Pro and Cons of 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid

[Nuclear]

Hello, Subaru`s brotherhood members!

As you know, I have 2004 (2005 model year in BL|BP|B13 body) Subaru Outback XT with 2,5L turbo engine (EJ255), AT

Stage is something, i think:spin:, like Stage 2,5 - full catless, 3" exhaust, equal length headers (Tomei), Grimmspeed TMIC, Deatschwerks DW65C fuel pump.

 

But, as you know and i berlieve - will understand my thoughts, one morning you get up and want want want some more power and speed.

 

What do you think about 3-Port Electronic Boost Control Solenoid made by GrimmSpeed or other manufacture?

Pro?

Cons?

Did any of you use it already?

[cryo]

Check out this write up I did a while back. You might find it useful

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/boost-controllers-and-you-mbcs-and-ebcs-220755.html

 

Dave

[whitrzac]

Cons: None.

[cryo]

Oh btw we are happy to provide you with a grimmspeed EBCS as we retail them for $109.99 plus shipping. Shoot me an email if your interested at cryotuneperformance@yahoo.com

 

Dave

[Tuning Alliance]

I prefer the perrin pro ebcs over the grimmspeed, I've noticed it helps better with waste-gate flutter. Both are solid choices.

 

You will need a tune to run one, shoot us a PM and we can get you setup with the EBCS and proper etune.

 

-Brian

[serx7]

TA: Subjectively how much of an improvement does the Perrin Pro EBCS yield over the GS? I had a GS in my VF52'd OBXT ('stock' internal WG as far as I know) and there was quite a bit of high frequency, sharp flutter seen in the boost curve and MAF toward the end of spool through to about 4k rpm, after which everything would smooth out nicely. I swapped the GS for a Company23 Anti-surge EBCS and made what appears to be appropriate changes to WGDC and TD. There is still somewhat noticeable flutter, although the 'frequency' and sharpness of the oscillations is damped out somewhat as seen in boost/MAF vs RPM plots. I've tried lowering boost targets a few psi, softening WGDC and TD so that boost would always undershoot targets, but the flutter still shows up (and is def audible w/ the GS CAI I have). Company23 requested some datalogs and upon review had indicated they would make some test firmware changes based on what they saw, but it appears they forgot about it since I haven't heard further from them in several months. A guy I know w/ a VF43 also has the C23 EBCS and his boost response is quite smooth, but he's also running an EWG.

[Tuning Alliance]

TA: Subjectively how much of an improvement does the Perrin Pro EBCS yield over the GS? I had a GS in my VF52'd OBXT ('stock' internal WG as far as I know) and there was quite a bit of high frequency, sharp flutter seen in the boost curve and MAF toward the end of spool through to about 4k rpm, after which everything would smooth out nicely. I swapped the GS for a Company23 Anti-surge EBCS and made what appears to be appropriate changes to WGDC and TD. There is still somewhat noticeable flutter, although the 'frequency' and sharpness of the oscillations is damped out somewhat as seen in boost/MAF vs RPM plots. I've tried lowering boost targets a few psi, softening WGDC and TD so that boost would always undershoot targets, but the flutter still shows up (and is def audible w/ the GS CAI I have). Company23 requested some datalogs and upon review had indicated they would make some test firmware changes based on what they saw, but it appears they forgot about it since I haven't heard further from them in several months. A guy I know w/ a VF43 also has the C23 EBCS and his boost response is quite smooth, but he's also running an EWG.

 

On my legacy I had a GS ebcs on a vf52 and I would get wastegate flutter through most of a WOT pull, went with the perrin style and I got it for .5-1 second then it stopped.

 

**I was also using a 17lb spring with turbosmart actuator, still internally gated. Running a stronger spring is def a good upgrade for you regardless so you can hold more boost through redline (no tapering)

 

-Brian

[serx7]

On my legacy I had a GS ebcs on a vf52 and I would get wastegate flutter through most of a WOT pull, went with the perrin style and I got it for .5-1 second then it stopped.

 

**I was also using a 17lb spring with turbosmart actuator, still internally gated. Running a stronger spring is def a good upgrade for you regardless so you can hold more boost through redline (no tapering)

 

-Brian

 

Thanks for the info. I see flutter for about 1.25-1.5 sec b/n 2800-3700 rpm w/ the current setup and the C23 EBCS. So maybe I'm just expecting a little too much. This question has probably been asked before, but is the VF52 blowing overly hot air above say 16+ psi way up near redline in summertime ambient temps? I can easily hold 15 psi at 6700+ rpm in mid-80F ambient and have WGDC to spare, but have been reluctant to go higher thinking that charge temps might get too hot. I have an IPR TMIC which is no GS TMIC... On the plus side, w/ the GS CAI I have some boost creep > 5.5k rpm in < 60F ambient. In the winter the creep "lets" me hold 18-18.25 psi up top against ~15.5 psi target, with 0 WGDC above 5.5k RPM

[Tuning Alliance]

Here's my last graph I have of mine. Base pull was the car on another map, but you can see the boost difference. This was also a "custom" vf52 that didn't hold up quite well, I switched to a newly rebuild oem vf52 month later.

 

-Brian

08_LGT_boost_afr_old_vs_new_tune.pdf

[Tuning Alliance]

non pdf version*

[serx7]

Thanks for the plot. Reviewing a bunch of my datalogs from the past 1+ years, it looks like boost response is decently smooth near/after threshold if I start 3rd or 4th gear pulls from around 3k rpm as well. If I start the pulls from say 2200-2500 rpm or below, things get real choppy b/n ~2800-3500 rpm and then smooth out pretty nicely by ~3800 rpm (even when deliberately softening targets/WGDC/TD). It's been this way since I've had the car, and considering I rarely go WOT below 3k rpm unless I'm datalogging, maybe I should just shut up and leave it be

[NSFW]

Pros: little better boost control

Cons: cost, cost of tuning

 

By itself it doesn't add power. Boost might come on a little quicker, but not if your previous tune was really good. Tuners like them ( myself included) because they make tuning easier.

 

Easier still is (just for the sake of completeness...) a 3-port plus an MBC wired in parallel. Results in the benefits of an MBC, but without the PTFB. Adds to cost again, but IMO the results just can't be beat and tuning is ridiculously simple.