 6 or more AIs/RSOs, really can be of-benefit. And that doesn't even take into account the differences in tuition!

 

 

Oh boy - I sort of forgot about Costagate. I give him a pass on that because it was Japan.....

 

And that's really all that it was - it's Japan, and it's a whole other culture. The shooting and airsoft communities' worship of figures like Costa-etc. would have produced the same kind of response, if McNamara simply took of his shirt (and replied to that solicitation for him to be the star in a "mature-male porno") or if Vickers....well, probably just breathed in the same room as them. I think it's funny that it produced that kind of reaction in our culture here, that's all. But that's probably because I'm Asian, and I used to play airsoft (and still own a sizeable airsoft collection).

Edited September 15, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[BDII]

No thank god.

 

On the press check I should clarify, I don't advocate doing this on every reload. It's a pre combat check before the pistol goes in the holster, or I step off with the rifle. Sure there is a distinct feel and sound when a round is chambered, but I will never rely on that alone for initial loading if serious business may be at hand. This is a training issue for me as well, that how I have been trained to do it, by individuals with relevant experience. The last class I attended had us done by drills in small groups more or less on our own program, no proctoring to load and make ready or any other regular administrative range commands. This was intentional to force personal accountability. Most shooters had at least one instance of a "click" when they needed "bang", self implementation of a regimented loading procedure including a press check solved this issue.

 

I agree with this.

[Penguin]

Just to clarify a bit more, since I'm at my computer and not on my phone trying to make it cooperate with writing a word fort.

 

I didn't invent this, but I really like it for a trained gun handler as a pre-combat, or pre-match stage, pre-duty check of your firearms. As taught to me most recently by Pat McNamara.

 

Pistol:

 

1.) With a loaded magazine load the pistol by inserting the magazine firmly until it clicks into place, pull on it to ensure it is seated. Run the slide back and let it go allowing the pistol to strip the top round and chamber it.

 

2.) Press check the slide back until you can see or feel the round in the chamber. The ability to feel for a round in the chamber is beneficial in low lighting conditions. Let the slide forward and bump the rear of the slide to ensure it is seated in battery. If you are running a single action pistol now is when you engage the safety, or de-cock a DA/SA pistol.

 

3.) Drop the magazine and top it back up. Reinsert magazine firmly and ensure it is securely seated.

 

4.) Press out to target in a safe direction and get a sight picture. If you have any lights or lasers now is the time to toggle them on to check for function. This last step establishes your sights, light etc are present and in working order.

 

5.) Re-reholster the pistol for the last time.

 

6.) If you are carrying spare magazines do a centerline sweep and check all your magazines to ensure they are loaded, then reinsert firmly into the mag carriers to ensure they stay put.

 

This can be accomplished very quickly but is a good way to make sure at a glance that your gear is ready to go.

 

For the rifle you do the same thing, including the sight picture to make sure any optics you have are working properly. The only real differences are on an AR you can bump the forward assist, and close the ejection port cover. To that I would add that if you are running a sling now is a good time to make sure the sling is firmly attached.

 

Just quick checks to make sure you don't eat shit at a match or even worse in a fight because of simple shit you could control beforehand. Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

 

To BDII's point about training and shooting enough to be able to feel or hear the gun functioning correctly he's right too. Obviously doing press checks in the middle of a gun fight is probably not viable, you're going to be reloading as fast as possible relying on subconscious level skill built up through repetition to let your body work while your brain tries to solve your problem. At this point you need to know what normal operation feels like and sounds like. For example you need to know the distinct feeling and sound of your pistol or rifle locking back on an empty magazine. The only way to get there is to get out and shoot, which will also tell you if your gear is worth a shit. If you have a rife or pistol that chokes all the time get rid of that bastard, whatever you decide to run it needs to feel and sound the same way all the time under normal operation. If you have magazine carriers that don't have good retention or that are hard get to, find ones that work.

[TSiWRX]

Just adding in some of what I've been taught that is slightly different, and offers alternatives - not any more right or wrong, and again, it's not my invention, either.

 

First and foremost, I'd like to add the step about verifying that your PPEs are in-place.

 

 

Pistol:

 

3.) Drop the magazine and top it back up. Reinsert magazine firmly and ensure it is securely seated.

 

For those in operational roles or otherwise do not carry loose ammo, this can be accomplished by "tac-loading" a fresh full mag or reload-with-retention a fresh full mag (with the latter, remembering to properly manage your ammo by getting it out of its quick-stow position; blending in with Penguin's step 6, below).

 

4.) Press out to target in a safe direction and get a sight picture. If you have any lights or lasers now is the time to toggle them on to check for function. This last step establishes your sights, light etc are present and in working order.

 

To go along with this is to remember to test all switchgear in the fashion that you would use them, and that, furthermore, you'll also check each and every one of your backups, too.

 

This may seem tedious or redundant, but particularly for those who wear a lot of gear to go into harms way or come out of wheeled transport to stage, there's always a chance that things can get knocked loose or wires snagged.

 

For the rifle you do the same thing, including the sight picture to make sure any optics you have are working properly. The only real differences are on an AR you can bump the forward assist, and close the ejection port cover. To that I would add that if you are running a sling now is a good time to make sure the sling is firmly attached.

 

For those who come from the school of not using the forward assist for this purpose, should one mess up that initial charging for whatever reason, simple forward finger pressure on the scallop of the BCG should allow you to bring the AR into battery. If it doesn't, don't dick around: it's time to just repeating that loading procedure again. Remember, this is an administrative task, it's time to make sure that your gun goes into the competition or fight working properly.

 

This can be accomplished very quickly but is a good way to make sure at a glance that your gear is ready to go.

 

Just quick checks to make sure you don't eat shit at a match or even worse in a fight because of simple shit you could control beforehand. Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

 

While accomplishing these tasks should be rote (and the old hats need to make sure that the newbies come to this state of familiarity), the shooter must -ALWAYS- accomplish this task in a mindful manner, to make sure that it actually meets that last part of Penguin's criteria.

 

To BDII's point about training and shooting enough to be able to feel or hear the gun functioning correctly he's right too. Obviously doing press checks in the middle of a gun fight is probably not viable, you're going to be reloading as fast as possible relying on subconscious level skill built up through repetition to let your body work while your brain tries to solve your problem. At this point you need to know what normal operation feels like and sounds like. For example you need to know the distinct feeling and sound of your pistol or rifle locking back on an empty magazine. The only way to get there is to get out and shoot, which will also tell you if your gear is worth a shit. If you have a rife or pistol that chokes all the time get rid of that bastard, whatever you decide to run it needs to feel and sound the same way all the time under normal operation.

 

To further this point, this kind of mechanical empathy is what Mike Pannone alludes to, in understanding what the gun should feel/sound like once that chamber is clear, when working stoppages in minimal visibility.

 

As Jason Falla's outfit notes, it's about getting to that state of nirvana: "Subconscious Weapons Manipulation Cold and on Demand®"

 

It might be their registered catchphrase, but that's the cold hard truth, 'cause the processing brain will have so much else to worry about , this part of it - along with marksmanship - at better be at that level of competence.

[1fast4by]

meh, its whatever

[Merc6]

When you say P80 you're talking polymer 80% right? Something has to be wrong I'd bet - I can not get any of my three glocks, my two SD9's, or M&P to fire out of battery. The M&P only needed a small amount, the glock needed more. One glocks stock, the other two have Ghost/RYG connectors, springs, and trigger stop.

 

Yeah P80 "BKA" PF940. I'm not sure what happened either, it took me lots of trouble shooting to figure out it was the connector. I drop it in the G17 and it's running flawlessly. Trigger reset feels and sounds the same but won't drop the striker. The tolerances on the P80 are tighter than a stock G17 so I would assume it could be the frame or the slide is of by just a hair to piss it off. I've been debating on eventually going V2 with metal rear rails and try again. The ejector on this group also ejects casings to the left causing them to launch at my forehead. Eventually 1 got stuck behind my glasses and left a nice burn under my eye. Firing single shot no mg the ejection is the mag well no matter how I hold it. I'm gonna run a dremel to the inside of the locking block and see if the spring is binding up on return for a split second.

[TSiWRX]

Wanted to come back to this part:

 

Obviously doing press checks in the middle of a gun fight is probably not viable....

 

^ This is key for a lot of techniques, and the press-check truly highlights it.

 

As a technique, it is designed specifically so that - as Penguin and I have repeatedly pointed out - the shooter does not get the click of an empty chamber when they're expecting a bang as they break the trigger.

 

This is why the press-check is taught to LE/military to be performed prior to heading into harm's way, and this is also why it is so stressed for both competition shooters as well as defensive shooters alike, beginning a course of fire and upon administrative loading.

 

I came back to this because I realized that I had unwittingly put up a perfect example of this when I posted up my botched end-of-day bragging-rights contest at Costa's '12 class:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAP2dfwnYSQ&feature=youtu.be

 

The setup of the contest was a fastest-run-wins framework, with no misses allowed. Five per target at 7 yards, with a forced reload between the second and third targets (two ten-round mags). There's a tempo change in the BSA template as well, with anywhere shots on the Tac-Strike Quarter-Scales being good-to-go versus eyebox only on the VTAC paper.

 

The reason why I press-checked at the make-ready was as I noted previously: I wanted to be sure I started off with an actual round in the chamber. This was among the first times that I'd ever run a "competition" stage (I'd only been shooting for about 18 months at that point), and definitely my first time performing in front of 30+ people. I knew that if I didn't do things as I'd always done, I stood a pretty good chance of messing up. And you can see that even though I tried to work things as I knew I should, I still fumbled that make-ready quite a bit.

 

And that kind of pressure is very likely what caused me to somehow manage to interfere with the slide-lock/release - twice (my slide also didn't lock back there, at the end) during this run, resulting in the gun failing to lock-back on-empty.

 

Note that although I totally forgot the setup of the forced reload (since the slide failed to lock back on empty) and thus dropped the striker on an empty chamber, I did not forget enough about the setup to have caused me to go into immediate-action at that point: i.e. I realized that I'd run dry, and instead of trying to remediate a non-existent stoppage with immediate-action, I knew instead I had to get a fresh mag in there.

 

And, of-course, I'm doing so with the intent of immediately re-engaging: thus no need for a press-check.

 

There's a place and a time to execute any technique just as there's places and times when that same technique may be completely the wrong thing to do.

Edited September 17, 2017 by TSi+WRX

[Sparkey]

Yeah P80 "BKA" PF940. I'm not sure what happened either, it took me lots of trouble shooting to figure out it was the connector. I drop it in the G17 and it's running flawlessly. Trigger reset feels and sounds the same but won't drop the striker. The tolerances on the P80 are tighter than a stock G17 so I would assume it could be the frame or the slide is of by just a hair to piss it off. I've been debating on eventually going V2 with metal rear rails and try again. The ejector on this group also ejects casings to the left causing them to launch at my forehead. Eventually 1 got stuck behind my glasses and left a nice burn under my eye. Firing single shot no mg the ejection is the mag well no matter how I hold it. I'm gonna run a dremel to the inside of the locking block and see if the spring is binding up on return for a split second.

 

Crazy - I dont quite know enough to act like I know whats going on, but very interested. The tighter tolerances should just make it shoot better like a custom Les Baer 1911

 

I've heard some glocks (cant remember what ones, wanna say early gen 3) had some that refused to properly eject. Wonder if adding an Apex ejector could solve that oddity.

[Merc6]

Crazy - I dont quite know enough to act like I know whats going on, but very interested. The tighter tolerances should just make it shoot better like a custom Les Baer 1911

 

I've heard some glocks (cant remember what ones, wanna say early gen 3) had some that refused to properly eject. Wonder if adding an Apex ejector could solve that oddity.

 

That's what I was hoping even with the better grip angle. Folks say I need about 800 rounds for it to be prefect. At this rate I will wear my Wiley-W to keep the brass out of my face. Might have a cool scar to brag about, time will tell. Truthfully I was happy it was firing and ejection this last trip. Since the trigger group doesn't like to be modified I'm possibly just going to go full drop in trigger group and the ejector will pretty much be apart of it. There was another group saying the extractor could also have a role in it not releasing right. Same slide on G17 and it's doing as it should.

[stm25rs]

[TSiWRX]

Hicks Law for Hicks!!!!

 

OK, so that could have been any of a number of my friends.

[bucko3the7man]

Started up a pistol league this week, which meant I had to go buy a 22 pistol. MkIV Hunter and I already put a Volquartsen trigger and a vortex venom red dot on it. After some sighting in this thing is damn fun to shoot. Can't say enough about the trigger kit and the red dot improving the gun, the stock rear sight was stuck on the windage adjustment and when I got it unstuck, it then wouldn't stick.

[Merc6]

Started up a pistol league this week, which meant I had to go buy a 22 pistol. MkIV Hunter and I already put a Volquartsen trigger and a vortex venom red dot on it. After some sighting in this thing is damn fun to shoot. Can't say enough about the trigger kit and the red dot improving the gun, the stock rear sight was stuck on the windage adjustment and when I got it unstuck, it then wouldn't stick.

 

Never owned but need to get a 22. Seems like the ammo is back in stock again where before it was hard to come by.

[Sparkey]

Started up a pistol league this week, which meant I had to go buy a 22 pistol. MkIV Hunter and I already put a Volquartsen trigger and a vortex venom red dot on it. After some sighting in this thing is damn fun to shoot. Can't say enough about the trigger kit and the red dot improving the gun, the stock rear sight was stuck on the windage adjustment and when I got it unstuck, it then wouldn't stick.

 

.22 was my last caliber to get. Its tied with 7.62 as my favorite to shoot.

 

Never owned but need to get a 22. Seems like the ammo is back in stock again where before it was hard to come by.

 

Right?! I started shooting the year the shelves went dry. Sucked having to stand in line for hours and ration ammo.

 

I think my next purchase needs to be a suppressor. .22 and then I want a 300 blk. Was going to last black friday - 15% off but found out it was a year wait and bought a .17 HMR instead. Maybe this year if I dont go broke with subie parts

[BDII]

Started up a pistol league this week, which meant I had to go buy a 22 pistol. MkIV Hunter and I already put a Volquartsen trigger and a vortex venom red dot on it. After some sighting in this thing is damn fun to shoot. Can't say enough about the trigger kit and the red dot improving the gun, the stock rear sight was stuck on the windage adjustment and when I got it unstuck, it then wouldn't stick.

 

I shoot a mkiii hunter competitively. It's a great platform if you can master the magazine changes.

[bucko3the7man]

I shoot a mkiii hunter competitively. It's a great platform if you can master the magazine changes.

 

What kind of competitions? I think my favorite thing about the mkIV compared to mkIII is the single button takedown for cleaning.

[BDII]

Steel plate challenge. For rimfire it's 20 plates instead of 24. 1 reload. I load a full mag, then load the chamber, then top the mag off. Saves me around 1 second on my total time since the slide doesn't always lock back. I take the top 10 plates and still have a tound in the chamber when I load my second mag and move to the bottom plate rack.

 

I ran a 16.xx second run 2 years ago.

 

If you shoot indoors where frangible is required CCI .22 copper runs like a charm. It should take down the thinner .22 rated steel plates.

 

The gun is 100% stock. I've found that for steel plates at 10 yards the rear sights are useless. I get the front orange finer optic level and pointed any where on the plate and it hits. Im not really aiming as much as its a rhythm.

 

Whats the pull on that Volquartsen trigger? I'm not a fan of anything less than 2.5lbs. Do you like the vortex?

[bucko3the7man]

Steel plate challenge. For rimfire it's 20 plates instead of 24. 1 reload. I load a full mag, then load the chamber, then top the mag off. Saves me around 1 second on my total time since the slide doesn't always lock back. I take the top 10 plates and still have a tound in the chamber when I load my second mag and move to the bottom plate rack.

 

I ran a 16.xx second run 2 years ago.

 

If you shoot indoors where frangible is required CCI .22 copper runs like a charm. It should take down the thinner .22 rated steel plates.

 

The gun is 100% stock. I've found that for steel plates at 10 yards the rear sights are useless. I get the front orange finer optic level and pointed any where on the plate and it hits. Im not really aiming as much as its a rhythm.

 

Whats the pull on that Volquartsen trigger? I'm not a fan of anything less than 2.5lbs. Do you like the vortex?

 

That sounds like a lot of fun, I would be all about that if I could find a place locally. I shoot the CCI target and the CCI ar-tactical (I think this is the copper plated stuff you were talking about). I notice a much bigger difference between those two in my 10-22 rifle, I'm a touch more accurate with the target (1070fps) rather than the tactical (1200fps) but with a pistol I haven't noticed a major difference.

 

Volquartsen accurizing kit was well worth the $120 I spent on it. 2.5lb trigger pull, and it's a big difference from the stock trigger. Also has pretravel and overtravel adjustments if you're into that kind of thing.

 

Vortex is good for the 200 or so rounds I've put through the gun with it on. lower brightness setting gives a really good dot with not much prism-like look. I put it on with the outerimpact mount, took a bit of sighting in though. Was about 18" low at 25ft initially, but now that I have it sighted in it's dead nuts.

[05GT Guru]

My .17hmr is probably my favorite gun to shoot under 100-150 yards. I wish Ruger had the .17hmr revolver out when I bought my .22mag. But I have fun with my .22mag revolver.

[TSiWRX]

Never owned but need to get a 22. Seems like the ammo is back in stock again where before it was hard to come by.

 

.22 LR is way back. They're getting down to the four-cents per range, bulk online.

[BDII]

I have 10k rounds of .22